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Tactical Innovations AM15 Upper vs Lakeside Razorback Beltfed Upper Redux
10/29/2011 1:06:34 PM
I found various conversations in the archives on these two uppers, but they are old, and I think things may have changed since those threads were authored.
Tactical Innovations AM15 Upper
I understand that the AM15 requires a registered receiver and uses open bolt parts to function and thus has some issues with switchover. It is my suspicion that the smaller round and lower forces will not tend to egg out the fire control pin holes on my lower as is reported to happen with larger calibers.
Lakeside Razorback Beltfed Upper
At one time, the Lakeside guns seemed to have issues and did not seem to be intended for full-auto use. I see they now have factory M16 support for an extra cost.
Anyone have any real world experience with the most modern offerings from these two vendors? I am mainly looking for the most reliable 22lr dedicated upper available. My range time these days is more limited than my ability to tinker.
Tactical Innovations AM15 Upper
I understand that the AM15 requires a registered receiver and uses open bolt parts to function and thus has some issues with switchover. It is my suspicion that the smaller round and lower forces will not tend to egg out the fire control pin holes on my lower as is reported to happen with larger calibers.
Lakeside Razorback Beltfed Upper
At one time, the Lakeside guns seemed to have issues and did not seem to be intended for full-auto use. I see they now have factory M16 support for an extra cost.
Anyone have any real world experience with the most modern offerings from these two vendors? I am mainly looking for the most reliable 22lr dedicated upper available. My range time these days is more limited than my ability to tinker.
10/31/2011 7:01:29 AM
This is a buddy of mine shooting his LM7. He is using the razorback bolt though. If you don't want to tinker with uppers, 22 probably isn't the way to go.
10/31/2011 3:06:31 PM
I have the Razorback upper, and use it with my M16A1. I had some initial issues during break-in (no big surprise), but support is excellent. Finding the right ammo and getting the cloth belts broken in are two of the problems to be solved, but my belts are now GTG and my gun likes Mini-Mags.
My longest belt is 200 rounds, and I can usually get through it FA with either none or one jam. I note a bit of fresh wear back by the buffer tube, but my 'smith said it's nothing at all to worry about.
You can register for the Lakeside forums on their site, and get LOTS of in-depth info and troubleshooting tips. As last poster noted, out-of-the-box perfect 22 conversions are rare...at least in my experience with this and with my Kuehl .22 upper. Both now run pretty darned well, but they didn't at first.
My longest belt is 200 rounds, and I can usually get through it FA with either none or one jam. I note a bit of fresh wear back by the buffer tube, but my 'smith said it's nothing at all to worry about.
You can register for the Lakeside forums on their site, and get LOTS of in-depth info and troubleshooting tips. As last poster noted, out-of-the-box perfect 22 conversions are rare...at least in my experience with this and with my Kuehl .22 upper. Both now run pretty darned well, but they didn't at first.
11/16/2011 11:29:11 AM
Belt break in sucks bad, excpect lots of malfunctions with new belts. Other than belt break in the only thing I have done to mine is changed out the plastic charging handle for a fat heavy steel one, slowed the ROF and increased reliability. I can shoot 300-400 rounds auto before it starts giving me trouble becuase of how dirty 22lr is.
11/16/2011 1:37:20 PM
I've got the LM7 running w/ a Razorback bolt as well and love it.
Below is a link to mine running 500 rounds w/ no malfunctions burst fire.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yrj1v4ctsY0
I was on the list to get an AM15 until I handled it at the Shot Show before it was released. After seeing that it was going to be open bolt only and uses a fixed firing pin I got off the list.
Below is a link to mine running 500 rounds w/ no malfunctions burst fire.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yrj1v4ctsY0
I was on the list to get an AM15 until I handled it at the Shot Show before it was released. After seeing that it was going to be open bolt only and uses a fixed firing pin I got off the list.
11/16/2011 3:59:04 PM
Originally Posted By amphibian:
I was on the list to get an AM15 until I handled it at the Shot Show before it was released. After seeing that it was going to be open bolt only and uses a fixed firing pin I got off the list.
I was on the list to get an AM15 until I handled it at the Shot Show before it was released. After seeing that it was going to be open bolt only and uses a fixed firing pin I got off the list.
Why is that an issue for you? From what I understand, that tends to make the unit more reliable.
11/16/2011 4:19:30 PM
See this thread:
http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/showthread.php?31976-AM15-by-Tactical-Innovations/page9
The AM15 doesn't come w/ the 'sear lever' which is present on a real factory Colt open bolt FCG.
A real factory Colt open bolt doesn't use a fixed FP. It has the same floating FP found in the closed bolt M16. The hammer is used to hold the bolt back AND hit the FP in a real Colt Open bolt.
On the AM15, what happens if you take a stripped semi AR lower and put the AM15 on top and pull the charging handle???
Keeps running till it runs out of ammo or jams or you catch the bolt handle with your hand.
Talked to Tactical Innovations about this and they told me that this is no different with a semi M11/9 and you put a M11/9 SMG bolt on a stripped semi M11/9 frame. Point taken but that is also stuff that has been around since what the 70's?
I know ATF approved it but I don't want to risk it if they change their minds on this one. I know that Tactical Innovations sent in a factory Colt open bolt FCG in their sample to the ATF but I don't know if they didn't include the sear lever like they are actually selling it.
http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/showthread.php?31976-AM15-by-Tactical-Innovations/page9
The AM15 doesn't come w/ the 'sear lever' which is present on a real factory Colt open bolt FCG.
A real factory Colt open bolt doesn't use a fixed FP. It has the same floating FP found in the closed bolt M16. The hammer is used to hold the bolt back AND hit the FP in a real Colt Open bolt.
On the AM15, what happens if you take a stripped semi AR lower and put the AM15 on top and pull the charging handle???
Keeps running till it runs out of ammo or jams or you catch the bolt handle with your hand.
Talked to Tactical Innovations about this and they told me that this is no different with a semi M11/9 and you put a M11/9 SMG bolt on a stripped semi M11/9 frame. Point taken but that is also stuff that has been around since what the 70's?
I know ATF approved it but I don't want to risk it if they change their minds on this one. I know that Tactical Innovations sent in a factory Colt open bolt FCG in their sample to the ATF but I don't know if they didn't include the sear lever like they are actually selling it.
