Archived Posts » 59,859,448
Raufoss Ammo
12/13/2010 8:54:21 PM
Is it worth the $.
Like many of you .50cal owners who have come to the realization that .50 BMG just isn't enough, I too have considered a 20mm rifle, but does .50 Raufoss provide 20mm performance in a .50BMG package. I have a friend that I think I might be able to talk into selling me one of his 20mm's but for 10-12$K I can buy a pile of Raufoss if it equals roughly the same performance.
Any thoughts and opinions are welcomed.
BTW the rifles he owns are a Lahti and a Solothurn 20mm.
Like many of you .50cal owners who have come to the realization that .50 BMG just isn't enough, I too have considered a 20mm rifle, but does .50 Raufoss provide 20mm performance in a .50BMG package. I have a friend that I think I might be able to talk into selling me one of his 20mm's but for 10-12$K I can buy a pile of Raufoss if it equals roughly the same performance.
Any thoughts and opinions are welcomed.
BTW the rifles he owns are a Lahti and a Solothurn 20mm.
12/13/2010 9:23:23 PM
Considering any Raufoss you buy is most likely stolen .gov property it doesn't seem like the way to go
12/13/2010 9:31:38 PM
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
Considering any Raufoss you buy is most likely stolen .gov property it doesn't seem like the way to go
Considering any Raufoss you buy is most likely stolen .gov property it doesn't seem like the way to go
Care to qualify that statement? Not sure I get it.
12/13/2010 9:51:27 PM
It is not all illegal ammo, when a company does independant testing with it for what ever it is (weapons platform, armor testing, or what ever) any ammo that they have left over is their property to dispose of as they wish (legally). This sublect has been hashed over many times over the years on many forums.
Ed
Ed
12/13/2010 9:56:40 PM
Originally Posted By competitor:
It is not all illegal ammo, when a company does independant testing with it for what ever it is (weapons platform, armor testing, or what ever) any ammo that they have left over is their property to dispose of as they wish (legally). This sublect has been hashed over many times over the years on many forums.
Ed
It is not all illegal ammo, when a company does independant testing with it for what ever it is (weapons platform, armor testing, or what ever) any ammo that they have left over is their property to dispose of as they wish (legally). This sublect has been hashed over many times over the years on many forums.
Ed
Ehhhhhh There's a lot that is from under the table.
12/13/2010 10:13:00 PM
Originally Posted By Madcap72:
Ehhhhhh There's a lot that is from under the table.
Originally Posted By competitor:
It is not all illegal ammo, when a company does independent testing with it for what ever it is (weapons platform, armor testing, or what ever) any ammo that they have left over is their property to dispose of as they wish (legally). This subject has been hashed over many times over the years on many forums.
Ed
It is not all illegal ammo, when a company does independent testing with it for what ever it is (weapons platform, armor testing, or what ever) any ammo that they have left over is their property to dispose of as they wish (legally). This subject has been hashed over many times over the years on many forums.
Ed
Ehhhhhh There's a lot that is from under the table.
I'm sure there is, but is the possetion of it illegal? (depending on state) and more importantly directed to my original question, does it have the capability of 20mmx138B ammo?
12/13/2010 10:28:14 PM
Possession of API and raoufouss is legal in most places, because there is under X (1/4 ounce?)amount of explosives in the round.
But I guess the real question is, what are you trying to accomplish? It makes a little spark and a puff cloud. It's cool if you're trying to smoke a vehicle or APC, but it's definitely not dramatic.
20mm on the other hand is a cannon meant to deliver a much larger payload, so any explosive rounds are going to be DD's along with the cannon. $200 transfer per explosive round. Solid rounds are going to be giant chunks of death, with a ridiculous amount of energy.
So I guess it's all in what you want.
But I guess the real question is, what are you trying to accomplish? It makes a little spark and a puff cloud. It's cool if you're trying to smoke a vehicle or APC, but it's definitely not dramatic.
20mm on the other hand is a cannon meant to deliver a much larger payload, so any explosive rounds are going to be DD's along with the cannon. $200 transfer per explosive round. Solid rounds are going to be giant chunks of death, with a ridiculous amount of energy.
So I guess it's all in what you want.
12/13/2010 11:25:35 PM
Originally Posted By Madcap72:
Possession of API and raoufouss is legal in most places, because there is under X (1/4 ounce?)amount of explosives in the round.
But I guess the real question is, what are you trying to accomplish? It makes a little spark and a puff cloud. It's cool if you're trying to smoke a vehicle or APC, but it's definitely not dramatic.
20mm on the other hand is a cannon meant to deliver a much larger payload, so any explosive rounds are going to be DD's along with the cannon. $200 transfer per explosive round. Solid rounds are going to be giant chunks of death, with a ridiculous amount of energy.
So I guess it's all in what you want.
Possession of API and raoufouss is legal in most places, because there is under X (1/4 ounce?)amount of explosives in the round.
But I guess the real question is, what are you trying to accomplish? It makes a little spark and a puff cloud. It's cool if you're trying to smoke a vehicle or APC, but it's definitely not dramatic.
20mm on the other hand is a cannon meant to deliver a much larger payload, so any explosive rounds are going to be DD's along with the cannon. $200 transfer per explosive round. Solid rounds are going to be giant chunks of death, with a ridiculous amount of energy.
So I guess it's all in what you want.
What I am looking for is does the .50BMG Raufoss equal the performance of a 20mm x 138B round in performance and penetration?
12/13/2010 11:28:48 PM
I bought 10 rounds from an A+ rated dealer on gunbroker with numerous sales. Paid about $21/round delivered. The same guy had a ammo can of 120 rounds for $1200 but I didn't have that kinda cash lying around.
12/13/2010 11:39:14 PM
Originally Posted By elcope:
What I am looking for is does the .50BMG Raufoss equal the performance of a 20mm x 138B round in performance and penetration?
What I am looking for is does the .50BMG Raufoss equal the performance of a 20mm x 138B round in performance and penetration?
Not even close.
12/13/2010 11:45:14 PM
Originally Posted By Reverend73:
I bought 10 rounds from an A+ rated dealer on gunbroker with numerous sales. Paid about $21/round delivered. The same guy had a ammo can of 120 rounds for $1200 but I didn't have that kinda cash lying around.
I bought 10 rounds from an A+ rated dealer on gunbroker with numerous sales. Paid about $21/round delivered. The same guy had a ammo can of 120 rounds for $1200 but I didn't have that kinda cash lying around.
Hate to be the bearer of bad news but that ammo isn't raufoss it's painted API. I've personally cut one open on a lathe. They will claim ignorance and refund your money if you complain.
12/13/2010 11:51:27 PM
Originally Posted By typer339:
Hate to be the bearer of bad news but that ammo isn't raufoss it's painted API. I've personally cut one open on a lathe. They will claim ignorance and refund your money if you complain.
Originally Posted By Reverend73:
I bought 10 rounds from an A+ rated dealer on gunbroker with numerous sales. Paid about $21/round delivered. The same guy had a ammo can of 120 rounds for $1200 but I didn't have that kinda cash lying around.
I bought 10 rounds from an A+ rated dealer on gunbroker with numerous sales. Paid about $21/round delivered. The same guy had a ammo can of 120 rounds for $1200 but I didn't have that kinda cash lying around.
Hate to be the bearer of bad news but that ammo isn't raufoss it's painted API. I've personally cut one open on a lathe. They will claim ignorance and refund your money if you complain.
I'll find out soon enough I suppose
12/14/2010 12:05:24 AM
Originally Posted By elcope:
What I am looking for is does the .50BMG Raufoss equal the performance of a 20mm x 138B round in performance and penetration?
Depends on the 20mm and .50 cal round, the target material, all sort of factors. Originally Posted By Madcap72:
Possession of API and raoufouss is legal in most places, because there is under X (1/4 ounce?)amount of explosives in the round.
But I guess the real question is, what are you trying to accomplish? It makes a little spark and a puff cloud. It's cool if you're trying to smoke a vehicle or APC, but it's definitely not dramatic.
20mm on the other hand is a cannon meant to deliver a much larger payload, so any explosive rounds are going to be DD's along with the cannon. $200 transfer per explosive round. Solid rounds are going to be giant chunks of death, with a ridiculous amount of energy.
So I guess it's all in what you want.
Possession of API and raoufouss is legal in most places, because there is under X (1/4 ounce?)amount of explosives in the round.
But I guess the real question is, what are you trying to accomplish? It makes a little spark and a puff cloud. It's cool if you're trying to smoke a vehicle or APC, but it's definitely not dramatic.
20mm on the other hand is a cannon meant to deliver a much larger payload, so any explosive rounds are going to be DD's along with the cannon. $200 transfer per explosive round. Solid rounds are going to be giant chunks of death, with a ridiculous amount of energy.
So I guess it's all in what you want.
What I am looking for is does the .50BMG Raufoss equal the performance of a 20mm x 138B round in performance and penetration?
For instance, a Raufoss round is supposed to be able to penetrate 11mm of hha at 1000 meters, but a .50 cal SLAP can penetrate 19mm of hha at 1500.
I don't know what 20mm's do as far as that, cause there's so many different types.
12/14/2010 12:08:24 AM
Originally Posted By typer339:
Hate to be the bearer of bad news but that ammo isn't raufoss it's painted API. I've personally cut one open on a lathe. They will claim ignorance and refund your money if you complain.
Originally Posted By Reverend73:
I bought 10 rounds from an A+ rated dealer on gunbroker with numerous sales. Paid about $21/round delivered. The same guy had a ammo can of 120 rounds for $1200 but I didn't have that kinda cash lying around.
I bought 10 rounds from an A+ rated dealer on gunbroker with numerous sales. Paid about $21/round delivered. The same guy had a ammo can of 120 rounds for $1200 but I didn't have that kinda cash lying around.
Hate to be the bearer of bad news but that ammo isn't raufoss it's painted API. I've personally cut one open on a lathe. They will claim ignorance and refund your money if you complain.
So, all Raufoss is fake?
12/14/2010 1:28:49 AM
Originally Posted By elcope:
So, all Raufoss is fake?
Originally Posted By typer339:
Hate to be the bearer of bad news but that ammo isn't raufoss it's painted API. I've personally cut one open on a lathe. They will claim ignorance and refund your money if you complain.
Originally Posted By Reverend73:
I bought 10 rounds from an A+ rated dealer on gunbroker with numerous sales. Paid about $21/round delivered. The same guy had a ammo can of 120 rounds for $1200 but I didn't have that kinda cash lying around.
I bought 10 rounds from an A+ rated dealer on gunbroker with numerous sales. Paid about $21/round delivered. The same guy had a ammo can of 120 rounds for $1200 but I didn't have that kinda cash lying around.
Hate to be the bearer of bad news but that ammo isn't raufoss it's painted API. I've personally cut one open on a lathe. They will claim ignorance and refund your money if you complain.
So, all Raufoss is fake?
No, there's definitely some real stuff out there. It's just that that guy doesn't sell it and I don't believe it's available anywhere, aside from gov entity, in the kind of quantities he's advertising.
12/14/2010 7:44:03 AM
Originally Posted By elcope:
Is it worth the $.
Like many of you .50cal owners who have come to the realization that .50 BMG just isn't enough, I too have considered a 20mm rifle, but does .50 Raufoss provide 20mm performance in a .50BMG package. I have a friend that I think I might be able to talk into selling me one of his 20mm's but for 10-12$K I can buy a pile of Raufoss if it equals roughly the same performance.
Any thoughts and opinions are welcomed.
BTW the rifles he owns are a Lahti and a Solothurn 20mm.
Is it worth the $.
Like many of you .50cal owners who have come to the realization that .50 BMG just isn't enough, I too have considered a 20mm rifle, but does .50 Raufoss provide 20mm performance in a .50BMG package. I have a friend that I think I might be able to talk into selling me one of his 20mm's but for 10-12$K I can buy a pile of Raufoss if it equals roughly the same performance.
Any thoughts and opinions are welcomed.
BTW the rifles he owns are a Lahti and a Solothurn 20mm.
NO! The .50 will have no where near the performance of the 20mm it does not matter as to the small amount of explosive in the raufoss. That explosive is not meant to help penetrate but to scatter shrapnel once the tungsten penetrator starts to punch through the metal. As for penetration it all depends on what the bullet is made from. For example a .308 AP round will penetrate a thicker piece of steel than a .50 ball ammo. With all thing being equal the .20mm has a tremendous amount more energy/penetration capability than that of the .50 no matter what they can cram into it.
Small amounts of explosives have very little capability to do anything to metal without being either shaped or contained none of which is happening with a raufoss round.
All you have to do is look at what an M1 Abram shoots to kill a tank is a fast moving sabot round with absolutely no explosives.
12/15/2010 4:42:09 PM
20mm target and target-tracer rounds have quite a bit of pyro effect due to the aluminum windscreen.
12/15/2010 8:25:14 PM
You'll shoot your eye out kid 
12/16/2010 9:45:30 PM
Originally Posted By Recoil737:
NO! The .50 will have no where near the performance of the 20mm it does not matter as to the small amount of explosive in the raufoss. That explosive is not meant to help penetrate but to scatter shrapnel once the tungsten penetrator starts to punch through the metal. As for penetration it all depends on what the bullet is made from. For example a .308 AP round will penetrate a thicker piece of steel than a .50 ball ammo. With all thing being equal the .20mm has a tremendous amount more energy/penetration capability than that of the .50 no matter what they can cram into it.
Small amounts of explosives have very little capability to do anything to metal without being either shaped or contained none of which is happening with a raufoss round.
All you have to do is look at what an M1 Abram shoots to kill a tank is a fast moving sabot round with absolutely no explosives.
Originally Posted By elcope:
Is it worth the $.
Like many of you .50cal owners who have come to the realization that .50 BMG just isn't enough, I too have considered a 20mm rifle, but does .50 Raufoss provide 20mm performance in a .50BMG package. I have a friend that I think I might be able to talk into selling me one of his 20mm's but for 10-12$K I can buy a pile of Raufoss if it equals roughly the same performance.
Any thoughts and opinions are welcomed.
BTW the rifles he owns are a Lahti and a Solothurn 20mm.
Is it worth the $.
Like many of you .50cal owners who have come to the realization that .50 BMG just isn't enough, I too have considered a 20mm rifle, but does .50 Raufoss provide 20mm performance in a .50BMG package. I have a friend that I think I might be able to talk into selling me one of his 20mm's but for 10-12$K I can buy a pile of Raufoss if it equals roughly the same performance.
Any thoughts and opinions are welcomed.
BTW the rifles he owns are a Lahti and a Solothurn 20mm.
NO! The .50 will have no where near the performance of the 20mm it does not matter as to the small amount of explosive in the raufoss. That explosive is not meant to help penetrate but to scatter shrapnel once the tungsten penetrator starts to punch through the metal. As for penetration it all depends on what the bullet is made from. For example a .308 AP round will penetrate a thicker piece of steel than a .50 ball ammo. With all thing being equal the .20mm has a tremendous amount more energy/penetration capability than that of the .50 no matter what they can cram into it.
Small amounts of explosives have very little capability to do anything to metal without being either shaped or contained none of which is happening with a raufoss round.
All you have to do is look at what an M1 Abram shoots to kill a tank is a fast moving sabot round with absolutely no explosives.
Bingo.
MK211 has an AP capability but it's real asset is the fragmentation effect and the incendiary effect on the back side of the thin armor that makes it worth dicking around with. Want to just put holes in things? Use regular KE AP. Want to set it on fire and destroy the soft innards on the backside? Either API or MK211.
20mm, WHOLE NOTHER PLAY GROUND.
I would love to see what just the practice rounds could do against something like my 1 1/4 inch steel plate that I've shot with 50BMG M2 AP. Given the construction of the 20mm practice rounds and the KE involved it would be a real fun day at the range, even at 8 dollars a pop I think I've got 100-150 bucks worth of fun I could have in evaluating the practice round.
