AR15.Com Archives
 FN SCAR?
Munition  [Member]
1/4/2007 10:49:12 AM
Whats everyone here think of the new SOCOM rifle? According to FN, It looks like the SCAR has been chosen. see thread:

http://www.fnhusa.com/contents/News/PDFs/3-2-06_FN_SCAR_2.pdf

IF you ask me, the FN SCAR light and heavy are the real deal. I hear civilian models come out in 08. I also read in a Guns N Ammo magazine that the SCAR will replace the M16! Whats everyone think? Will you buy one? I think I will

Here are pics and info sites if you dont know what I'm talking about:

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as70-e.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_SCAR

http://www.impactguns.com/store/fn_scar.html
E4W  [Member]
1/3/2007 7:15:22 PM
Looks cool, but I think I saw something about it before - Maybe year before last?

ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=256500
madmathew  [Member]
1/3/2007 7:23:37 PM
I think the weapon looks nice. That press release is almost a year old though! It sounds like patting themselves on the back more than anything officially claiming that they have a contract. Don't forget two years ago the Army Times was saying the H&K XM-8 was going to replace the M-16, then it was going to be M-4s in 6.8 SPC.
Gamma762  [Team Member]
1/3/2007 7:34:24 PM

Originally Posted By E4W:
Looks cool, but I think I saw something about it before - Maybe year before last?

ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=256500

ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=24&t=211740

Even more dupage.
Munition  [Member]
1/3/2007 7:35:23 PM
Yeh but the XM8 was somthing they tried to salvage from the XM29 OICW:

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as40-e.htm

If you ask me I like the SCAR more. As for the 6.8 SPC. I couldn't be happier if they switched to that round. I hear some of the SCARs are being tested in 6.8. I doubt the millitary ever changes completely over to 6.8. Thats a lot of money in barrels. It was bad enough when they made the M193 to M855 switch. Can you imagin how much M855 rounds, m16s, m4s, and 5.56 uppers would be left if they just decided to switch?

Master_Blaster  [Member]
1/3/2007 8:17:25 PM
Alright, cut the guy some slack. He's low on posts as of this writing.

"Munition" - the SCAR is ~2 years old now. The information in the arfcom thread is fairly accurate (Filled w/ lots of arguments, too. Get used to that around here.) & will give you a pretty good overhead. Rumor keeps churning about it being released for public sale late this year or early next. We shall see.
Dave_A  [Team Member]
1/3/2007 8:19:19 PM

Originally Posted By Munition:
Whats everyone here think of the new SOCOM rifle? According to FN, It looks like the SCAR has been chosen. see thread:

http://www.fnhusa.com/contents/News/PDFs/3-2-06_FN_SCAR_2.pdf

IF you ask me, the FN SCAR light and heavy are the real deal. I hear civilian models come out in 08. I also read in a Guns N Ammo magazine that the SCAR will replace the M16! Whats everyone think? Will you buy one? I think I will

Here are pics and info sites if you dont know what I'm talking about:

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as70-e.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_SCAR

http://www.impactguns.com/store/fn_scar.html


They have a contract....

600 rifles, no more...

Field reports say the weapon didn't live up to expectations (Big surprise, eh? It's not like this hasn't happened with every weapon tested since the M16 was adopted), and the contract will not be renewed....

By all reports, it's been as much of a 'smashing success' as the HK Mk23, and it probably will end up on the foreign/civilian market soon if for no reason other than to make some R&D money back...

The M4 and M16, in 5.56 is here to stay... And with the new Army sniper rifle (SASS) being a Knight's product, I doubt we'll see any 'Abandon the AR system' drive any time soon... If anything, the SDMW and SASS mean the end for non-AR platforms (at least in the Army), and the last of the M14s can finally go to LE and DRMO...
Dave_A  [Team Member]
1/3/2007 8:25:49 PM

Originally Posted By Munition:
Yeh but the XM8 was somthing they tried to salvage from the XM29 OICW:

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as40-e.htm

If you ask me I like the SCAR more. As for the 6.8 SPC. I couldn't be happier if they switched to that round. I hear some of the SCARs are being tested in 6.8. I doubt the millitary ever changes completely over to 6.8. Thats a lot of money in barrels. It was bad enough when they made the M193 to M855 switch. Can you imagin how much M855 rounds, m16s, m4s, and 5.56 uppers would be left if they just decided to switch?



6.8 isn't going anywhere either...

Outside of the world of 11" barrels and caliber zealots, the 77gr 5.56 is all the individual-weapon round we need, and it just so happens to be perfectly suited for present 1:7 M16s...

A slower, bigger bullet is not the solution, no matter WHAT it does out of teeny-tiny barrels... It's still heavier, slower, and the 5.56 still shoots flatter...
GA-Dawg  [Team Member]
1/3/2007 8:33:40 PM
I think it will see a lot of buyers if it is priced right. I like the design, but I still can't get past the storm trooper boot for the stock design. Looks strange to me.
GA-Dawg
Dave_A  [Team Member]
1/3/2007 8:42:17 PM

Originally Posted By GA-Dawg:
I think it will see a lot of buyers if it is priced right. I like the design, but I still can't get past the storm trooper boot for the stock design. Looks strange to me.
GA-Dawg


It will see some buyers, about the same number that bought HK53s, AUGs, and SIGs before the ban - maybe more out of possible re-ban concerns...

But in the end, no 5.56mm platform will ever overtake the AR in the US, unless something sees mass military adoption, or the damn Mini14 becomes more popular than I give it credit for...

Blanco_Diablo  [Member]
1/3/2007 8:57:02 PM
Dupe and a hef

Master_Blaster  [Member]
1/3/2007 9:12:36 PM

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
...Field reports say the weapon didn't live up to expectations (Big surprise, eh? It's not like this hasn't happened with every weapon tested since the M16 was adopted), and the contract will not be renewed...

By all reports, it's been as much of a 'smashing success' as the HK Mk23, and it probably will end up on the foreign/civilian market soon if for no reason other than to make some R&D money back...


Source (for once)?


The M4 and M16, in 5.56 is here to stay... And with the new Army sniper rifle (SASS) being a Knight's product,...


You've re-hashed this ad nauseum. SCAR wasn't submitted for, & did not compete in SASS trials. What's your point?


...I doubt we'll see any 'Abandon the AR system' drive any time soon... If anything, the SDMW and SASS mean the end for non-AR platforms (at least in the Army), and the last of the M14s can finally go to LE and DRMO...


I'm sure all those ARs you spent $$$ on will be safe. No need to feel threatened.

Considering the many false assertions you've made about it & subsequently been outed by those on this board who are in-the-know, you might want to start thinking more before you post. This has gone beyond the point of ripeness w/ you.
madmathew  [Member]
1/3/2007 9:20:46 PM
I like the AR platform, I just wish the Army had gone to 6.8 or better stayed with 7.62. I'd really prefer to carry a heavier caliber. At least I still my M-60 as my primary
CitySlicker  [Member]
1/3/2007 9:21:38 PM

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Field reports say the weapon didn't live up to expectations (Big surprise, eh? It's not like this hasn't happened with every weapon tested since the M16 was adopted), and the contract will not be renewed....

By all reports, it's been as much of a 'smashing success' as the HK Mk23,


Field reports, huh? Mind telling us a little bit more about them? Perhaps where they can be found? I suppose it's open source info. since you have no reservations about divulging the contents.

You know, without a source, the generic "field reports" are just rumor and conjecture.

Happy new year.

Justin
JBowles  [Team Member]
1/3/2007 9:36:26 PM

Originally Posted By CitySlicker:

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Field reports say the weapon didn't live up to expectations (Big surprise, eh? It's not like this hasn't happened with every weapon tested since the M16 was adopted), and the contract will not be renewed....

By all reports, it's been as much of a 'smashing success' as the HK Mk23,


Field reports, huh? Mind telling us a little bit more about them? Perhaps where they can be found? I suppose it's open source info. since you have no reservations about divulging the contents.

You know, without a source, the generic "field reports" are just rumor and conjecture.

Happy new year.

Justin



+1

Because of the 3 people (one being completely unrelated to the other 2) I know who have had the chance to shoot the SCARs a bit, none of them had anything but praises for the weapon.
jb241970  [Team Member]
1/3/2007 10:12:02 PM
All I know is if he .308 version for the civvie market is reliable, I would buy one, if it's priced under 2K.
LordStoner  [Member]
1/3/2007 10:23:06 PM

Originally Posted By jb241970:
All I know is if he .308 version for the civvie market is reliable, I would buy one, if it's priced under 2K.


From what I heard, the 7.62 version is the most inaccurate. It has a problem of "vertical stringing" with a warm barrel. The 5.56 version (light) has the same problem, but the 7.62 is worse.

David_A is correct, I was told the same about the feed back of the SCAR system. What a shame.

ls
cpekz  [Member]
1/3/2007 10:48:04 PM

Originally Posted By LordStoner:

Originally Posted By jb241970:
All I know is if he .308 version for the civvie market is reliable, I would buy one, if it's priced under 2K.


From what I heard, the 7.62 version is the most inaccurate. It has a problem of "vertical stringing" with a warm barrel. The 5.56 version (light) has the same problem, but the 7.62 is worse.

David_A is correct, I was told the same about the feed back of the SCAR system. What a shame.

ls


If this is true then that really blows because I was really looking forward to the release of the SCAR.
Master_Blaster  [Member]
1/4/2007 1:10:02 AM

Originally Posted By LordStoner:

Originally Posted By jb241970:
All I know is if he .308 version for the civvie market is reliable, I would buy one, if it's priced under 2K.


From what I heard, the 7.62 version is the most inaccurate. It has a problem of "vertical stringing" with a warm barrel. The 5.56 version (light) has the same problem, but the 7.62 is worse.

David_A is correct, I was told the same about the feed back of the SCAR system. What a shame.

ls


Program requirements called for (I think) 1.5" MOA. A heavy bbl. would alleviate flexure, if that is the cause of heat-related stringing issues. I imagine it's something that would be implemented if needed. That said, I have yet to see any offical statements regarding its performance, particularly that it has been subpar. The closest we have to "official" reports so far have come from very few regulars here who have access, Clint (havoc) probably being the resident authority around here on the subject, & I'm sure he's has limited license to post much information w/o approval.

I've never heard any negatives, particularly those being thrown around here.
kemp  [Member]
1/4/2007 5:58:45 AM
My money is on half of the reports about the SCAR sucking are from people who are pathological new-things-haters. The same breed who called the AR15 a 'mattel toy' back in the 60ies because it came with plastic furniture and fired a smaller round. There are a lot of people who simply mistrust new things. Time will tell, though, whether the SCAR is all it's supposed to be.

stephen_101st  [Team Member]
1/4/2007 6:49:43 AM

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By Munition:
Whats everyone here think of the new SOCOM rifle? According to FN, It looks like the SCAR has been chosen. see thread:

http://www.fnhusa.com/contents/News/PDFs/3-2-06_FN_SCAR_2.pdf

IF you ask me, the FN SCAR light and heavy are the real deal. I hear civilian models come out in 08. I also read in a Guns N Ammo magazine that the SCAR will replace the M16! Whats everyone think? Will you buy one? I think I will

Here are pics and info sites if you dont know what I'm talking about:

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as70-e.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_SCAR

http://www.impactguns.com/store/fn_scar.html


They have a contract....

600 rifles, no more...


Actually it's 1200 (600 L and 600 H in three different variants each).


Field reports say the weapon didn't live up to expectations (Big surprise, eh? It's not like this hasn't happened with every weapon tested since the M16 was adopted), and the contract will not be renewed....


Which field reports are you referring to? All of the EUA reports I have read have been glowing and very complimentary to the system. There have been a couple of recommend tweaks for sure, but overall the system seems to enjoy a very good reputation. Could I get some more info about these negative reports you've been reading?

Stephen
stephen_101st  [Team Member]
1/4/2007 9:20:18 AM

Originally Posted By LordStoner:

Originally Posted By jb241970:
All I know is if he .308 version for the civvie market is reliable, I would buy one, if it's priced under 2K.


From what I heard, the 7.62 version is the most inaccurate. It has a problem of "vertical stringing" with a warm barrel. The 5.56 version (light) has the same problem, but the 7.62 is worse.

David_A is correct, I was told the same about the feed back of the SCAR system. What a shame.

ls


Bollocks... Where do you guys get your "information?" Local gunshops don't count as a reliable source of info.

Stephen
wolver98  [Team Member]
1/6/2007 2:30:15 PM
I am buying a L & H if they are released to us.
olds442tyguy  [Member]
1/9/2007 7:57:08 PM

Originally Posted By Master_Blaster:
Program requirements called for (I think) 1.5" MOA.

I believe all of the SCAR rifles surpassed the .7 MOA requirement. I think the (formerly) SV variants were proven .5 MOA.

As for Dave_A, I'm sure he's a decent guy, his word is just worthless when it comes to rifles such as the SCAR. A person in the know (IE; doesn't make stuff up on the internet) said the SCAR rifles were near ready for field use. As with any new rifle system, don't expect to hear any info soon aside from the people online who have tongues sharper than their knives and no real info.
Master_Blaster  [Member]
1/10/2007 4:03:37 AM

Originally Posted By olds442tyguy:

Originally Posted By Master_Blaster:
Program requirements called for (I think) 1.5" MOA.

I believe all of the SCAR rifles surpassed the .7 MOA requirement. I think the (formerly) SV variants were proven .5 MOA.

As for Dave_A, I'm sure he's a decent guy, his word is just worthless when it comes to rifles such as the SCAR. A person in the know (IE; doesn't make stuff up on the internet) said the SCAR rifles were near ready for field use. As with any new rifle system, don't expect to hear any info soon aside from the people online who have tongues sharper than their knives and no real info.


Thanks for the clarification. I don't know why I thought it was 1.5 MOA. SHOT is this Thurs, so it will be interesting to hear any news. I presume late '08 for any commercial release at the earliest, legislative &/or judicial intervention not withstanding.
cyclone  [Team Member]
1/16/2007 3:30:56 PM
Pretty cool rifles...........I will get an L model should they come out as well