Archived Posts ｻ 59,726,163
m16 squad light machine gun
2/25/2012 7:35:21 AM
I have recently become interested in building an AR upper that can be used for sustained fire, with the eventual goal of owning an m16 lower. While looking around, I found these m16 variants that are set up with a squad automatic weapon concept in mind. The only upper that I have found that would lend itself well to this concept is made by blackthorn. My other idea was using a target barrel and make my own version, but i cannot find a bull target barrel with chrome lining.
Looking for ideas on what barrels or upper assemblies could work well.
Thanks
Looking for ideas on what barrels or upper assemblies could work well.
Thanks
2/25/2012 7:34:15 AM
Blackthorn is Hesse and is also Vulcan. The worst trash on the market. Do not buy any of that.
Also, be prepared to spend between $15 and $20 thousand dollars for a registered lower, if not more.
ETA: You live in New York. You better check your local laws too.
Also, be prepared to spend between $15 and $20 thousand dollars for a registered lower, if not more.
ETA: You live in New York. You better check your local laws too.
2/25/2012 11:58:37 AM
Originally Posted By dudish:
I have recently become interested in building an AR upper that can be used for sustained fire, with the eventual goal of owning an m16 lower. While looking around, I found these m16 variants that are set up with a squad automatic weapon concept in mind. The only upper that I have found that would lend itself well to this concept is made by blackthorn. My other idea was using a target barrel and make my own version, but i cannot find a bull target barrel with chrome lining.
Looking for ideas on what barrels or upper assemblies could work well.
Thanks
I have recently become interested in building an AR upper that can be used for sustained fire, with the eventual goal of owning an m16 lower. While looking around, I found these m16 variants that are set up with a squad automatic weapon concept in mind. The only upper that I have found that would lend itself well to this concept is made by blackthorn. My other idea was using a target barrel and make my own version, but i cannot find a bull target barrel with chrome lining.
Looking for ideas on what barrels or upper assemblies could work well.
Thanks
Sadly, in New York, it's citizens are not free anymore, and you are not allowed to own full auto weapons. I also think they still have the lame "assault weapons" ban there that accomplishes nothing except making your AR15 look stupid. You need to move down here man
2/25/2012 1:39:22 PM
This thread might be of interest to you.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_29/213260_Upcoming_civilian_Colt_IAR.html
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_29/213260_Upcoming_civilian_Colt_IAR.html
2/26/2012 9:02:58 PM
Im aware of full auto purchasing requirements and costs. Luckily for me, I have not lived in NY for a few years. Im not overly concerned with keeping my profile updated.
Thanks SSGJason. That was a good thread that led me to the conclusion that blackthorn is the only one selling uppers like the IAR. Which saddens me for obvious reasons of quality.
Im currently petitioning DSA in their industry forum to correct the situation with their prototype.
Thanks SSGJason. That was a good thread that led me to the conclusion that blackthorn is the only one selling uppers like the IAR. Which saddens me for obvious reasons of quality.
Im currently petitioning DSA in their industry forum to correct the situation with their prototype.
2/26/2012 10:44:20 PM
Originally Posted By dudish:
Im aware of full auto purchasing requirements and costs. Luckily for me, I have not lived in NY for a few years. Im not overly concerned with keeping my profile updated.
Thanks SSGJason. That was a good thread that led me to the conclusion that blackthorn is the only one selling uppers like the IAR. Which saddens me for obvious reasons of quality.
Im currently petitioning DSA in their industry forum to correct the situation with their prototype.
Im aware of full auto purchasing requirements and costs. Luckily for me, I have not lived in NY for a few years. Im not overly concerned with keeping my profile updated.
Thanks SSGJason. That was a good thread that led me to the conclusion that blackthorn is the only one selling uppers like the IAR. Which saddens me for obvious reasons of quality.
Im currently petitioning DSA in their industry forum to correct the situation with their prototype.
You can find colts. That would be my first choice if I ever did want something such as what you are seeking. They aren't cheap, $1500~ starting from what I've seen sell, but they are out there, and would be the best quality for one if you have your heart set on one.
2/27/2012 6:31:47 AM
Originally Posted By damcv62:
You can find colts. That would be my first choice if I ever did want something such as what you are seeking. They aren't cheap, $1500~ starting from what I've seen sell, but they are out there, and would be the best quality for one if you have your heart set on one.
Originally Posted By dudish:
Im aware of full auto purchasing requirements and costs. Luckily for me, I have not lived in NY for a few years. Im not overly concerned with keeping my profile updated.
Thanks SSGJason. That was a good thread that led me to the conclusion that blackthorn is the only one selling uppers like the IAR. Which saddens me for obvious reasons of quality.
Im currently petitioning DSA in their industry forum to correct the situation with their prototype.
Im aware of full auto purchasing requirements and costs. Luckily for me, I have not lived in NY for a few years. Im not overly concerned with keeping my profile updated.
Thanks SSGJason. That was a good thread that led me to the conclusion that blackthorn is the only one selling uppers like the IAR. Which saddens me for obvious reasons of quality.
Im currently petitioning DSA in their industry forum to correct the situation with their prototype.
You can find colts. That would be my first choice if I ever did want something such as what you are seeking. They aren't cheap, $1500~ starting from what I've seen sell, but they are out there, and would be the best quality for one if you have your heart set on one.
What markings will a Colt have??
2/27/2012 9:08:30 PM
Originally Posted By Chas8008:
What markings will a Colt have??
What markings will a Colt have??
I'll dig mine out and check the markings.
But FWIW, they all were manufactured in Canada by Diemaco (the Colt subsidiary) 末 none were ever produced in Hartford. Colt imported a batch of maybe 2,000 about 15 years ago and tried for LE/mil contracts, but no one bought any, so they sold them off as uppers only. All of that batch were A2 fixed-handle uppers, but of course with no forward assists since they are designed to shoot in open-bolt configuration.
That was the only batch to officially get imported, and Diemaco will only export for LE/military sales, so with no contracts ... there are no more in the U.S.
Diemaco currently makes an A3 flattop version, but they have never been imported. In all my research, I have only seen one in civilian hands in the U.S.
BTW, if you had looked me up at Hernando, I could have shown you my Colt LMG and even let ya shoot it. I had it with me but kept it in the hard case because it was a little too crowded. I was at the bench right next to Osprey, and was hoping you would stop by to say "Hi!" ...
2/27/2012 9:40:59 PM
Originally Posted By tony_k:
I'll dig mine out and check the markings.
But FWIW, they all were manufactured in Canada by Diemaco (the Colt subsidiary) 末 none were ever produced in Hartford. Colt imported a batch of maybe 2,000 about 15 years ago and tried for LE/mil contracts, but no one bought any, so they sold them off as uppers only. All of that batch were A2 fixed-handle uppers, but of course with no forward assists since they are designed to shoot in open-bolt configuration.
That was the only batch to officially get imported, and Diemaco will only export for LE/military sales, so with no contracts ... there are no more in the U.S.
Diemaco currently makes an A3 flattop version, but they have never been imported. In all my research, I have only seen one in civilian hands in the U.S.
BTW, if you had looked me up at Hernando, I could have shown you my Colt LMG and even let ya shoot it. I had it with me but kept it in the hard case because it was a little too crowded. I was at the bench right next to Osprey, and was hoping you would stop by to say "Hi!" ...
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/for_sale_008.jpg
Originally Posted By Chas8008:
What markings will a Colt have??
What markings will a Colt have??
I'll dig mine out and check the markings.
But FWIW, they all were manufactured in Canada by Diemaco (the Colt subsidiary) 末 none were ever produced in Hartford. Colt imported a batch of maybe 2,000 about 15 years ago and tried for LE/mil contracts, but no one bought any, so they sold them off as uppers only. All of that batch were A2 fixed-handle uppers, but of course with no forward assists since they are designed to shoot in open-bolt configuration.
That was the only batch to officially get imported, and Diemaco will only export for LE/military sales, so with no contracts ... there are no more in the U.S.
Diemaco currently makes an A3 flattop version, but they have never been imported. In all my research, I have only seen one in civilian hands in the U.S.
BTW, if you had looked me up at Hernando, I could have shown you my Colt LMG and even let ya shoot it. I had it with me but kept it in the hard case because it was a little too crowded. I was at the bench right next to Osprey, and was hoping you would stop by to say "Hi!" ...
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/for_sale_008.jpg
Wow, that's cool.
2/27/2012 9:50:12 PM
Yup. The barrel is way thicker and heavier than an HBAR. And the gas tube is thicker, too, so it can handle a whole lot more heavy fire.
The downside is, because the LMG is not presently sold by Colt, it is an unsupported configuration in the U.S. and thus they do not stock or import replacement parts. You're pretty much on your own.
FWIW, several LMG owners have fabricated replacement heavy gas tubes out of brake-line stock tubing. But AFAIK, no one is currently making them for sale.
The downside is, because the LMG is not presently sold by Colt, it is an unsupported configuration in the U.S. and thus they do not stock or import replacement parts. You're pretty much on your own.
FWIW, several LMG owners have fabricated replacement heavy gas tubes out of brake-line stock tubing. But AFAIK, no one is currently making them for sale.
2/27/2012 9:58:07 PM
Originally Posted By tony_k:
I'll dig mine out and check the markings.
But FWIW, they all were manufactured in Canada by Diemaco (the Colt subsidiary) 末 none were ever produced in Hartford. Colt imported a batch of maybe 2,000 about 15 years ago and tried for LE/mil contracts, but no one bought any, so they sold them off as uppers only. All of that batch were A2 fixed-handle uppers, but of course with no forward assists since they are designed to shoot in open-bolt configuration.
That was the only batch to officially get imported, and Diemaco will only export for LE/military sales, so with no contracts ... there are no more in the U.S.
Diemaco currently makes an A3 flattop version, but they have never been imported. In all my research, I have only seen one in civilian hands in the U.S.
BTW, if you had looked me up at Hernando, I could have shown you my Colt LMG and even let ya shoot it. I had it with me but kept it in the hard case because it was a little too crowded. I was at the bench right next to Osprey, and was hoping you would stop by to say "Hi!" ...
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/for_sale_008.jpg
Talk about ships in the night.Originally Posted By Chas8008:
What markings will a Colt have??
What markings will a Colt have??
I'll dig mine out and check the markings.
But FWIW, they all were manufactured in Canada by Diemaco (the Colt subsidiary) 末 none were ever produced in Hartford. Colt imported a batch of maybe 2,000 about 15 years ago and tried for LE/mil contracts, but no one bought any, so they sold them off as uppers only. All of that batch were A2 fixed-handle uppers, but of course with no forward assists since they are designed to shoot in open-bolt configuration.
That was the only batch to officially get imported, and Diemaco will only export for LE/military sales, so with no contracts ... there are no more in the U.S.
Diemaco currently makes an A3 flattop version, but they have never been imported. In all my research, I have only seen one in civilian hands in the U.S.
BTW, if you had looked me up at Hernando, I could have shown you my Colt LMG and even let ya shoot it. I had it with me but kept it in the hard case because it was a little too crowded. I was at the bench right next to Osprey, and was hoping you would stop by to say "Hi!" ...
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/for_sale_008.jpg
O21, Monkey_W drove together.
I was wearing a white long shirt, with the Mac and Sten mk11, and shot about 3 dozon golfballs with my A1 Clone.
O21, M_W, and myself were on one table. Steve (Elfd) was to my left, and Mark with the beltfeed MG 34? Hk 53, and krink was to my right, to his right was a guy with a 32cal scorpion, and a Reising.
where were you?
Edit,
I read the other thread.
in the video you closed it with Steve's m11 in 22, and you talked about a slidefire. There was a guy to my left shoot a sildefire. Thanks for all the brass
2/27/2012 10:08:54 PM
Originally Posted By Chas8008:
O21, M_W, and myself were on one table. Steve (Elfd) was to my left, and Mark with the beltfeed MG 34? Hk 53, and krink was to my right, to his right was a guy with a 32cal scorpion, and a Reising.
where were you?
O21, M_W, and myself were on one table. Steve (Elfd) was to my left, and Mark with the beltfeed MG 34? Hk 53, and krink was to my right, to his right was a guy with a 32cal scorpion, and a Reising.
where were you?
I was on the other side of Steve, with my son and grandson. Check Monkey_Wrench's video in the Hernando thread 末 I'm the guy at the very end who does a mag dump through Steve's M11 .22 conversion and says, "That's a hoot!"
We can't go on not meeting like this.
2/27/2012 10:12:52 PM
Originally Posted By tony_k:
I was on the other side of Steve, with my son and grandson. Check Monkey_Wrench's video in the Hernando thread 末 I'm the guy at the very end who does a mag dump through Steve's M11 .22 conversion and says, "That's a hoot!"
We can't go on not meeting like this.
Originally Posted By Chas8008:
O21, M_W, and myself were on one table. Steve (Elfd) was to my left, and Mark with the beltfeed MG 34? Hk 53, and krink was to my right, to his right was a guy with a 32cal scorpion, and a Reising.
where were you?
O21, M_W, and myself were on one table. Steve (Elfd) was to my left, and Mark with the beltfeed MG 34? Hk 53, and krink was to my right, to his right was a guy with a 32cal scorpion, and a Reising.
where were you?
I was on the other side of Steve, with my son and grandson. Check Monkey_Wrench's video in the Hernando thread 末 I'm the guy at the very end who does a mag dump through Steve's M11 .22 conversion and says, "That's a hoot!"
We can't go on not meeting like this.
Ok, was your grandson with the 20ga sbs?
He shot my 45 mauser.
If you watch the video you can see my sten and me shooting the Glock 18
Did George knock your coffee over?
2/27/2012 10:17:37 PM
Yeah, he really liked the .45 Mauser –– Thanks! Guess if I had thanked you myself ...
Anyway, let's return this thread to the OP.
My advice: Track down a Colt LMG. There really is no alternative I know of, for heavy use durability.
Anyway, let's return this thread to the OP.
My advice: Track down a Colt LMG. There really is no alternative I know of, for heavy use durability.
2/27/2012 10:19:46 PM
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=275357879
flat top on Gun Broker for $1,900
or is that something the guy made as this one has a forward assist?
flat top on Gun Broker for $1,900
or is that something the guy made as this one has a forward assist?
2/27/2012 10:41:35 PM
Originally Posted By sardo_67:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=275357879
flat top on Gun Broker for $1,900
or is that something the guy made as this one has a forward assist?
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=275357879
flat top on Gun Broker for $1,900
or is that something the guy made as this one has a forward assist?
The spec for the LMG design is for no FA, because attempting to use the FA with the open-bolt carrier can jam or seriously damage it. There was a limited run of closed- bolt LMGs for a European country, but it was never a catalogued or production variation.
That's not to say that someone at Hartford didn't come across a case of LMG front ends and throw these together to clear some space, but I would be very wary before dropping almost $2k on one unless it had documentation from Colt.
Also note that these have neither a bipod, nor the even rarer bipod mount collar. You could try to adapt the HBAR bipod collar that Colt used to mount the M60 bipods on HBAR M16s, but the HBAR collar I have would not fit my LMG barrel without some serious machining to fit the fatter BBL.
Just sayin'.
2/27/2012 10:45:55 PM
Originally Posted By tony_k:
Yeah, he really liked the .45 Mauser 末 Thanks! Guess if I had thanked you myself ...
Anyway, let's return this thread to the OP.
My advice: Track down a Colt LMG. There really is no alternative I know of, for heavy use durability.
This was the host gun I picked up with the RLL. It will be here this week, USP has not given ma a delivery date.Yeah, he really liked the .45 Mauser 末 Thanks! Guess if I had thanked you myself ...
Anyway, let's return this thread to the OP.
My advice: Track down a Colt LMG. There really is no alternative I know of, for heavy use durability.
But it looks a lot like your's Tony.
They are valued about $1500 for a A2 ver. Right?
2/27/2012 10:56:12 PM
They used to be up around $2k in minty shape until the Shrike started really shipping, because up 'till then an LMG and a Betamag was the high-volume solution. Today, I'd say that $1.5k is right on the mark for a nice one, a couple hundred more if it is unfired.
If yours arrives without a Colt factory manual, shoot me an IM or call 末 I think I have an extra one around here somewhere.
If yours arrives without a Colt factory manual, shoot me an IM or call 末 I think I have an extra one around here somewhere.
2/28/2012 10:42:57 AM
One last note on the Colt LMGs:
Due to the 20" barrel and the different gas tube, LMG uppers often will not run consistently in full-auto with a regular carbine-length receiver extension (bufer tube), no matter what buffer you use. That's an unsupporteded configuration, too.
However, if ya don't want to run a rifle buttstock, the new Vltor A5 receiver extension appears to solve the problem (at least, I haven't heard of a single instance where it didn't). The extra 7/8" length, and the use of a rifle spring instead of the shorter carbine spring, makes all the difference.
Just a heads-up for you guys.
Due to the 20" barrel and the different gas tube, LMG uppers often will not run consistently in full-auto with a regular carbine-length receiver extension (bufer tube), no matter what buffer you use. That's an unsupporteded configuration, too.
However, if ya don't want to run a rifle buttstock, the new Vltor A5 receiver extension appears to solve the problem (at least, I haven't heard of a single instance where it didn't). The extra 7/8" length, and the use of a rifle spring instead of the shorter carbine spring, makes all the difference.
Just a heads-up for you guys.
2/28/2012 4:04:19 PM
Here's my LWRC M6A4 IAR upper (top rail removed) on a semi lower. 16.5" radially fluted med-heavy barrel, midlength piston, 4-position gas block. I'm hoping to have them convert my Group Ind. lower to accept their open bolt/closed bolt trigger pack but it has to be submitted to ATF Technology Branch to determine if the lower or sear pack will be the registered part. I'm hoping lower, otherwise I'm out of luck.
2/28/2012 7:33:46 PM
My old LMG upper -it was a dream to shoot on the M16.
2/28/2012 8:49:27 PM
Gosh do ALL the cool Kids have one of these!?!?!?!
Oh my tracking info:
I should have it by noon.
Originally Posted By osprey21:
My old LMG upper -it was a dream to shoot on the M16.
http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=37619&prev=1
My old LMG upper -it was a dream to shoot on the M16.
http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=37619&prev=1
Oh my tracking info:
I should have it by noon.
| Jacksonville, FL, United States | 02/28/2012 | 8:37 P.M. | Departure Scan |
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02/28/2012 | 5:04 P.M. | Arrival Scan |
| Forest Park, GA, United States | 02/28/2012 | 8:48 A.M. | Departure Scan |
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02/28/2012 | 2:38 A.M. | Arrival Scan |
| Doraville, GA, United States | 02/28/2012 | 2:03 A.M. | Departure Scan |
| Doraville, GA, United States | 02/27/2012 | 11:50 P.M. | Arrival Scan |
| Earth City, MO, United States | 02/27/2012 | 1:12 P.M. | Departure Scan |
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02/27/2012 | 10:42 A.M. | Arrival Scan |
| Kansas City, KS, United States | 02/27/2012 | 6:45 A.M. | Departure Scan |
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02/27/2012 | 5:13 A.M. | Arrival Scan |
| Commerce City, CO, United States | 02/26/2012 | 5:49 P.M. | Departure Scan |
| Commerce City, CO, United States | 02/24/2012 | 4:15 P.M. | Arrival Scan |
| Salt Lake City, UT, United States | 02/24/2012 | 6:07 A.M. | Departure Scan |
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02/24/2012 | 12:20 A.M. | Arrival Scan |
| Roseburg, OR, United States | 02/23/2012 | 1:30 A.M. | Departure Scan |
| Roseburg, OR, United States | 02/22/2012 | 10:35 P.M. | Arrival Scan |
| North Bend, OR, United States | 02/22/2012 | 8:27 P.M. | Departure Scan |
| United States | 02/22/2012 | 8:00 P.M. | Order Processed: Ready for UPS |
2/28/2012 8:54:18 PM
Originally Posted By Chas8008:
Gosh do ALL the cool Kids have one of these!?!?!?!
Gosh do ALL the cool Kids have one of these!?!?!?!
Well .... yeah, we do.
2/29/2012 12:11:48 PM
Originally Posted By 300LW:
Here's my LWRC M6A4 IAR upper (top rail removed) on a semi lower. 16.5" radially fluted med-heavy barrel, midlength piston, 4-position gas block. I'm hoping to have them convert my Group Ind. lower to accept their open bolt/closed bolt trigger pack but it has to be submitted to ATF Technology Branch to determine if the lower or sear pack will be the registered part. I'm hoping lower, otherwise I'm out of luck.
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn73/300LW/036.jpg
Here's my LWRC M6A4 IAR upper (top rail removed) on a semi lower. 16.5" radially fluted med-heavy barrel, midlength piston, 4-position gas block. I'm hoping to have them convert my Group Ind. lower to accept their open bolt/closed bolt trigger pack but it has to be submitted to ATF Technology Branch to determine if the lower or sear pack will be the registered part. I'm hoping lower, otherwise I'm out of luck.
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn73/300LW/036.jpg
How'd you get the M6A4? I'd love to have one on my m16 lower.
2/29/2012 6:12:39 PM
Originally Posted By calvin84:
How'd you get the M6A4? I'd love to have one on my m16 lower.
Originally Posted By 300LW:
Here's my LWRC M6A4 IAR upper (top rail removed) on a semi lower. 16.5" radially fluted med-heavy barrel, midlength piston, 4-position gas block. I'm hoping to have them convert my Group Ind. lower to accept their open bolt/closed bolt trigger pack but it has to be submitted to ATF Technology Branch to determine if the lower or sear pack will be the registered part. I'm hoping lower, otherwise I'm out of luck.
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn73/300LW/036.jpg
Here's my LWRC M6A4 IAR upper (top rail removed) on a semi lower. 16.5" radially fluted med-heavy barrel, midlength piston, 4-position gas block. I'm hoping to have them convert my Group Ind. lower to accept their open bolt/closed bolt trigger pack but it has to be submitted to ATF Technology Branch to determine if the lower or sear pack will be the registered part. I'm hoping lower, otherwise I'm out of luck.
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn73/300LW/036.jpg
How'd you get the M6A4? I'd love to have one on my m16 lower.
As far as I know this is the only one in the wild and there are no plans to make them available. Hopefully that will change.
Where in TX are you?
3/1/2012 10:17:11 AM
ok got it yesterday.
Does this look to be a real Colt or a knock off?
gun
upper with a slight reinforcement where the Foreword Assist should be.
SP on the fsb
Barrel
This gun was set-up to run with a LL so it was a SP1 carrier.
carrier group
Says TC on carrier
says CE on the Bolt
Weird coloring on the mouth of the carrier.
Does this look to be a real Colt or a knock off?
gun
upper with a slight reinforcement where the Foreword Assist should be.
SP on the fsb
Barrel
This gun was set-up to run with a LL so it was a SP1 carrier.
carrier group
Says TC on carrier
says CE on the Bolt
Weird coloring on the mouth of the carrier.
3/1/2012 10:51:00 AM
Carrier is not original, since it was used with an LL, an SP1 spec carrier had to be swapped in. The "weird coloring" is the chrome lining on the inside.
ETA: carrier is Toolcraft, cage code 1B1B6, currently (mid-2011 onward) supplying DPMS and Bushmaster, I've read. http://www.toolcraftinc.com/#!products
Delta-D on the barrel looks like Diemaco (correct), with correct LMG barrel part number.
ETA: carrier is Toolcraft, cage code 1B1B6, currently (mid-2011 onward) supplying DPMS and Bushmaster, I've read. http://www.toolcraftinc.com/#!products
Delta-D on the barrel looks like Diemaco (correct), with correct LMG barrel part number.
3/1/2012 11:51:41 AM
Originally Posted By 300LW:
As far as I know this is the only one in the wild and there are no plans to make them available. Hopefully that will change.
Where in TX are you?
Originally Posted By calvin84:
How'd you get the M6A4? I'd love to have one on my m16 lower.
Originally Posted By 300LW:
Here's my LWRC M6A4 IAR upper (top rail removed) on a semi lower. 16.5" radially fluted med-heavy barrel, midlength piston, 4-position gas block. I'm hoping to have them convert my Group Ind. lower to accept their open bolt/closed bolt trigger pack but it has to be submitted to ATF Technology Branch to determine if the lower or sear pack will be the registered part. I'm hoping lower, otherwise I'm out of luck.
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn73/300LW/036.jpg
Here's my LWRC M6A4 IAR upper (top rail removed) on a semi lower. 16.5" radially fluted med-heavy barrel, midlength piston, 4-position gas block. I'm hoping to have them convert my Group Ind. lower to accept their open bolt/closed bolt trigger pack but it has to be submitted to ATF Technology Branch to determine if the lower or sear pack will be the registered part. I'm hoping lower, otherwise I'm out of luck.
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn73/300LW/036.jpg
How'd you get the M6A4? I'd love to have one on my m16 lower.
As far as I know this is the only one in the wild and there are no plans to make them available. Hopefully that will change.
Where in TX are you?
That's really cool that you got one. I'm in Austin.
3/1/2012 6:04:27 PM
Originally Posted By Chas8008:
ok got it yesterday.
Does this look to be a real Colt or a knock off?
ok got it yesterday.
Does this look to be a real Colt or a knock off?
Trust me, if/when you see a knock-off, you'll know it.
3/2/2012 6:18:16 PM
Originally Posted By Circuits:
Carrier is not original, since it was used with an LL, an SP1 spec carrier had to be swapped in. The "weird coloring" is the chrome lining on the inside.
ETA: carrier is Toolcraft, cage code 1B1B6, currently (mid-2011 onward) supplying DPMS and Bushmaster, I've read. http://www.toolcraftinc.com/#!products
Delta-D on the barrel looks like Diemaco (correct), with correct LMG barrel part number.
Carrier is not original, since it was used with an LL, an SP1 spec carrier had to be swapped in. The "weird coloring" is the chrome lining on the inside.
ETA: carrier is Toolcraft, cage code 1B1B6, currently (mid-2011 onward) supplying DPMS and Bushmaster, I've read. http://www.toolcraftinc.com/#!products
Delta-D on the barrel looks like Diemaco (correct), with correct LMG barrel part number.
Hum, Thanks.
Timing is weird. The widow sold the LL back to the dealer via form 4, it was appoved in Nov-11.. So I think the dealer put the SP1 in the upper..
3/5/2012 7:26:35 AM
Originally Posted By osprey21:
Trust me, if/when you see a knock-off, you'll know it.
Originally Posted By Chas8008:
ok got it yesterday.
Does this look to be a real Colt or a knock off?
ok got it yesterday.
Does this look to be a real Colt or a knock off?
Trust me, if/when you see a knock-off, you'll know it.
Well she ran, ran, and ran some more last Sunday on M_W's Lower
.3/5/2012 12:02:50 PM
My uncle has one of the flat top model. It fires from an open bolt and is very fun and controllable to shoot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WriIGNW1nKY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WriIGNW1nKY
3/5/2012 6:01:32 PM
Originally Posted By sgthatred:
My uncle has one of the flat top model. It fires from an open bolt and is very fun and controllable to shoot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WriIGNW1nKY
http://home.comcast.net/~sfischer397/m16a2oblmg/m16a2oblmgpics/LSW3.jpg
Uncle Mongo, no doubt.My uncle has one of the flat top model. It fires from an open bolt and is very fun and controllable to shoot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WriIGNW1nKY
http://home.comcast.net/~sfischer397/m16a2oblmg/m16a2oblmgpics/LSW3.jpg
3/5/2012 6:41:24 PM
Originally Posted By sgthatred:
My uncle has one of the flat top model. It fires from an open bolt and is very fun and controllable to shoot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WriIGNW1nKY
http://home.comcast.net/~sfischer397/m16a2oblmg/m16a2oblmgpics/LSW3.jpg
How does the open bolt work???My uncle has one of the flat top model. It fires from an open bolt and is very fun and controllable to shoot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WriIGNW1nKY
http://home.comcast.net/~sfischer397/m16a2oblmg/m16a2oblmgpics/LSW3.jpg
3/5/2012 6:56:44 PM
Originally Posted By Chas8008:
Originally Posted By sgthatred:
My uncle has one of the flat top model. It fires from an open bolt and is very fun and controllable to shoot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WriIGNW1nKY
http://home.comcast.net/~sfischer397/m16a2oblmg/m16a2oblmgpics/LSW3.jpg
How does the open bolt work???My uncle has one of the flat top model. It fires from an open bolt and is very fun and controllable to shoot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WriIGNW1nKY
http://home.comcast.net/~sfischer397/m16a2oblmg/m16a2oblmgpics/LSW3.jpg
http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat4433610.pdf
3/6/2012 4:26:37 PM
Originally Posted By sgthatred:
My uncle has one of the flat top model. It fires from an open bolt and is very fun and controllable to shoot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WriIGNW1nKY
http://home.comcast.net/~sfischer397/m16a2oblmg/m16a2oblmgpics/LSW3.jpg
My uncle has one of the flat top model. It fires from an open bolt and is very fun and controllable to shoot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WriIGNW1nKY
http://home.comcast.net/~sfischer397/m16a2oblmg/m16a2oblmgpics/LSW3.jpg
Man if Mongo was my uncle I would kiss his ass all the time to try and make sure that open bolt MG stayed in the family
3/6/2012 4:50:36 PM
Awesome-I learned something new too. I thought LWRC was brilliant for their open bolt, never realizing it had been done before 
3/6/2012 9:15:40 PM
That's the chrome lining in the bore of the carrier were the bolt rides. Is that an unshrouded carrier ?
ETA OPPS should have read page 2
I'm a cheap bastard. I picked up a used flat top bushey upper that has a H-Bar barrel in it to do Beta mag dumps out of. I have $300.00 total into the upper and that incl. the KAC rail. It would seem to me that if one was to dump 3 beta mag non stop though one of those uppers even with the heavy gas tube. The chrome lining of the barrel is only going to take so much and when thats gone , well the barrel would go down hill that much faster. Thats not to mention gas port errosion too.
ETA OPPS should have read page 2
I'm a cheap bastard. I picked up a used flat top bushey upper that has a H-Bar barrel in it to do Beta mag dumps out of. I have $300.00 total into the upper and that incl. the KAC rail. It would seem to me that if one was to dump 3 beta mag non stop though one of those uppers even with the heavy gas tube. The chrome lining of the barrel is only going to take so much and when thats gone , well the barrel would go down hill that much faster. Thats not to mention gas port errosion too.
3/6/2012 10:18:45 PM
Originally Posted By ReefRaider:
That's the chrome lining in the bore of the carrier were the bolt rides. Is that an unshrouded carrier ?
ETA OPPS should have read page 2
I'm a cheap bastard. I picked up a used flat top bushey upper that has a H-Bar barrel in it to do Beta mag dumps out of. I have $300.00 total into the upper and that incl. the KAC rail. It would seem to me that if one was to dump 3 beta mag non stop though one of those uppers even with the heavy gas tube. The chrome lining of the barrel is only going to take so much and when thats gone , well the barrel would go down hill that much faster. Thats not to mention gas port errosion too.
here is my upper on M_W's lower, That's the chrome lining in the bore of the carrier were the bolt rides. Is that an unshrouded carrier ?
ETA OPPS should have read page 2
I'm a cheap bastard. I picked up a used flat top bushey upper that has a H-Bar barrel in it to do Beta mag dumps out of. I have $300.00 total into the upper and that incl. the KAC rail. It would seem to me that if one was to dump 3 beta mag non stop though one of those uppers even with the heavy gas tube. The chrome lining of the barrel is only going to take so much and when thats gone , well the barrel would go down hill that much faster. Thats not to mention gas port errosion too.
http://vimeo.com/38065766
3/7/2012 12:11:40 PM
Originally Posted By Chas8008:
Originally Posted By sgthatred:
My uncle has one of the flat top model. It fires from an open bolt and is very fun and controllable to shoot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WriIGNW1nKY
http://home.comcast.net/~sfischer397/m16a2oblmg/m16a2oblmgpics/LSW3.jpg
How does the open bolt work???My uncle has one of the flat top model. It fires from an open bolt and is very fun and controllable to shoot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WriIGNW1nKY
http://home.comcast.net/~sfischer397/m16a2oblmg/m16a2oblmgpics/LSW3.jpg
3/7/2012 12:13:20 PM
Originally Posted By osprey21:
Yes, have you shot with him before?Originally Posted By sgthatred:
My uncle has one of the flat top model. It fires from an open bolt and is very fun and controllable to shoot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WriIGNW1nKY
http://home.comcast.net/~sfischer397/m16a2oblmg/m16a2oblmgpics/LSW3.jpg
Uncle Mongo, no doubt.My uncle has one of the flat top model. It fires from an open bolt and is very fun and controllable to shoot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WriIGNW1nKY
http://home.comcast.net/~sfischer397/m16a2oblmg/m16a2oblmgpics/LSW3.jpg
My favorite gun is his Stoner 63A.
3/7/2012 1:10:03 PM
Originally Posted By sgthatred:
My favorite gun is his Stoner 63A.
Originally Posted By osprey21:
Yes, have you shot with him before?
Originally Posted By sgthatred:
My uncle has one of the flat top model. It fires from an open bolt and is very fun and controllable to shoot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WriIGNW1nKY
http://home.comcast.net/~sfischer397/m16a2oblmg/m16a2oblmgpics/LSW3.jpg
Uncle Mongo, no doubt.
My uncle has one of the flat top model. It fires from an open bolt and is very fun and controllable to shoot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WriIGNW1nKY
http://home.comcast.net/~sfischer397/m16a2oblmg/m16a2oblmgpics/LSW3.jpg
My favorite gun is his Stoner 63A.
Mongo & his Stoner shooting keyholes with a shot-out barrel were fixtures at the local New Years MG shoot. He told me he had a flat-top Colt open-bolt LMG. Very nice indeed! You & uncle Mongo should go tear up some Texas hogs together; he has the proper tools.
Edit: I am looking for a forward pistol grip for a Colt LMG upper. If anybody knows who has one in stock, drop me an email. TIA!
3/7/2012 5:30:07 PM
The hammer catching the carrier looks to me like it would put a lot of stress on the hammer pin. Do the hammer pin holes wallow out prematurely with this open bolt upper?
3/7/2012 7:08:13 PM
Originally Posted By 300LW:
The hammer catching the carrier looks to me like it would put a lot of stress on the hammer pin. Do the hammer pin holes wallow out prematurely with this open bolt upper?
The hammer catching the carrier looks to me like it would put a lot of stress on the hammer pin. Do the hammer pin holes wallow out prematurely with this open bolt upper?
It's not an open bolt upper - it's an open bolt system. Its use requires the special open bolt FCG installed in the lower, along with the special bolt carrier for the upper.
Yes, it's harder on the hammer, trigger and auto sear pins, all, than the standard automatic fire control groups.
The military and government don't care about the wear, probably, and anyone who can do so, e.g. a SOT, will run this system only on a post-sample.
3/7/2012 8:25:34 PM
Originally Posted By 300LW:
The hammer catching the carrier looks to me like it would put a lot of stress on the hammer pin. Do the hammer pin holes wallow out prematurely with this open bolt upper?
The hammer catching the carrier looks to me like it would put a lot of stress on the hammer pin. Do the hammer pin holes wallow out prematurely with this open bolt upper?
The transferable factory Colt M16A2 Model 750s seem to hold up pretty well. IIRC, the 750 hammer & trigger pins were not standard pins but hardened SS pins specific to open-bolt models.
3/8/2012 6:19:02 AM
Thanks. I had some vague understanding (emphasis on vague) of how the LWRC open bolt system works but knew nothing about Colt until these diagrams were posted. Very interesting.
