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 Nodody Uses Viht N-133?
mason_winston  [Team Member]
5/9/2010 8:37:22 PM EST
Thanks for reading!

I've been looking at reloading data for the .223 Remington cartridge, in the 60 gr. to 65 gr. bullet range. Every single reloading manual I've looked at has a recommendation for VihtaVuori N-133 powder, but in the ARFCOM .223 reloading data page, and only one (!) person uses Viht powder, and that's for a 77 gr. load. Why do the books say it's good, but loaders dont use it?
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NathanL  [Member]
5/9/2010 8:41:26 PM EST
If it's like here you never see it for sale locally and has to be ordered (goes for all vihtavuori powders) etc...then it's more expensive than some other brands pound per pound. Just a casual glance shows that n-133 to be one of the most expensive powders out there just from looking on the net quickly.
ChrisGarrett  [Member]
5/9/2010 10:09:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By mason_winston:
Thanks for reading!

I've been looking at reloading data for the .223 Remington cartridge, in the 60 gr. to 65 gr. bullet range. Every single reloading manual I've looked at has a recommendation for VihtaVuori N-133 powder, but in the ARFCOM .223 reloading data page, and only one (!) person uses Viht powder, and that's for a 77 gr. load. Why do the books say it's good, but loaders dont use it?


I've got a pound of it sitting here and I'm wondering what I want to do with it. I'm a VV fan, using 140, 150, 165 and 170, with some 110 and N-540 that that I've acquired.

I have some 60gr AMAX that I might go to 133 for, but I've not really fiddled with it.

VV powders are top shelf. The Finns know their weapons and ammo. Lapua bullets are also in the top tier.

Chris

Silly_Look  [Team Member]
5/9/2010 11:14:06 PM EST
N-140 and N-350 user here. Love the Vihtavuori powders.
borderpatrol  [Member]
5/10/2010 4:27:41 AM EST
Benchrester's hog it all up, so it's hard to come by. N-133 is one of the best powders for 52/53 grain match loads in .223.
dryflash3  [Team Member]
5/10/2010 5:40:20 AM EST
I have never used VihtaVuori powder due to the cost.

Why pay more when other powders work so well?

I'm sure it's great stuff, just not for this bargin hunter.
1911smith  [Team Member]
5/10/2010 7:50:16 AM EST
N-133 is what I use for .223 Sierra loads. Sorry no chrono data as of yet. No chrono either, other toys keep getting in the way.
mason_winston  [Team Member]
5/10/2010 8:04:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By borderpatrol:
N-133 is one of the best powders for 52/53 grain match loads in .223.


Taking this quote into mind, would N-135 be a better powder for 60 to 65 gr. loads?

Thanks to everyone for the responses. I'm new to reloading, and reading all of my books/data sheets revealed that most of the 60-65 gr. loads listed both N-133 and N-135 as recommend powders. Cost is certainly a concern, but I want to investigate everything fully before I buy my first group (probably 3 or 4) of powders. Right now, I'm leaning towards IMR-4895, Winchester 748, H335, and one of the Viht powders - either N-133 or N-135.

Lakemoor  [Team Member]
5/10/2010 9:15:44 AM EST
I would have like 135 for the heavier pills but when I ordered all they had was 133. N133 is great for my 55gr blasting ammo. I know what a waste but at the time I was out of H335 as were all the vendors.

N133 runs much cleaner than H335. Don't know why but I guess it's the Finish pixie dust

edit: For a 8lb jug N133 is little over $30 more than H335. If the vendors had H335 I'd would have stuck with it.
50cal  [Team Member]
5/10/2010 9:25:42 AM EST
I use N-133 for a lot of my .223 loads. Mostly bolt guns though. 1 of my AR's loves it with 55g Ballistic Tips. The others love Varget.
JamesP81  [Team Member]
5/10/2010 9:52:41 AM EST
Originally Posted By mason_winston:
Thanks for reading!

I've been looking at reloading data for the .223 Remington cartridge, in the 60 gr. to 65 gr. bullet range. Every single reloading manual I've looked at has a recommendation for VihtaVuori N-133 powder, but in the ARFCOM .223 reloading data page, and only one (!) person uses Viht powder, and that's for a 77 gr. load. Why do the books say it's good, but loaders dont use it?


Because it costs about 40% more than other powders.

My LGS stocks it. I will try some eventually.
borderpatrol  [Member]
5/10/2010 5:37:59 PM EST
If you buy 8lb. jugs the price is more reasonable. At $30.00 or more for a 1lb. bottle I have to pass. My local powder distributor was selling me dusty 2lb. bottles of N-540 for $44.00 out the door. I guess nobody ever heard of it around here and so there it sat.

8lbs. loads over 1000 .223 and if it works better and burns cleaner I can absorb something like .03 cents more per round. They are great powders and I'm kind of surprised more people didn't try them over the course of the last year and a half out of desperation.

N-140 is equal to or better than any other powder available for .223 shooting bullets weighing 68 or more grains. Actually N-530 was specifically developed for 5.56mm but it's price is even higher than the 100 series. N-540 has given me stellar accuracy with 77 and heavier bullets. So it's another option.

The USAMU originally was using a stout charge of Viht N-135 with 80 grain Sierra's for the 600 yard stage of the NM course. They still run Viht powders the last I heard, using the N-140 and N-540 which can more easily handle the 80 grain bullets.

The reason people haven't flocked to it is only partly the cost. Most stores don't stock it. People tend to stick with their old stand-bys. Whenever it does appear online it sells out quickly. People loathe to drop $200 on a powder they have no experience with. As already stated we have many powders, at least six work well for heavy bullets in .223, are routinely available, cheaper and people are familiar with them.

I can get excellent results using heavy bullets and;

VihtaVuori N-140
VihtaVuori N-540
VihtaVuori N-150 (in barrels 24" or longer)
Varget
Reloder-15
H-4895
VihtaVuori N-135

People who prefer ball powders can add several more to the list. Virtually all of the other powders are more commonly available. I see several places had N-140 in stock today (Sinclair International). For people like me who prefer stick powders like me, the VihtaVuori brand has very fine grains which allows it to be thrown from a measure. So they have a lot going for them.
JamesP81  [Team Member]
5/10/2010 6:45:51 PM EST
VV is also well known to burn cleaner and produce less flash. A lot of guys who load really hot, nasty loads in 357 magnum, 44 magnum, and other large caliber hand cannon cartridges really like the VV powders because they get much less flash with it than others.
waawaaweenie  [Team Member]
5/14/2010 7:06:55 PM EST
I bought a 8 lb jug of N135 last year when I could not get h 335 or Varget

still have not tried it

I am getting a chronometer next month and will be loading some of it up

I think I got it for .308 also
Zoomer302  [Member]
5/15/2010 4:35:44 AM EST
As said it is The go to powder for Benchrest guys. My FIL buys 64 lbs at a time. He wants the same lot # to load all
season. He runs it in a 6mmPPC (national competitor) and it's capable of incredibly small group sizes (read 10 to 20 thousandths).

I get it from him as B'day present and the like. It is the powder responsible for my most accurate load out of my AR.
Not surprisingly, best accuracy w/my gun come from 50-55 grain pills, and I run it with around 25 grains of
Vit N-133
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