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 Remington 6 1/2 primers no good for use with .223 round?
MillerSHO  [Member]
8/12/2009 12:07:34 PM
A local sporting goods store finally got some primers in but instead of getting the usual winchester or cci primers they had remmington primers.

So after 800 of them I get home and realize in very small print on the side of the boxes it says:
" Do not use 6 1/2 small rifle primers in high intensity rifle cartridges such as .17 rem, .222 rem and .223 rem, as damage can occur to firearm or persons".

What's the point of selling these primers?
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ma96782  [Team Member]
8/12/2009 12:50:06 PM
You have a .30 Carbine?
_____________

Actually.......I sort of agree. IF I were Remington..........I'd be thinking about consolidating my product line to just.........

Large Rifle and Pistol........both in Std and Mag
Small Rifle and Pistol........both in Std and Mag
SG primers

That should cover most reloaders needs very well.

Aloha, Mark

Doernuth  [Member]
8/12/2009 1:14:49 PM
It is my understanding that the rem 6 1/2 primers are 'soft' and increase the risk of slamfires. That is the only diference.

I personally use cci or wolf in my 223 but many on here have claimed to use 6 1/2's with no ill efects.
MillerSHO  [Member]
8/12/2009 1:23:21 PM
Originally Posted By ma96782:
You have a .30 Carbine?
_____________

Actually.......I sort of agree. IF I were Remington..........I'd be thinking about consolidating my product line to just.........

Large Rifle and Pistol........both in Std and Mag
Small Rifle and Pistol........both in Std and Mag
SG primers

That should cover most reloaders needs very well.

Aloha, Mark



That was my overall point, with this thread. Why have so many?

They even had small rifle "bench" primers so I assumed those would be the soft ones.

Turns out they both are.
ma96782  [Team Member]
8/12/2009 1:27:21 PM
You could use the Rem 6 1/2 for .233 re-loads...........but, what happens when you've loaded say a 1000 of your favorite loads in .223 Rem.

And, you go to the range and you start getting pierced primers and/or flattened primers and/or cratered primer and/or ruin your firing pin, etc.......(you get the picture)........

You wanna pull down all of the other rounds?

OK.....maybe you'll just "experiment" with a small batch first. And, maybe that will work for you.

Or......you could just use them for those reloads that aren't so "hi-pressure."

Or......you could (possibly) return them now and maybe make some other reloader happy.

Aloha, Mark

PS........I forgot about Bench Rest and Military Spec. primers. YMWV.......as to IF you believe it's worth it. But, I suspect that some of it is just marketing and hey, IF I could get more money and create brand loyalty. Why not?


steel_shooter72  [Member]
8/12/2009 1:30:47 PM
I bought some newer winchester primers before I had my AR. They are also not recomended by several sources for use in the AR for risk of slam fire due to thinner material. I have shot about 300 of them so far with no problem. But I am still nervous about using them in competition for fear of a slam fire which could easily be a DQ.
ma96782  [Team Member]
8/12/2009 1:34:32 PM
Originally Posted By steel_shooter72:
I bought some newer winchester primers before I had my AR. They are also not recomended by several sources for use in the AR for risk of slam fire due to thinner material. I have shot about 300 of them so far with no problem. But I am still nervous about using them in competition for fear of a slam fire which could easily be a DQ.


Some have mentioned that the Winchester thing is more about the new vs. old stocks of Winchester Primers.

I only have the old stuff.

So, would I buy the new stuff?

Hummm????
___________________

Now, IF I were in competition with Winchester........what IF.........I spread a story that the new Winchester primers were prone to "slam fire?"

Humm???

And, I'm NOT saying that anyone is a lier who has had that problem w/ Winchester primers and I'm NOT claiming that the competition is responsible either.

Wait, my tin foil hat needs adjustment.

And consider.........what did we all use before there was a "military spec primer?" Was it "slam fire city" all the way around?
___________________

Then, I suspect that some people do not seat their primers properly.

Primer Seating Depth


From the Speer manual..........


Repriming is a simple, but critical, step that reloaders often do not give enough attention to. In order to gain optimum primer sensitivity, it must be seated firmly to the bottom of the primer pocket. But this doesn't mean using so much force that the primer cup is deformed. When primers are properly seated, the top of the primer is from .005" to .008" below flush with the case head. The purpose of this is to assure that the primer anvil legs are in firm contact with the bottom of the primer pocket. If they are not so seated, it requires an average of 59% greater firing pin blow to give reliable ignition. This much extra force simply isn't available in many firearms.

Analysis of hundreds of handload misfires complaints show that the vast majority are caused by insufficient primer seating.



You can check............by running your finger along the bottoms of your cases. You'll learn the "feel of the primers" as they should be seated below flush.



If, after completing the reloading operation, you discover some rounds with high primers, do not attempt to reseat the primer in a loaded round. To do so is extremely hazardous! The chance of a primer firing during proper seating is extremely remote. Yet, if it does, it will ignite the powder in the case and you have a home-made "grenade" right before you.

If high primers are discovered, remove both bullet and powder charge from the case before attempting to reseat the primer! There is no safe alternative.


HTH

Aloha, Mark

lonewolf223  [Member]
8/12/2009 1:59:26 PM
A "friend" gave me 1000 Rem 6 1/2's.

I didn't know back then (1998-99) about 6 1/2 having issues with 223.

I loaded some with 24.5 g of AA2230 and got piercings. So I backed off
to 23.0 and have had no problems.

I haven't shot that stuff in about 6 years, so I can't say that some loads
down the line won't have piercings.

I would say never use 6 1/2 at all in 223 just to be safe and to keep your
firing pin from having to be replaced.

I have it in the back of my head that that "friend" was trying to screw me, but
will never know for sure: I can't say that he knew about that issue, perhaps
he found out after he bought them, and gave me those primers so I would f*ck up one of my rifles...

Some people are definitely EVIL....
ma96782  [Team Member]
8/12/2009 2:00:51 PM
LOL, That's funny........

EVILLLLLL............

Aloha, Mark


RedFalconBill  [Team Member]
8/12/2009 2:13:37 PM
Originally Posted By MillerSHO:
A local sporting goods store finally got some primers in but instead of getting the usual winchester or cci primers they had remmington primers.

So after 800 of them I get home and realize in very small print on the side of the boxes it says:
" Do not use 6 1/2 small rifle primers in high intensity rifle cartridges such as .17 rem, .222 rem and .223 rem, as damage can occur to firearm or persons".

What's the point of selling these primers?


The point is that they are for .218 Bee, 22 Hornet, 25-20, etc...

The cup thickness between the 6 1/2 and the 7 1/2 is 0.005" (0.020" vs. 0.025").

The Remington 6 1/2's behave a lot like the newer, non plated, Winchester primers.

Keep your loads to the light side and you will be fine in rifles. If you are ham handed with the powder scale you will not like the results.

Lastly, if you shoot 9x19's in carbines, a lever gun in .357 Magnum, or a single shot .357 Maximum, you could experiment with the 6 1/2's.
MillerSHO  [Member]
8/12/2009 2:32:24 PM
Originally Posted By RedFalconBill:
Originally Posted By MillerSHO:
A local sporting goods store finally got some primers in but instead of getting the usual winchester or cci primers they had remmington primers.

So after 800 of them I get home and realize in very small print on the side of the boxes it says:
" Do not use 6 1/2 small rifle primers in high intensity rifle cartridges such as .17 rem, .222 rem and .223 rem, as damage can occur to firearm or persons".

What's the point of selling these primers?


The point is that they are for .218 Bee, 22 Hornet, 25-20, etc...

The cup thickness between the 6 1/2 and the 7 1/2 is 0.005" (0.020" vs. 0.025").

The Remington 6 1/2's behave a lot like the newer, non plated, Winchester primers.

Keep your loads to the light side and you will be fine in rifles. If you are ham handed with the powder scale you will not like the results.

Lastly, if you shoot 9x19's in carbines, a lever gun in .357 Magnum, or a single shot .357 Maximum, you could experiment with the 6 1/2's.


Thx
AeroE  [Moderator]
8/12/2009 4:44:03 PM
We've had this same question several times with the recent shortages.

Look for load data that includes the chamber pressure. Start loads for .223 Rem will run in the range of 38000 to 40000 psi, which is similar to the maximum pressure for .22 Hornet; use those.
haLfLiFe  [Member]
8/12/2009 6:51:43 PM
That sucks, and I just bought 4k of them
RedFalconBill  [Team Member]
8/12/2009 7:00:21 PM
Originally Posted By haLfLiFe:
That sucks, and I just bought 4k of them


DOH!!
MillerSHO  [Member]
8/13/2009 12:34:17 PM
Originally Posted By haLfLiFe:
That sucks, and I just bought 4k of them


That's what you get for buying primers without me.

I thought we where in this together?
haLfLiFe  [Member]
8/13/2009 1:16:48 PM
Originally Posted By MillerSHO:
Originally Posted By haLfLiFe:
That sucks, and I just bought 4k of them


That's what you get for buying primers without me.

I thought we where in this together?


ROFL...

We are in it together, remember when I stopped by there and picked them up I called you

Isn't that in it together
EWP  [Member]
8/13/2009 1:58:42 PM
Dont know about the 6 1/2's but the 7 1/2 BR primers are GTG, they are plenty hard and are in many load manuals for .223 and 5.56 loads and I love them( just bought 4K to use in my AR instead of the CCI 400 I was using (got 2K of them left) but I also have 7K CCI #41's I use for hot Ball powder loads and all my 6.8 loads.

So if the store you got them (6 1/2's) from has the Rem BR primers (7 1/2) see if you can take them back and exchange them for the BR primers since they are GTG in an AR.
MillerSHO  [Member]
8/13/2009 2:02:38 PM
Originally Posted By haLfLiFe:
Originally Posted By MillerSHO:
Originally Posted By haLfLiFe:
That sucks, and I just bought 4k of them


That's what you get for buying primers without me.

I thought we where in this together?


ROFL...

We are in it together, remember when I stopped by there and picked them up I called you

Isn't that in it together


You didn't say anything about getting more then the limit at a time.
Cause I know you didn't get 4K of small rifle 4 boxes at a time.
EWP  [Member]
8/13/2009 2:59:39 PM
Rem 6 1/2's have a cup thickness .020" just like a CCI 400, but the Rem 7 1/2's have a cup thickness of .025" just like the CCI 450 & BR4 which I think is what the #41's are also but I am not sure.

The WSR SR primers have a cup thickness of .021" but are made from a softer metal than the Rem and CCI primers, this is why they are not recommended for use in SA rifles with floating firing pins.
haLfLiFe  [Member]
8/13/2009 4:10:23 PM
Originally Posted By MillerSHO:
Originally Posted By haLfLiFe:
Originally Posted By MillerSHO:
Originally Posted By haLfLiFe:
That sucks, and I just bought 4k of them


That's what you get for buying primers without me.

I thought we where in this together?


ROFL...

We are in it together, remember when I stopped by there and picked them up I called you

http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/smiley_confused.gif[/img]
Isn't that in it together[img]http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_shock.gif[/img]


You didn't say anything about getting more then the limit at a time. [img]http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/smiley_smartass.gif[/img]
Cause I know you didn't get 4K of small rifle 4 boxes at a time.


3 Trips total to get 4K, I called you the first time I saw them on the shelves and you brushed it off like you didn't need any that bad....[img]
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