AR15.Com Archives
 RCBS Primer Pocket Swager Combo VS Dillon Super Swage 600
brentwal  [Team Member]
7/19/2008 2:05:34 PM
Leave the koolaid in the frig, prove to me why the Dillon's worth 3.5 times more. I can buy two RCBS's one for large primers and one for small, a 2pc FL rifle die set and still have change left over for lunch.





jmart  [Member]
7/19/2008 2:10:38 PM
From what I understand, ease of use. What's your sanity worth?

I use a Hornady reamer, I cut my crimps away. Use one of those and you have even more sheckels yet leftover.
MonkTx  [Team Member]
7/19/2008 3:09:34 PM
I have both and prefer the RCBS unit for rifle brass. I can go faster with it and not tear up brass since it's already placed on the swaging spud. You can also develop a "feel" for how much to swage with the RCBS unit for uniformity that you don't get with the Dillon with all it's leverage.

For pistol brass, I prefer the Dillon, just easier to get your fingers in and out quick without crushing them.

ETA: If you go with the RCBS, order some extra guide rods(or whetever they're called). If you use it a lot, you will bend those rods occasionally.
airgun1  [Team Member]
7/19/2008 3:21:27 PM
I have the RCBS and have used it heavily. There is no benefit to having two. Each headstamp usually requires it's own adjustment anyhow; the difference between large and small pockets is as quick as changing shell holders. The RCBS is easier to do .224 neck sizes when using fired brass, not resized.
mcwheeler  [Member]
7/19/2008 3:31:31 PM

Originally Posted By brentwal:
Leave the koolaid in the frig, prove to me why the Dillon's worth 3.5 times more. I can buy two RCBS's one for large primers and one for small, a 2pc FL rifle die set and still have change left over for lunch.

www.midwayusa.com/mediasvr.dll/highresimage?saleitemid=%20+%20447022

www.dillonprecision.com/uimages//Super_Swage_600.jpg


Neither, I went with the Hornady Primer Pocket reamer and couldn't be happier:) I reload a few hundred rounds per month and it works great. High volume reloaders might prefer the Dillon Super Swage, but for my needs I will never be able to justify a $100 purchase over an $8 one.
ChrisGarrett  [Member]
7/19/2008 7:12:45 PM
I've also used the Hornady reamers, both Lg/Sm. First by hand...but now I just screw them on my RCBS Trim Mate and go to town. Not as fast as the Dillon or RCBS, I'd wager, but I use a 550b prorgressive and so the RCBS isn't an option for me.

I was thinking about getting the Dillon, but I'm not buying a lot of MilSurp brass these days and what I do scrounge from the range, isn't a whole heck of a lot, so I'll continue to use the powdered Trim Mate.

On a side note, you can chuck the Hornady bit into a cordless drill, tie a knotted string around the trigger and then take a dinner knife and twist the loop to tighten it against the trigger to a proper speed and then let the knife settle down against the pistol grip and body of the drill, so the loop remains taught. This might take some of the wrist work out of using a hand reamer.

I use the above method with my Sinclair pocket uniformers and it works pretty well, faster than the Trim Mate would do, for the same task, I'd gather.

Chris
AssaultRifler  [Team Member]
7/19/2008 7:52:26 PM
If you have only a progressive press the RCBS swager wont work for you.
rg1  [Member]
7/19/2008 8:04:06 PM
I've swaged a few thousand .223 and around a thousand 30-06 cases with the RCBS swage tool in my RockChucker press. The only negative thing I can think of is it takes some banging on the press handle both up and down for tightly crimped pockets. It would take more physical effort to operate than the Dillon. Maybe I've been lucky but I haven't bent any swage rods yet. I can see that the Dillon tool seems easier and faster to operate but it does cost considerably more and the swage only has to be removed just once. The case stripper that goes over the end of the ram on mine is 1" inside diameter so it wouldn't work with larger diameter rams. I've read that some use a little case lube on the swager and that does make sense as tight crimps require me to pop the handle pretty hard to totally remove the crimp plus the punch sticks in the pocket and requires a pop on the upstroke to strip the case. I'm satisfied with the performance and value of the RCBS Swager.
brentwal  [Team Member]
7/19/2008 8:11:18 PM

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
If you have only a progressive press the RCBS swager wont work for you.


I have a Rockchucker
dryflash3  [Team Member]
7/19/2008 8:53:00 PM
I have both. The Dillon is faster, and easier to use. Parts don't bend.

I use the swage part of the RCBS swager as a go gauge for the primer pocket, the rest of the parts sit in the box.

See the tutorial on swaging primer pockets at the top of the page for this technique.

You can do just fine with the RCBS swager.

Just never try your buddies Dillon, you will want one.
GoVol98  [Member]
7/19/2008 9:43:09 PM
My RCBS swager does just fine, and economical too. Only problem I had with it were the instructions...RCBS must have hired the same chinese interpreter that works for HarborFreight tools to write them.

I have no idea how some folks bend the rods, unless you're jumping up and down on the press handle like a 300 lb. monkey on crack.
n8pgp  [Member]
7/19/2008 10:16:24 PM
I use the RCBS in my Rockchucker, I also use a little lube on the spud, just spritz a little on my finger and every 3-4 rounds I rub my finger on the spud, works nice.
people bend the swaging rod by NOT sorting thier brass, or have a stray piece. the primer web/case bases of different manufacturers are different thicknesses, so if you set the swage up for a thin web, then swage a thick web...bent rod.
The instructions are clear, if you can translate translated Mongolian/Dutch!
Wingman26  [Team Member]
7/19/2008 11:53:12 PM
I used the RCBS swager for 30 years, it was a serious pain in the ass to use, slow as molasses and not particularly good at its job. After reading all the positive comments about the Dillon I finally broke down and got one, I've been kicking myself ever since! Why in the heck did I wait all those years to get the Dillon? It is so much faster and easier to use than the RCBS there really is no comparison, the only thing the RCBS is good for is collecting dust on the shelf.
slapshot308  [Member]
7/20/2008 12:15:59 AM
None of the above. Put a standard deburr/chamfer tool in a drill press and use the deburr side to eat the crimp. You can go as fast as you can pick up the next case. I've done enough 5.56, 7.62, and Cal. .30 to know that it's not only the cheapest but also the fastest.
dryflash3  [Team Member]
7/20/2008 5:35:23 AM

Originally Posted By slapshot308:
None of the above. Put a standard deburr/chamfer tool in a drill press and use the deburr side to eat the crimp. You can go as fast as you can pick up the next case. I've done enough 5.56, 7.62, and Cal. .30 to know that it's not only the cheapest but also the fastest.


Unless you have tried the Dillon, I don't believe you are factoring in finger fatigue with the drill press.

Also you can cut the chamfer too deep, unless you are using the stop, then there goes your speed with the drill press. BTDT.
ma96782  [Team Member]
7/20/2008 5:44:20 AM
You like the RCBS.............so be it.

You like the Dillon.............so be it.

I like the reamer method................so be it.

______________________________________________

That being said.............

IMHO, the RCBS style of dealing with the military primer pocket crimp is too slow for my taste. YMWV.

Aloha, Mark
Renn  [Member]
7/20/2008 8:12:01 AM
HAVING BOTH I SAY GO FOR THE DILON. EASIER TO USE.
GHPorter  [Team Member]
7/20/2008 8:34:00 AM
Rate is the biggest factor between the two. The RCBS swager is relatively slow to use, while the Dillon can be much quicker, even given a similar processing setup. They both require a bit of fiddling to get them set for the brass you're processing, but the Dillon swager is built with a simplified workflow in mind. Following the instructions, it can be much, much quicker to get the brass into and out of, and the leverage from that cam is awesome! With both, it's not a bad idea to slide a little lube on the spud now and then to make it easier to remove the brass from it.
COSteve  [Team Member]
7/20/2008 1:57:02 PM

Originally Posted By Renn:
HAVING BOTH I SAY GO FOR THE DILON. EASIER TO USE. Having both I say go for the Dillon. Easier to use.

I agree.

Also, the RCBS approach is a useless approach for us progressive reloader with shellplates on our presses because it won't work with a progressive.
RatShooter  [Team Member]
7/20/2008 2:47:34 PM
I think part of the choice is how much brass you process. I started off with the RCBS and it does work, but I found it to be slow for the amount I had to do.
I invested in the Dillon for speed and ease of use. I swaged approximately 1500 LC cases yesterday afternoon and am working on the flash holes today. I do brass by batches so the Dillon is the way to go for me.

I set a large flat tray set behind the swager. I place brass on the anvil rod and flip it down. Then handle down while grabbing another piece. Handle up, hit the trip lever on the anvil and brass flips off into tray, repeat. Super fast swaging once I got it worked out.

So it depends on how fast you want to go and how much you have to do, but the Dillon swage is a fine piece of tooling that's well worth it in my opinion.
We-rBorg  [Member]
7/20/2008 9:05:45 PM
There's no comparison between the two if you do a lot of brass.
I had both, but after I got the Dillon, I gave the RCBS away.
I've done cases by 1k lots, with the RCBS you're talking several hours of slamming the handle down getting the brass off the spud with the RCBS.
With the Dillon you're talking less than an hour, without slamming the handle.
But, then it depends on how much you intend to do.
'Borg
NVGdude  [Member]
7/20/2008 9:25:01 PM
If you have to swage several thousand pieces a year, then the Dillon is probably worth it. Otherwise go with the RCBS.

I've never had any problems with the RCBS unit.
Blacktail-8541  [Member]
7/20/2008 10:59:39 PM
I bought a dillon to use from the beginning. Glad I did.
thebeekeeper1  [Site Staff]
7/21/2008 2:35:37 AM
I have and use both. For quantities, as mentioned above, the Dillon is the only way to go. For the odd few, or small batches, I use the RCBS, as it is faster to set up (using the Hornady LNL bushing on a Rock Chucker).

You will NOT bend the rod if you don't allow the press to cam over. There is no need for the press to cam over to get the job done.
slapshot308  [Member]
7/21/2008 12:43:59 PM

Originally Posted By dryflash3:

Originally Posted By slapshot308:
None of the above. Put a standard deburr/chamfer tool in a drill press and use the deburr side to eat the crimp. You can go as fast as you can pick up the next case. I've done enough 5.56, 7.62, and Cal. .30 to know that it's not only the cheapest but also the fastest.


Unless you have tried the Dillon, I don't believe you are factoring in finger fatigue with the drill press.

Also you can cut the chamfer too deep, unless you are using the stop, then there goes your speed with the drill press. BTDT.


I used to own a Dillon 600 (gave it to a friend when he started reloading 5.56). Haven't had a problem with finger fatigue but understand where it could be a problem. I only do 250-350 cases at a time so if you're really into brass processing then I see where your fingers might start to get crampy. But I don't use a He-Man grip on the case either, no need to.

I do use the stop and speed if just fine. Run the handle with the right hand, grab/hold case with the left hand. I have a capture bucket (plastic coffee can) under the bore through hole that the case gets dumped into when done. Takes 4-6 seconds or a little less a case.

I chamfer/deburr on the press too using the stop to control depth. Best reloading investment (and one of the cheapest, press with a 9/16" chuck cost me $35 new 8 years ago) that I have ever made.
SteelTalon  [Member]
7/21/2008 6:34:49 PM
Brentwal

I started with the RCBS tool and after a few years moved to the dillion

If you only have to swage a few at a time the RCBS is the way to go, You must pay close attention to the RCBS rod you can easily bendit...Plus pinching the crap out of your fingers is common

If you have alot of brass to swage 1k+++++++++ the Dillion is really the way to go. Once set up the Dillons production is FAST.

ST
bigdb1  [Team Member]
7/21/2008 6:48:02 PM
Best is to pick up the RCBS unit used for a couple of bucks and have a friend with deep pockets that went Dillon.

That way, if'n you gotta have a box or so tonight you can bust out your RCBS, but if'n you gotta run 577, you can borrow your bud's Dillon.
Firecop203  [Member]
7/21/2008 8:44:47 PM
I have both and like the Dillon better.

I had another idea that would combine both. Remove the shaft from the dillon and have a machinest create another shaft with the end being the same as the RCBS unit.