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 winchester 748
fireball580  [Member]
10/19/2010 12:32:05 AM
was woundering what you guys think af winchester 748, i want to start reloading .223 .243 .308 i have looked at all the powders and dont know what to use.
when my dad was still alive that is what he used and we got good performance in our t/c contender now i have an ar and did not know what was the better powder i was looking to use 4064 for al three but i am just gettin burnt out on what to use thanks
GrasshopperNOmore  [Member]
10/19/2010 12:45:54 AM
748 meters like water, but others have warned about its temp sensitivity. I like 4064, but a trickler is definitely a must have when using this powder.
ArmyOrdGuy  [Member]
10/19/2010 1:06:02 AM
Reloder 15, Varget, N140, or IMR4895. These pretty well cover the .223 AR with 69 or 77 gr Sierra Matchking bullets and the .308 Winchester with 150 to 175 gr bullets.

I can't say anymore than that since you have left out so many necessary pieces of information. What barrel twist? What weight bullet? What is the ammo intended for? Are you wanting accuracy or large volumes of ammo?
What level of accuracy (the better you get, the more you pay)?

I just noticed that I ignored your first question. My personal opinion of Win 748 is that it is crap. It has a high flame temperature (as do most double based propellants) and it is temperature sensitive (again, it's a double based propellant). To add to that insult, the container claims that it has a "lower flame temperature"; however, it doesn't say what it's lower than (the surface of the sun??). It does meter very well is its one positive feature.
RIPRonReagan  [Member]
10/19/2010 1:58:19 AM
I guess you could use RL15 in all three of those cases, but you'll be giving up velocity in your .243 because the .243 likes a slower powder with the heavy bullets.

You might decide to use one powder for .223/.308 and a slower powder for .243 (something in the IMR4350 class).

cviss  [Member]
10/19/2010 8:27:50 AM
Originally Posted By GrasshopperNOmore:
748 meters like water, but others have warned about its temp sensitivity. I like 4064, but a trickler is definitely a must have when using this powder.



+1 to both statements. With the temp sensitivity it really depends also on what your trying to achieve. With a ar15 (223) and m1 in 308. i did notice the temp sensitivity issue on really hot days during High Power matches and on the practice range when it was in the 20's. If all your doing is "hunting" and not precise shooting win 748 might be a good match for you. I switched to reloader 15 and varget for the ar15 and used imr 4064 and 4895 in my m1 now.


Dan12  [Team Member]
10/19/2010 8:35:30 AM
I use 748 for my 7.62x39 sub-sonics b/c the pressure curve lets it still cycle a stock AR-15, I haven't tried it in anything else, however.
WyrTwister  [Member]
10/19/2010 12:36:00 PM
Originally Posted By fireball580:
was woundering what you guys think af winchester 748, i want to start reloading .223 .243 .308 i have looked at all the powders and dont know what to use.
when my dad was still alive that is what he used and we got good performance in our t/c contender now i have an ar and did not know what was the better powder i was looking to use 4064 for al three but i am just gettin burnt out on what to use thanks


I have a Remington Bolt gun in .308 Win that likes 748 . And 168 grain red tips .

God bless
Wyr
endersgame  [Team Member]
10/19/2010 3:27:17 PM
I have reloaded thousands of rounds of low end target practice .223 for my AR using the W748. I really like it alot. I bought some TAC after hearing alot of good things about it but have not tried it yet.

Dan1918A2  [Team Member]
10/19/2010 5:40:19 PM
Originally Posted By WyrTwister:
Originally Posted By fireball580:
was woundering what you guys think af winchester 748, i want to start reloading .223 .243 .308 i have looked at all the powders and dont know what to use.
when my dad was still alive that is what he used and we got good performance in our t/c contender now i have an ar and did not know what was the better powder i was looking to use 4064 for al three but i am just gettin burnt out on what to use thanks


I have a Remington Bolt gun in .308 Win that likes 748 . And 168 grain red tips .

God bless
Wyr


Same here.
borderpatrol  [Member]
10/19/2010 7:35:51 PM
I've used 25.0 to 25.3 grains of WW-748 when loading 69 grain Seirra Match Kings in .223 with decent results.

I've used 43.0 grains of WW-748 when loading .308 using Lake City brass and 168 grain Sierra Match Kings with very good results.

.243 needs slower powders unless you are shooting light weight varmint bullets.
dryflash3  [Moderator]
10/19/2010 9:35:25 PM
I get terrible accuracy with W-748 in 223, 7-30 Waters, 30-30 and 308. Other report good results, I will never buy another can of it.

In 223 and 308 the same powder will work well, Re-15, IMR-4895, BLC2, and Varget.

Like mentioned, 243 loves IMR-4350, which is slower burning than the previously mentioned powders.

I would suggest 2 powders or give up 200 to 300 fps in 243 if you use the 223/308 powders mentioned above.
fireball580  [Member]
10/19/2010 11:22:11 PM
right now i am thinking about 4064 just to get started my .223 is an ar with a 18 inch barrel my .243 is a savage 110 and my .308 is an m1a1 so for right now i am looking to get some .223 loaded to see what my gun likes for now then when i get more time under my belt i am going to look at other powders.

now on another note i got my hogden book with my lee press and with the .223 using 4064 it says it is a compresed load i know this is a stupid question but how do you load a compressed load?
dryflash3  [Moderator]
10/19/2010 11:42:00 PM
IMR-4064 is too slow for 223, and I got terrible accuracy when I tried it in 223.

A compressed load has a case full of powder, which is compressed when the bullet is seated.

These are not good beginner loads to learn reloading with.

Buy a suitable powder for 223, you will be doing yourself a favor.
Hatrick  [Team Member]
10/19/2010 11:46:55 PM
Originally Posted By dryflash3:
I get terrible accuracy with W-748 in 223, 7-30 Waters, 30-30 and 308. Other report good results, I will never buy another can of it.

In 223 and 308 the same powder will work well, Re-15, IMR-4895, BLC2, and Varget.

Like mentioned, 243 loves IMR-4350, which is slower burning than the previously mentioned powders.

I would suggest 2 powders or give up 200 to 300 fps in 243 if you use the 223/308 powders mentioned above.

^^
fireball580  [Member]
10/20/2010 12:21:38 AM
ok i can see the hand writing on the wall there is no universal powder for all loads so what is the best powder for 223 and 308 i want to start on 223 with a 55 gr fmj for just some plinking around but sooner or later i want to do some better target shooting and that is the same thing i want to do for 308 thanks again
PVFD304  [Team Member]
10/20/2010 6:13:26 AM
Works well for me in 223. I like it way it meters better than the stick powders.

I'm currently using 4895 in my 308.

Hatrick  [Team Member]
10/20/2010 10:44:22 AM
748 does work well for me, both 223 and 308, but you did mention that you would like a powder for 243 as well, and it does not fit the bill for that.
I use a 50 gr nosler bt over 748 for my 223 varmint loads which I get moa accuracy along with some blistering speed from a fairly short barrel. That load knocks a coyote's dick in the dirt pronto.
I also was using it in my AR-10 for a 150 gr bullet and it yielded some good speed and accuracy there as well, but I eventually switched to an extruded powder like varget.

You may want to just pick up something like Varget that will do all three calibers if needed, and grab some H4350 or imr4350 for your 243 win.
Varget is less temp sensitive than the ball powder 748, and 4350 is the best thing I have ever use in my 243's. Good luck to ya!
GreenWolf70  [Member]
10/20/2010 4:19:48 PM
From IMR's website:

"IMR 8208 XBR The latest in the versatile IMR line of fine propellants, this accurate metering, super short grained extruded rifle powder was designed expressly for match, varmint, and AR sniper cartridges. Ideally suited for cartridges like the 223 Remington/5.56mm, 308 Winchester/7.62mm NATO and the 6mm PPC, shooters will find IMR 8208 XBR totally insensitive to changes in temperature, while yielding max velocities and “tack driving” accuracy. Clearly, the competitor’s “choice” and the Varmint Hunter’s “dream powder”."


I've been hearing that this stuff is eating up the competition at bench rest matches and it is great in hunting cartridges. If I was looking for a new powder to load for the rounds you are talking about, this would be where I would start.
Hoppy  [Team Member]
10/20/2010 5:12:45 PM
748 is one of the "universal rifle powders" in my book. Although it will work for most applications it is a compromise and better results will be obtained with different powders to choose from.
BallisticTip  [Team Member]
10/20/2010 5:59:27 PM
Have been using it for many years for, 5.56, 30.30, .308, 30.06, with very good results, its what I stock for my rifles.
dryflash3  [Moderator]
10/20/2010 9:43:23 PM
Originally Posted By fireball580:
ok i can see the hand writing on the wall there is no universal powder for all loads so what is the best powder for 223 and 308 i want to start on 223 with a 55 gr fmj for just some plinking around but sooner or later i want to do some better target shooting and that is the same thing i want to do for 308 thanks again


That info was in my first post.
Mall-Ninja  [Team Member]
10/22/2010 10:04:48 AM
meters great, but I could never get it to work consistently in .308 It seemed way too temperature sensitive, and was filthy as all get out...
Smallmouth  [Member]
10/23/2010 8:39:49 PM
748 is my go to powder in the 223, I have used it in several different rifles with various bullet weights and it has always came through, I also use it in the 308 with good luck.
EWP  [Member]
10/23/2010 9:20:30 PM
RE-15 for .223 & .308, will work very well for plinking and when you get ready for match loads you won't have to swap powders since RE-15 is one of the best accuracy powders for .223 & .308

4350 for .243
carbineman  [Member]
10/23/2010 11:46:01 PM
I stock 748 and BL-C2 for .223, 30-30 and 30-06. I also have milsurp WC846(uses BL-C2 loading data) that I have used in all three. All have worked fine but I tend to use mid range load densities with lighter per caliber bullets.(130 grain) Although I like all both powders I am most impressed with BL-C2 in the 30-06 and in .the 308 where I helped my buddy develop a load. For 30-30 with 130 grain bullets 748 has been extremely accurate for me.

Nice to be able to use easy and smooth metering ball type powders.

I