AR15.Com Archives
 Trick for 9mm resizing?
NateTheShake  [Member]
5/6/2008 10:11:54 AM
I have been reloading 9X19mm rounds for my suppressed 9mm platforms for a few months now. One issue I keep coming back to is the large amount of "throwaway" brass I get after decapping/resizing the brass. I have a case gauge, but I have found that specifically with my Lone Wolf barrel for my Glock the chamber is even tighter and rounds that fit the case gauge will flat out get stuck with at least 1/8" of the case sticking out of the barrel. I'd say it's a solid 1:5 ratio of bad:good cases. I have tried several different cases and have gotten the same results... worse with CBC brass. All of the brass is once fired.

I have set up the decapping/resizing die per manufacturer instructions.

Here is my setup:

RCBS Rock Chucker
RCBS 3-piece Carbide Dies
RCBS Shellholder

Is this normal? To have so many rounds that won't properly chamber? I check each one and throw the ones that don't fit into the scrap bucket, but it seems excessive.

Is there any sort of trick to getting these sized correctly?

Keep in mind I've only been reloading for a few months so any insight is greatly appreciated. I just hate throwing away around 20% of my brass.
Paid Advertisement
--
Scalce  [Member]
5/6/2008 10:17:24 AM
Did the instructions tell you to raise the ram, screw the die until it touches, lower the ram, and give it another 1/2 turn?

Range pickups that have been fired in a stock Glock barrel can be bulged at the bottom.
We-rBorg  [Member]
5/6/2008 10:36:46 AM
Do you have the same issues with just the sized brass, no belling?
If you do, lighten up on the crimp.
'Borg
ETA,, also look at some of the rounds that didn't fit all the way and see if you can use a felt tipped pen to color part of the bullet and the case all the way down, then chamber it and see where it removes the ink.
ma96782  [Team Member]
5/6/2008 10:51:51 AM



I have set up the decapping/resizing die per manufacturer instructions.



What brand press and dies?

Aloha, Mark
NateTheShake  [Member]
5/6/2008 11:36:55 AM

Originally Posted By Ma96782:
What brand press and dies?


RCBS Rock Chucker
RCBS 3 piece Carbide 9mm Dies


Originally Posted By Scalce:
Did the instructions tell you to raise the ram, screw the die until it touches, lower the ram, and give it another 1/2 turn?


It is set up according to the RCBS manual:

"Thread the sizer die into the press until the die touches the shell holder when the ram is at the top of the press stroke. Raise the press handle and turn the die down another one-eigth to one-quarter of a turn and set the large lock ring. If you're using a carbide sizer die, make slight contact with the bottom of the die and the shell holder."

I am using carbide dies so they are set up to slightly contact the shell holder.


Originally Posted By Scalce:
Range pickups that have been fired in a stock Glock barrel can be bulged at the bottom.


Looking at the primer strikes, a lot of the brass looks to have been fired from a Glock. Also I use some of the cases from WWB when I shoot, which are mostly fired from a Glock. This could be the issue right here.


Originally Posted By We-rBorg:
Do you have the same issues with just the sized brass, no belling?
If you do, lighten up on the crimp.
'Borg
ETA,, also look at some of the rounds that didn't fit all the way and see if you can use a felt tipped pen to color part of the bullet and the case all the way down, then chamber it and see where it removes the ink.


There are only about 1 or 2 that won't fit after seating/crimping out of every 100.

I like the idea of marking the brass, I will give it a shot and see if there is anything I can deduce from the results.


I have a feeling it's from using once fired brass from a Glock. I'm going to try sizing a group of once fired out of another platform and then once fired just from a Glock. Good old Occam's Razor throws out most of the other variables.


Thanks for the quick replies guys!
COSteve  [Team Member]
5/6/2008 11:55:35 AM
A simple fix is to buy a $28 set of Lee Deluxe Carbide dies. I shoot 40sw, .45acp, and 10mm and use them for all three. When adjusted correctly, the dies return the brass to the correct diameter all the way down to the rim.

As an example, my G22 (40sw) has a stock Glock barrel in it while my 10mm has a tight KKM match chambered barrel. Both the 40sw and 10mm cases measure 0.421" dia. when new. After a trip through the Lee resizing/decapping dies, they both measure 0.421 dia. and will slide into my KKM with equal ease.
ma96782  [Team Member]
5/6/2008 12:11:43 PM
ASSUMING that it's not a firearm problem........

When properly adjusted and using the right equipment...........from what you said: RCBS Rockchucker and RCBS Dies..........well, I've used that combo many times to re-load ammo for my pistols and my 9mm Colt Carbine.

Then again, unless, it's as you said, the brass came from a Glock (I've never owned one) and maybe that is a contributor to the "problem?" Well, maybe and maybe not.

Humm.......IF, it's a re-size problem.......

The brass may have buldged at the web area where it's unsupported by the barrel chamber, just enough to be a problem. The carbide doughnut because of the way it's made cannot re-size all the way to the top edge of the extractor groove of the brass, before the shell holder contacts the die body. That's just the way it is.

To illustrate, try re-sizing a candle smoked case. See, how it doesn't re-size all the way down to the extractor groove?

A different brand of carbide die might be the soulution. And/or getting a regular steel re-size die might help. But, you'll have to lube the cases. The point is......to get the re-sizing "all the way down there."

Or, your firearm may have to be modified to get it to function 100%.

Aloha, Mark

CherokeeT  [Member]
5/6/2008 12:34:58 PM
I suspect its hanging up on the base. I had a problem in that my RCBS die was not sizing down far enough on the base so I milled some of the top off the shell holder, screwed the die down some more and that solved the problem. Sometimes it does not take much.
thebeekeeper1  [Site Staff]
5/6/2008 1:08:01 PM

Originally Posted By Scalce:
Did the instructions tell you to raise the ram, screw the die until it touches, lower the ram, and give it another 1/2 turn?



That will almost certainly break the carbide ring out of any carbide die.

Carbide dies are to be adjusted with just a thousandth of two of daylight between the bottom of the die and the shellholder when the ram is fully raised. Failure to do so will result in the user ranting on the internet about the "crappy" die from XXX company, and demanding it be replaced--so he can repeat.
NateTheShake  [Member]
5/6/2008 1:36:52 PM

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

Originally Posted By Scalce:
Did the instructions tell you to raise the ram, screw the die until it touches, lower the ram, and give it another 1/2 turn?



That will almost certainly break the carbide ring out of any carbide die.

Carbide dies are to be adjusted with just a thousandth of two of daylight between the bottom of the die and the shellholder when the ram is fully raised. Failure to do so will result in the user ranting on the internet about the "crappy" die from XXX company, and demanding it be replaced--so he can repeat.


That's how my die is set up. The shell holder just barely contacts the die. Actually, I could probably fit a piece of paper between the shell holder and the die so I guess it doesn't exactly "touch" the die.
AssaultRifler  [Team Member]
5/6/2008 1:51:47 PM
does the brass fit the stock Glock barrel?

Have another 9mm pistol? Use the rejects for the other pistol
skurvy  [Member]
5/6/2008 6:14:15 PM
Get a Lee factory crimp die.

SBR7_11  [Team Member]
5/6/2008 6:35:37 PM
Send me your rejects, I don't think there is anything wrong with them.


Raise ram, turn die down snug, lower ram, and turn die a weee bit more, and look for a snug bump (cam over) of the press handle, tighten the lock nut. One of problem barrels got remedied with the use of the LEE size die I had from a spare die set (was using the RCBS die at the time)..

For a crimo diameter, look for .377/.378 at case mouth. Use barrel out of slide for gauge, rounds should drop ("PLUNK") into chamber, and fall out freely when barrel tipped. Seems to me maybe that the Lone Wolf barrels might have tight chambers I think... refer to Glocktalk and Glockpost.
diestone  [Team Member]
5/6/2008 6:47:52 PM

Originally Posted By skurvy:
Get a Lee factory crimp die.



+1
Chris_1522  [Team Member]
5/6/2008 7:54:17 PM
I don't think 9mm Glocks have ever been known to produce any kind of bulging anyway.
ma96782  [Team Member]
5/6/2008 8:42:47 PM
Re-loading Die Adjustments

www.chuckhawks.com/adjust_reloading_dies.htm


Adjusting the resizing die

Some three die sets for reloading pistol cartridges are available with a tungsten carbide insert in the resizing die. These more expensive resizing/decapping dies do not generally require case lubricant for the resizing operation. They are used and adjusted just like a regular die, except that they should be adjusted in the press so that the shell holder does not strike the bottom of the die. Screw a carbide resizing die into the press with the shell holder at the top of the stroke. When the die touches the shell holder, stop and tighten the large lock nut. Do not screw a carbide die so far into the press that it cams over at the top of the stroke.

Whether the resizing die is carbide or the standard steel type, the decapping pin should be adjusted so that is protrudes 3/16" below the bottom of the die. Loosen the small lock nut at the top of the die and turn the decap assembly in or out to achieve approximately 3/16" of protrusion, and tighten the lock nut. Make sure the decapping pin is still centered in the die after the lock nut has been tightened.



Having the die touch the shell holder won't always break your carbide ring. Though I guess it could happen. If you were to be slamming the ram down to slap the shell holder against the die. So, just use a good steady "stroke" to, Get R Done.

I like the idea of shaving down the top surface of shell holder too.

Aloha, Mark
aedavis  [Member]
5/6/2008 8:57:35 PM
Most likely your sizing die isn't sizing the case enough. I had the same problem with the RCBS Carbide Sizing die in 9mm Luger. There are 3 things you could do to fix the problem:

1. Buy a Lee Carbide sizing die - I tried a friend's Lee sizer and it fixed the problem for me - the Lee die's design allows it to size the case smaller.

2. Buy an EGW Undersize sizing die. This die is a Lee carbide die modified to fully resize the case. See www.egw-guns.com

3. Grind the bottom of your RCBS die down so that you can adjust it lower, which will size more of the case. I did this and it works for me, but I don't recommend it unless you have machining skills.

Search on BrianEnos.com for 'Glock brass' or 'Glocked brass' for more information.

ma96782  [Team Member]
5/6/2008 9:03:57 PM
The first time around........I guess I didn't read it very well........


I have been reloading 9X19mm rounds for my suppressed 9mm platforms for a few months now. One issue I keep coming back to is the large amount of "throwaway" brass I get after decapping/resizing the brass. I have a case gauge, but I have found that specifically with my Lone Wolf barrel for my Glock the chamber is even tighter and rounds that fit the case gauge will flat out get stuck with at least 1/8" of the case sticking out of the barrel. I'd say it's a solid 1:5 ratio of bad:good cases. I have tried several different cases and have gotten the same results... worse with CBC brass.


So, you KNEW that the GLOCK's barrel (Lone Wolf, brand) was the "problem." In this case the barrel might just have too tight a chamber spec. to function 100% with your re-loads.

So.......is it the re-loads or the barrel?

What happens when you change back to the factory barrel?

Perhaps, the "Lone Wolf" needs to go back to the factory? Yeah, you bought it for the tighter chamber, thinking that: "Tighter is better." But, you gave up, "function."

Or.........as it has already been suggested, YOU need to look at what you're doing with your re-loads.

Or.........a combination of barrel and re-loads.

Aloha, Mark

PS......why did you mention the suppressed platform? Did you suspect that the brass from that firearm was causing the problem? I can see that IF the ammo was "hot" and the "chamber generous"......then, yes. The brass could have excessively expanded and be larger, than usual once fired brass from a pistol. So, that's all the more reason, to get the cases "properly re-sized" all the way down the entire case length.
sailhertoo  [Team Member]
5/7/2008 2:56:23 AM

Originally Posted By aedavis:
Most likely your sizing die isn't sizing the case enough. I had the same problem with the RCBS Carbide Sizing die in 9mm Luger. There are 3 things you could do to fix the problem:

1. Buy a Lee Carbide sizing die - I tried a friend's Lee sizer and it fixed the problem for me - the Lee die's design allows it to size the case smaller.

2. Buy an EGW Undersize sizing die. This die is a Lee carbide die modified to fully resize the case. See www.egw-guns.com

3. Grind the bottom of your RCBS die down so that you can adjust it lower, which will size more of the case. I did this and it works for me, but I don't recommend it unless you have machining skills.

Search on BrianEnos.com for 'Glock brass' or 'Glocked brass' for more information.



I've done your #3 option on several dies that were'nt sizing enough and it works good. Just take a very small amount off at a time 'till it sizes right. Used a belt sander with fine paper then polished with a dremal.
NateTheShake  [Member]
5/7/2008 9:32:30 AM

Originally Posted By aedavis:
1. Buy a Lee Carbide sizing die - I tried a friend's Lee sizer and it fixed the problem for me - the Lee die's design allows it to size the case smaller.


Lee Carbine Sizing die on the way.

We'll see how that works.

I can physically see during the resizing process with the RCBS shell holder and RCBS die that the brass isn't going all the way into the die. The part that isn't going in is exactly the spot where some of the brass stops in the barrel. I will try the Lee die and see how that works out.


Originally Posted By: ma96782
I like the idea of shaving down the top surface of shell holder too


I'm going to try the Lee die first. If that still isn't sizing all the way down I might have to have my buddies in our machine shop "take a little off the top" of my shell holder.

I'm hoping that isn't necessary. However I have noticed the RCBS shell holders are a bit taller than the Lee shell holders I have for other cartridge sizes and some of the case is covered by the RCBS shell holder not allowing it to enter the die.

Maybe a combination of a shorter shell holder and Lee die will get me where I need to be.


Originally Posted By: ma96782
So, you KNEW that the GLOCK's barrel (Lone Wolf, brand) was the "problem." In this case the barrel might just have too tight a chamber spec. to function 100% with your re-loads.

So.......is it the re-loads or the barrel?

What happens when you change back to the factory barrel?

Perhaps, the "Lone Wolf" needs to go back to the factory? Yeah, you bought it for the tighter chamber, thinking that: "Tighter is better." But, you gave up, "function."


The Lone Wolf barrel is indeed tighter than the factory barrel. I'd say half of the brass that doesn't fit the LW barrel drops right into the factory barrel. However, ALL factory ammo that I have tried (probably a dozen or so different brands or loads) fit and function flawlessly in the LW barrel. This is definitely a reload issue, not a barrel issue.


I realized this was an issue that was somehow coming from my end so I've just been ultra careful and checking every resized case and then every loaded cartridge in the LW barrel. Hopefully the Lee die will give some better results, I will update when I get a chance to sit down with that die.
thebeekeeper1  [Site Staff]
5/7/2008 9:53:27 AM
I'm curious what you gained with this "LW" barrel. Care to share?
brickeyee  [Member]
5/7/2008 9:57:01 AM

Originally Posted By ma96782:


Having the die touch the shell holder won't always break your carbide ring. Though I guess it could happen. If you were to be slamming the ram down to slap the shell holder against the die. So, just use a good steady "stroke" to, Get R Done.



While carbide is very hard, it is also brittle.

Even steady force on the carbide that is not perfectly uniform (from machining tolerance and press slop) can cause it to crack.

You might actually consider buying some decent brass like starline.
strat81  [Team Member]
5/7/2008 10:01:12 AM

Originally Posted By Chris_1522:
I don't think 9mm Glocks have ever been known to produce any kind of bulging anyway.

My G26 doesn't seem to affect the cases any better or worse than my Taurus 24/7. A friend's G23 (.40) produces a noticeable bulge.
NateTheShake  [Member]
5/7/2008 10:13:29 AM

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
I'm curious what you gained with this "LW" barrel. Care to share?


A threaded barrel. That's about it. Again, these reloads are for my suppressor.
spqrzilla  [Member]
5/7/2008 10:15:36 AM
I had a lot of trouble with 9mm chambering too, I found that the problem seems to be the final diameter of the brass toward the case mouth. My solution was to abandon lead bullets for jacketed to reduce the diameter a bit, and to use a taper crimp die set to agressively crimp the loaded round. I also found a 9mm case gage handy.
thebeekeeper1  [Site Staff]
5/7/2008 11:43:06 AM

Originally Posted By NateTheShake:

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:
I'm curious what you gained with this "LW" barrel. Care to share?


A threaded barrel. That's about it. Again, these reloads are for my suppressor.


Gotcha--thanks.
ma96782  [Team Member]
5/7/2008 1:19:50 PM

Maybe a combination of a shorter shell holder and Lee die will get me where I need to be.


That sounds like a workable solution.

Though, I can just see it now........soon you'll want more production in order to feed your shooting addiction. And, you'll be looking to get a progressive.

Aloha, Mark
ma96782  [Team Member]
5/7/2008 1:27:30 PM

Originally Posted By brickeyee:

Originally Posted By ma96782:


Having the die touch the shell holder won't always break your carbide ring. Though I guess it could happen. If you were to be slamming the ram down to slap the shell holder against the die. So, just use a good steady "stroke" to, Get R Done.



While carbide is very hard, it is also brittle.

Even steady force on the carbide that is not perfectly uniform (from machining tolerance and press slop) can cause it to crack.

You might actually consider buying some decent brass like starline.


The adjustment calls for the die to "touch" the shell holder. IF you feel more comfortable with a slip of paper (say, filler paper thickness) between the die and shell holder.......I can imagine that'll work too.

____________________________________________________

What I can't quite figure out is: "Can regular sandpaper actually reduce carbide?" But, I haven't tried it myself.......so, there you are. That is why I like the idea of reducing the top of the shell holder (or finding one that is lower).

Aloha, Mark

NateTheShake  [Member]
5/7/2008 1:36:50 PM

Originally Posted By ma96782:

Maybe a combination of a shorter shell holder and Lee die will get me where I need to be.


That sounds like a workable solution.

Though, I can just see it now........soon you'll want more production in order to feed your shooting addiction. And, you'll be looking to get a progressive.

Aloha, Mark


I have no doubts about that. I wanted to start on a single stage, to ensure I focus entirely on the fundamentals before going more complex. So far so good, I'm learning a lot by going one step at a time. I have gone from three hours for 100 rounds start to finish to around two hours.
ma96782  [Team Member]
5/7/2008 1:41:21 PM
LOL.....yup.....I agree, it's good to start on a single stage.

With the progressive you won't be able to switch mfns for a shell plate. So this sort of learning and problem solving........goes a long way towards a complete, well rounded, "re-loading education."

Aloha, Mark

PS.........Did you notice? That it's not a sin........to mix or use other manufacturer's products. Ooops, I spilled some of my BLUE KOOL AID.
callgood  [Team Member]
5/7/2008 2:12:05 PM

Originally Posted By skurvy:
Get a Lee factory crimp die.



I have one for 9mm, 10mm, .45ACP. I have a KKM barrel in my G20 and I've never had a failure to chamber once I established the correct amount of crimp.
StewartTR  [Team Member]
5/7/2008 3:36:57 PM
Could be a bad set of dies. I had a Dillon Carbide .223 sizing die that wasn't right. After trying a couple of things tech support recommened I sent the die back. The sent me a new die and all is well now.
aedavis  [Member]
5/7/2008 11:44:08 PM

Originally Posted By StewartTR:
Could be a bad set of dies. I had a Dillon Carbide .223 sizing die that wan't right. After trying a couple of things tech support recommened I sent the die back. The sent me a new die and all is well now.


A note to the Original Poster if you go to a Dillon progressive sometime in the future -

After I modified my RCBS die for 9mm loading (I started off single stage loading 9mm on my Rockchucker), I bought a used Square Deal B set up in 9mm. I found that the brass wasn't getting sized enough with the original Dillon die, just like the problem I originally had with my RCBS die.

I talked to Dillon about it and they had me send in the old die and sent me a new one. The new one works great.

FYI
HK_Shooter_03  [Team Member]
5/20/2008 10:58:40 AM
I put a piece of paper between my carbide dies and the shell holder.

I can't always see daylight but there is a space.
Paid Advertisement
--