Archived Posts » 59,821,464
GSG 110 ROUND MAG UPDATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
5/19/2011 7:35:14 PM
Hello fellow members. My name is Chris Stinson, I work for American Tactical Imports as a Customer Service Representative . There has been alot of issues with the 110 round mag, we have possibly figured out the reason or one of the reasons why some people are complaining about the issue of "when the top shell in the mag is removed and inserted into the chamber it is damaging the next round in line" When the casing is damaged it doesn't go into the chamber correctly and ends up in light strikes or failure to fire. Our gunsmiths have been racking there brains over this and they came up with this. Everyone knows where the spring is and how to get to it so with that said, the mags come from Germany wound to between two and two and a quarter turns so back that down to 1 1/4 turns. The problem is that there is so much pressure on the spring that it dents the second round and that is why you get failure to fire and light strikes. We have to work together to get this product to work the way it should and with your help it is possible so please have faith and be patient we will work this out. So with that said please give me feed back on this issue. I can also be reached at 1-800-290-0065 ext. 141 Have a GREAT DAY and HAPPY SHOOTING!!!!!
5/20/2011 12:52:43 PM
So what you're saying is:
Disassemble the drum
back the spring down to 1.25 turns
Reassemble the drum
I will try that tonight and see. I noticed last night, that if I only had one round in the drum, it fed fine but if there was another round, it seemed like there was too much drag on the bolt and it wouldn't close all the way. Remove the drum allowed the bolt to close all the way.
Disassemble the drum
back the spring down to 1.25 turns
Reassemble the drum
I will try that tonight and see. I noticed last night, that if I only had one round in the drum, it fed fine but if there was another round, it seemed like there was too much drag on the bolt and it wouldn't close all the way. Remove the drum allowed the bolt to close all the way.
5/20/2011 2:35:48 PM
Yes that is what I am asking you to do please try it and let me know how it works for you.
5/20/2011 6:28:13 PM
Whoah.... back the truck up.. I thought that we weren't supposed to disassemble the drum at all. From what I remember reading on my replacement drum (which has been already been sent back in due to a locked-up condition after its first use) there was a warning "Do not open drum". 
5/20/2011 6:56:42 PM
You are right it does say that but we "ATI" are asking you to do so. But only for that reason!!! We did it and it seemed to work but we need more info. Somehow we have to make the mag work and this is our idea to make the mag work better. REMEMBER DO ONLY WHAT WE SUGGESTED NOTHING MORE TO ALTER THE FUNCTION. If this works AWESOME problem solved if not we will need to try other things. Thank you for your support and feed back!!
5/23/2011 6:52:38 PM
Has anyone tried this yet?
5/23/2011 9:18:05 PM
I have considered it, but have not done it for the following reason. I spend $80 + shipping, on a drum magazine for my GSG. It cracks on the 1st use. I send it back to the distributor for $15 in shipping charges. The replacement will not shoot anymore than a couple of rounds at a time without a jam.
Perhaps the consumers should be reimbursed for their losses! We should not have to deal with a defective product that should have never been released.
I have lost interest in the novelty of a drum magazine for the GSG, since it does not function.
Perhaps the consumers should be reimbursed for their losses! We should not have to deal with a defective product that should have never been released.
I have lost interest in the novelty of a drum magazine for the GSG, since it does not function.
5/24/2011 4:43:10 AM
Chris, please feel free to use the drum mag I sent back to you folks as a test unit.
5/24/2011 9:32:10 AM
Originally Posted By Flat_Dog:
Chris, please feel free to use the drum mag I sent back to you folks as a test unit.
Chris, please feel free to use the drum mag I sent back to you folks as a test unit.
So that they can make sure their sledge hammer is functioning like it should be, right?
5/24/2011 9:55:48 AM
Hello,
We are trying to get to the bottom of the issue, but we need feed back from our customers. If no one tries this we have no feed back, there for the problem continues! We know this works because our gunsmiths have tried it. Thank you for your feed back!! P.S. No sledge hammers were used or harmed in the process.
We are trying to get to the bottom of the issue, but we need feed back from our customers. If no one tries this we have no feed back, there for the problem continues! We know this works because our gunsmiths have tried it. Thank you for your feed back!! P.S. No sledge hammers were used or harmed in the process.
5/24/2011 6:58:12 PM
any chance you can post some pics of exactly what you are asking us to try
not sure of the others, but im about as mechanically inclined
as a bull in a china shop, i can definately get the drup apart,
it's back together that i'm worrying about
thx
garyz
not sure of the others, but im about as mechanically inclined
as a bull in a china shop, i can definately get the drup apart,
it's back together that i'm worrying about
thx
garyz
5/24/2011 7:48:55 PM
Hi Sir, Tomorrow when I get to work I will see what I can do as far as pictures. Thank you so much for your interest in helping us out!!!! Wish I could give you picks now, but to tell you the truth i'm sitting in my chair watching TV with my family. But I will do my best tomorrow to get you picks.
. But I will do my best tomorrow to get you picks.
5/24/2011 10:59:26 PM
Was teh drum sent back to me modified with the new procedure? I only ask because I would like to sell is as I no longer have the carbine.
5/25/2011 10:02:15 AM
When was your drum sent back to you?
5/25/2011 2:42:26 PM
I received it yesterday via UPS.
5/25/2011 9:26:59 PM
I have what I believe to be a 3rd gen drum mag, all black plastic, with tan writing on the loading disk. I received my replacement in May 2011- RMA#2501
I tried to open it up, but I did not have a torx bit small enough to remove the two smaller screws at the to of the drum.
I tried a small flat head, but couldn't get the screw loose, I didn't want to strip it.
Guess I will get a bit that fits and give it a try.
I tried to open it up, but I did not have a torx bit small enough to remove the two smaller screws at the to of the drum.
I tried a small flat head, but couldn't get the screw loose, I didn't want to strip it.
Guess I will get a bit that fits and give it a try.
5/26/2011 4:34:09 PM
Hi,
I checked with the gunsmiths on those smaller screws, its a T6 torque bit that they use that fits it.
I checked with the gunsmiths on those smaller screws, its a T6 torque bit that they use that fits it.
5/26/2011 10:24:06 PM
I have the same question that was asked earlier. I received a replacement drum magazine on monday May 20th and I would like to know if the modification has already been done?
Thanks
Thanks
5/30/2011 10:22:40 AM
any idea when the pics will be added?
thx
garyz
thx
garyz
5/30/2011 11:21:29 AM
OK, so I just got a mag from Midway on Friday and I saw this thread so I figured I should modify the spring first before trying it (yesterday). Thus, I never noticed the problems described, I just started from the assumption that Chris' recommendation that the magazine have one and a quarter turns of the mainspring was a requirement from the start and the only way to ensure that was to do it myself.
I undid the four T10 screws on the back, and then the two T6 screws near the tower. The back then lifted off revealing the plate with finger wedges for loading. Next was the dangerous/risky part, lifting off the plate. I failed. I used a thin screwdriver to lift the plate and at one point it went "sprUNG!" and the plate was thrown from my fingers across the room and the spring inside went and unwound itself noisily (eye protection people!). Well, Chris said to have it with one and a quarter turns, and now I'd be starting from unsprung...
I had to re-seat the follower that is built into the turning plate (it partially unseated in the fling across the room). The center where the spring attaches has a square seat for the plate (which allows the plate to grab the spring as you turn the plate during loading adding tension to the mechanism). In the center of the square is a hexagonal hole, sized for a 6mm allen wrench.
When putting the plate on, you want the follower towards the very end of the spiral feed, right near the tower on the outer edge (afterall, it does no good to push rounds if it's somewhere in the middle. Arranging that will cause you to probably require the center post (with the hex) to turn some amount for it to seat. Now's the time to turn the one and a quarter turns so I sort of arranged the plate on top where it should be, placed the follower where it should be, and then inserted the allen wrench short end in the slot, long end towards the tower as an index. I then turned the allen wrench one turn around (back to the tower) and another 90deg (quarter turn) and moved it a little more to get the plate to seat on the center nut. The center nut sits in a circular depression on the other side of the mag, so it's best to seat that first before starting this... With the one and a quarter turn done the folllower will hold the system while you grab the back plate and screws and re-attach them.
OK, now that's done, I realized that with the 6mm hole, one could probably put the allen wrench in prior to prying up the finger plate, and if the mag was well attached or in a padded vice to prevent movement, when one lifted up the plate with a screw driver, you could probably stop the rapid unwinding ("sprUNG!") of the spring which flung the plate across the room using the allen wrench. So, someone can try the less explosive method of disassembly.
OK, for the test firing:
Host rifle: GSG-5, SBR, GemTech threaded barrel, AR15A1 flash hider and GemTech Outback as muzzle devices. Rifle has not been cleaned in a couple thousand rounds. Mag safety was removed long ago.
Ammo: Two variously volume filled open boxes of Federal bulk .22LR high velocity from WalMart (the 550 box variety) that were found open in the range bag.
Rifle had loaded drum mag inserted, and rifle was test fired for function at single shot, "how fast can the trigger be pullled" and various semi-auto speeds. Accuracy was not tested, just speed and function.
The drum was loaded three times, all shots were fired from the shoulder with a sight picture, even the "how fast can I..." rounds:
Time 1: (oldest box of Federal). Two failures to fire, extracted rounds had light primer strikes. All other function was fine in single shot and "how fast"/"brass rainbow" methods of firing. Two failures were in the first 60 rounds or so of the magazine (I didn't keep track). First couple dozen rounds fired with A1 flash hider, then the rest were with the suppressor.
Time 2: (newer box of Federal, about 2+hours after Time 1). One failure to feed. It was the second to last round and the case looked dented from the bolt striking the case. The last round fed/fired. No problems until then in any speed of firing including very slow fire single shots and rapid fire. All rounds fired on suppressed.
Time 3: (newer box of Federal, 10 min after Time 2). Two failures to fire, extracted rounds had light primer strikes. All other function/feed was fine. One failure was in slow fire (you could hear the difference in feed for the first one) in the first 15 rounds. The second was about 10 rounds later, also in slow fire. Shooter pulled trigger and it went click. Round extracted fine, next one looked to have the rim too low, bullet too high in the feed. I pushed the nose of the next round down raising the rim (done through the ejection port), and the round fed fine. No further problems in both slow and sustained "how fast can I pull the trigger" (which really does tire the finger out). All rounds fired with suppressor.
At that point my shooting partner and I didn't want to load the magazine again and decided to let the suppressor cool down and call it a day...
I didn't experience a consistent "damaging the next round" event. I have had the "bolt over round damaging" occur with regular GSG mags on occasion, but usually they're fine (here it was what, 1 in 330+ rounds, so less than 0.3%) I did experience light primer strikes for some reason (maybe I should clean this thing? Maybe something bunged up the hammer just a bit, maybe the round didn't seat and the hammer/firing pin seated it instead of firing, whatever) at a rate of 4 in 330+ rounds (<1.2%). Oh I say "330+ rounds" because you can fill it with exactly 110 rounds (which I did the first time, by counting them out). But my drum will hold something like 115-117 if you just keep loading until it won't hold any more (which I figure people are going to do at the range), so I then backed it down by one round and commenced firing... So it may have been more like 338-340 rounds. I don't recommend this, I just figured that at the range one is far more likely to go to the "until it won't hold any more" method of loading...
I undid the four T10 screws on the back, and then the two T6 screws near the tower. The back then lifted off revealing the plate with finger wedges for loading. Next was the dangerous/risky part, lifting off the plate. I failed. I used a thin screwdriver to lift the plate and at one point it went "sprUNG!" and the plate was thrown from my fingers across the room and the spring inside went and unwound itself noisily (eye protection people!). Well, Chris said to have it with one and a quarter turns, and now I'd be starting from unsprung...
I had to re-seat the follower that is built into the turning plate (it partially unseated in the fling across the room). The center where the spring attaches has a square seat for the plate (which allows the plate to grab the spring as you turn the plate during loading adding tension to the mechanism). In the center of the square is a hexagonal hole, sized for a 6mm allen wrench.
When putting the plate on, you want the follower towards the very end of the spiral feed, right near the tower on the outer edge (afterall, it does no good to push rounds if it's somewhere in the middle. Arranging that will cause you to probably require the center post (with the hex) to turn some amount for it to seat. Now's the time to turn the one and a quarter turns so I sort of arranged the plate on top where it should be, placed the follower where it should be, and then inserted the allen wrench short end in the slot, long end towards the tower as an index. I then turned the allen wrench one turn around (back to the tower) and another 90deg (quarter turn) and moved it a little more to get the plate to seat on the center nut. The center nut sits in a circular depression on the other side of the mag, so it's best to seat that first before starting this... With the one and a quarter turn done the folllower will hold the system while you grab the back plate and screws and re-attach them.
OK, now that's done, I realized that with the 6mm hole, one could probably put the allen wrench in prior to prying up the finger plate, and if the mag was well attached or in a padded vice to prevent movement, when one lifted up the plate with a screw driver, you could probably stop the rapid unwinding ("sprUNG!") of the spring which flung the plate across the room using the allen wrench. So, someone can try the less explosive method of disassembly.
OK, for the test firing:
Host rifle: GSG-5, SBR, GemTech threaded barrel, AR15A1 flash hider and GemTech Outback as muzzle devices. Rifle has not been cleaned in a couple thousand rounds. Mag safety was removed long ago.
Ammo: Two variously volume filled open boxes of Federal bulk .22LR high velocity from WalMart (the 550 box variety) that were found open in the range bag.
Rifle had loaded drum mag inserted, and rifle was test fired for function at single shot, "how fast can the trigger be pullled" and various semi-auto speeds. Accuracy was not tested, just speed and function.
The drum was loaded three times, all shots were fired from the shoulder with a sight picture, even the "how fast can I..." rounds:
Time 1: (oldest box of Federal). Two failures to fire, extracted rounds had light primer strikes. All other function was fine in single shot and "how fast"/"brass rainbow" methods of firing. Two failures were in the first 60 rounds or so of the magazine (I didn't keep track). First couple dozen rounds fired with A1 flash hider, then the rest were with the suppressor.
Time 2: (newer box of Federal, about 2+hours after Time 1). One failure to feed. It was the second to last round and the case looked dented from the bolt striking the case. The last round fed/fired. No problems until then in any speed of firing including very slow fire single shots and rapid fire. All rounds fired on suppressed.
Time 3: (newer box of Federal, 10 min after Time 2). Two failures to fire, extracted rounds had light primer strikes. All other function/feed was fine. One failure was in slow fire (you could hear the difference in feed for the first one) in the first 15 rounds. The second was about 10 rounds later, also in slow fire. Shooter pulled trigger and it went click. Round extracted fine, next one looked to have the rim too low, bullet too high in the feed. I pushed the nose of the next round down raising the rim (done through the ejection port), and the round fed fine. No further problems in both slow and sustained "how fast can I pull the trigger" (which really does tire the finger out). All rounds fired with suppressor.
At that point my shooting partner and I didn't want to load the magazine again and decided to let the suppressor cool down and call it a day...
I didn't experience a consistent "damaging the next round" event. I have had the "bolt over round damaging" occur with regular GSG mags on occasion, but usually they're fine (here it was what, 1 in 330+ rounds, so less than 0.3%) I did experience light primer strikes for some reason (maybe I should clean this thing? Maybe something bunged up the hammer just a bit, maybe the round didn't seat and the hammer/firing pin seated it instead of firing, whatever) at a rate of 4 in 330+ rounds (<1.2%). Oh I say "330+ rounds" because you can fill it with exactly 110 rounds (which I did the first time, by counting them out). But my drum will hold something like 115-117 if you just keep loading until it won't hold any more (which I figure people are going to do at the range), so I then backed it down by one round and commenced firing... So it may have been more like 338-340 rounds. I don't recommend this, I just figured that at the range one is far more likely to go to the "until it won't hold any more" method of loading...
5/31/2011 12:31:52 PM
Hi All,
Just changed my drum to 1.25 winds on the spring. Using Federal plated ammo I had one miss/damage next round after 3 fires on full mag. After that, the rest went through without issue. I then reloaded completely and removed 5 rounds before firing and had no issues. I reloaded completely one more time and removed 3 rounds before firing and had no issues. After that I was a bit worn out from all that mag loading
so I stopped for the day.
Seems to work for me.
Gary
Just changed my drum to 1.25 winds on the spring. Using Federal plated ammo I had one miss/damage next round after 3 fires on full mag. After that, the rest went through without issue. I then reloaded completely and removed 5 rounds before firing and had no issues. I reloaded completely one more time and removed 3 rounds before firing and had no issues. After that I was a bit worn out from all that mag loading
so I stopped for the day.
Seems to work for me.
Gary
6/4/2011 1:25:23 AM
I was able to adjust the spring to 1 1/4 turn thanks to jchock's step by step instructions. I shot 100rds of the Remington Wallymart ammo without a jam. Then as I reload it felt like the follower or something got stuck. It turned out the spring must have detached itself from notch in the center piece of the drum. Could someone please post a photo of how the spring is supposed to be attached in the center piece? I can't seem to make the spring hold well on that little notch? Thanks
6/9/2011 5:06:26 AM
hey ati guys any update on the pictures?
thx
garyz
thx
garyz
6/9/2011 12:47:19 PM
Still no responce on the pics, just like their shitty customer service.
6/9/2011 12:49:56 PM
I have to ask this, if I try to do this modification myself and I damage my drum doing so, will you guys still warranty the drum?
6/9/2011 1:43:42 PM
We are waiting for permission from GSG to post pictures. Sorry about the delay. Your drum will be under warranty if you only do our suggestions. Thank you
6/10/2011 1:27:34 PM
Originally Posted By CetmeMI:
Still no responce on the pics, just like their shitty customer service.
Still no responce on the pics, just like their shitty customer service.
Man... you sure have a hard-on for ATI.
Why don't you just dump your GSG stuff and stay off the site? Sheesssh...6/10/2011 2:07:59 PM
I have to ask this, if I try to do this modification myself and I damage my drum doing so, will you guys still warranty the drum?
Absolutely.
We are going back and forth and back and forth right now with the Germans regarding this trying to get them to let us make it an official fix with instructions etc etc but we're still working on seeing eye to eye on this. Our gunsmiths have tested it and we've been getting some positive feedback from users who have tried it. If you attempt it and something goes wrong, please contact us so we can help set things straight.
Again, we know it's frustrating, its frustrating for us too as we spend a lot of time trying to address every situation that arises. We're working very closely with the Germans as always to get a handle on this. GSG worked very long and hard on these magazines but there's still fine tuning that they need to accept and address and we're letting them know everything we're seeing and hearing. Some magazines have been more problematic than others as we now have over 10,000 of them out there in the US but certainly haven't had to repair, adjust or fix remotely that many, so we're moving toward success.
We assure you, ATI is addressing your concerns, please be patient with us on this though as ATI does not make these, so we cannot call the shots on what is wrong, right, can be fixed, isn't broken etc, that's on GSG and we are all trying very hard to get them to see that.
6/20/2011 6:12:31 PM
Hey Chris,
When should I expect my replacement mag? RA#2773. It was received by ATI on 6/14/2011.
When should I expect my replacement mag? RA#2773. It was received by ATI on 6/14/2011.
6/22/2011 9:01:45 PM
Nimrad I will check on your mag tomorrow. If you get a chance call me tomorrow between the hrs. of 9am and 5:30 pm est. 1-800-290-0065 ext 141
6/28/2011 8:53:24 PM
Any updates on pictures?
7/5/2011 2:22:26 PM
hey ati guys any update on the pictures?
thx
garyz
thx
garyz
7/9/2011 11:30:59 PM
ATI Rep, please advise on status of pictures.
7/11/2011 6:03:26 PM
Pictures?
7/12/2011 2:03:21 AM
Originally Posted By BigBoss0311:
Pictures?
Pictures?
Pay the shipping, wait a month or so and you will get a new one. I just got my replacement last week(# 3, so far) and hopefully this will be the last one. I tried to follow the instructions and the spring, sprung. I could not get it back together and still have the tension on the spring.
7/17/2011 6:47:38 PM
Still waiting on a reply as to whether pictures will be posted.
7/26/2011 12:55:19 AM
So, I took out my new replacement today. Looks like 3rd time is a charm. First one, cracked.... Second one would not feed and I tried to follow the instructions to repair it with no avail... Finally got my replacement and tried it out. 110 rounds without a flaw! Lets all hope GSG finally got it right and it functions like this every time I use it!
8/4/2011 7:35:32 PM
I bought my GSG-5 drum mag 12/27/10 from Hotgunparts.com. I tried it once before and it didn't feed well, so I put it up till I had time to check it out.
It didn't show any cracks or defects. I tried it again today and not only did it not feed, the feed tower ripped clean off as I was removing the mag from
the mag well. I will contact Hotgunparts.com but they only have a 30 day warranty. Is there any warranty from GSG or ATI on this?
It didn't show any cracks or defects. I tried it again today and not only did it not feed, the feed tower ripped clean off as I was removing the mag from
the mag well. I will contact Hotgunparts.com but they only have a 30 day warranty. Is there any warranty from GSG or ATI on this?
8/5/2011 1:26:16 AM
Who said HotGunParts.com has a 30 day warranty? That is not the case... it's 100% satisfaction guarantee... and it sounds like you were not satisfied.
If you ordered it from me I'll gladly replace it for you. Please email me at Sales@HotGunParts.com and I'll take care of it for you.
Julio
If you ordered it from me I'll gladly replace it for you. Please email me at Sales@HotGunParts.com and I'll take care of it for you.
Julio
8/5/2011 9:50:05 AM
Hello,
Please call American Tactical Imports at 1-800-290-0065 ext 141. We will exchange your defective magazine for a new one. Thank you
Please call American Tactical Imports at 1-800-290-0065 ext 141. We will exchange your defective magazine for a new one. Thank you
8/5/2011 5:54:52 PM
Sent e-mail to Julio at hotgunparts
8/11/2011 5:10:01 AM
I just sent my drum back on Monday. It broke only after using it a couple times. I'm wondering how long it will take to get the replacement.
8/15/2011 11:52:39 PM
I got mine today. 10 days from when it broke to replaced. Thanks Julio, great job.
I will try it at the range next.
Edit: Range report, the new drum works very well. Thanks Julio and hotgunparts.com
I will try it at the range next.
Edit: Range report, the new drum works very well. Thanks Julio and hotgunparts.com
8/18/2011 2:03:50 PM
Technical question: Are the current and replacement drum mags springs set to 1.25 revolutions as Chris suggests?
FYI:
THANK YOU Chris, Trent and ATI!
I called and got an RA number on Friday, sent it in the next day on Saturday. Today (Wednesday) I got my replacement drum mag Turn around less than a week.
Excellent customer service!
You have won a loyal customer.
Thank you to your team.
FYI:
THANK YOU Chris, Trent and ATI!
I called and got an RA number on Friday, sent it in the next day on Saturday. Today (Wednesday) I got my replacement drum mag Turn around less than a week.
Excellent customer service!
You have won a loyal customer.
Thank you to your team.
8/22/2011 8:05:02 PM
Wow, well that is sure a quick turn around for that guy.
I sent mine in 2 Monday's ago and got it today, so exactly 2 week turn around for time for me. Not too bad I guess.
I sent mine in 2 Monday's ago and got it today, so exactly 2 week turn around for time for me. Not too bad I guess.
9/18/2011 3:30:53 PM
Any updates or suggestions on best place to buy the drum...ie: ensure i get the latest revision?
10/3/2011 12:56:12 PM
Chris,
Any update on pics ? I want to pull the trigger on one of these but still uncertain.
Thanks,
John
Any update on pics ? I want to pull the trigger on one of these but still uncertain.
Thanks,
John
11/11/2011 12:10:09 PM
So we are now on months of waiting? What is the latest news? Should have had instructions out by now!
11/11/2011 1:54:00 PM
The Germans haven't authorized anything as far as us being able to do an official instruction for modifying the magazine. They want the mags sent to us for repair or replacement under standard warranty policy.
11/12/2011 12:23:55 PM
Ahah! I knew there was a thread about the recommended fix on the drum, but I couldn't locate it via a search. Guess I wasn't using the right key search words. I'd asked about this in a new thread last week or so and everyone ignored it. But I've copied the info now into my own database and will try 1.25 spring turns before shooting my replacement-replacement drum for the first time.
11/14/2011 5:18:06 PM
I picked my drum up from CDNN and have run 400 rounds through it with no cracks, no FTF's...
