AR15.Com Archives
 Geissele SSF?
M67Chucker  [Team Member]
8/7/2011 11:31:28 PM
For understanding purposes as far as lower receiver components are concerned, is the Geissele SSF itself a full auto trigger group that with the addition of a selector switch would make an M16 full auto capable? Does the SSF contain an auto sear in its assembly or is that still a required component that is missing from previous statement?

If an auto sear is still required to make the SSF trigger function on full auto, why makes it different than their other products.

Educate me.
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tony_k  [Moderator]
8/8/2011 1:13:56 AM
Originally Posted By M67Chucker:
For understanding purposes as far as lower receiver components are concerned, is the Geissele SSF itself a full auto trigger group that with the addition of a selector switch would make an M16 full auto capable? Does the SSF contain an auto sear in its assembly or is that still a required component that is missing from previous statement?

If an auto sear is still required to make the SSF trigger function on full auto, why makes it different than their other products.

Educate me.

"Educate me."? Boy, that's a dangerous request here ....

OK, let's start at the beginning: Eugene Stoner designed the AR15 as a select-fire rifle. Each of the five parts in the fire-control system –– hammer, trigger, disconnector, selector and autosear –– is designed to play a role, allowing the gun to fire in either semi-auto or full-auto.

There are some good comparisons elsewhere on ar15.com of semi vs. FA parts, with photos and specific descriptions. I'll let you search for them yourself among the tacked threads. There are also some good animations out there that show how the parts interact when firing.

After a few years, Colt –– which had purchased the AR15 patent from Armalite –– decided to come out with a semiautomatic version. So they redesigned each of four of the five parts (hammer, trigger, disconnector, selector) so that they would function in semi only, and they discarded the fifth part (the autosear, which for the most part governs the timing of full-auto fire) because it was not required on a semiautomatic firearm. Thus we have the neutered AR15. I prefer to think of it as an original AR15 design which has had its testicles removed, but that's just me.

The SSF replaces only the trigger and disconnector of the host gun. It still requires a milspec full-auto hammer, full-auto selector and an autosear to function correctly and safely. It does make a full-auto AR function much more smoothly, but it is far from the complete fire-control system required for full-auto function.

HTH.
M67Chucker  [Team Member]
8/8/2011 10:13:36 AM
Thanks for clearing that up. I thought it seemed to easy with just a SSF drop in like that. I will check out the pinned threads also.

Thanks again for the help!
sig-x  [Life Member]
8/8/2011 10:25:42 AM
Tony the SSF kit also comes with a hammer. The only parts needed are the auto selector and GI sear or a rdias.
damcv62  [Life Member]
8/8/2011 4:00:15 PM
Originally Posted By sig-x:
Tony the SSF kit also comes with a hammer. The only parts needed are the auto selector and GI sear or a rdias.


That it does. I love mine. Took me a while to spring for it, but in semi, wow. What a difference.
tony_k  [Moderator]
8/8/2011 4:14:52 PM
Cool! I wasn't aware of that.
sig-x  [Life Member]
8/8/2011 4:29:40 PM
Yea it's a great trigger. The hammer looks pretty cool as well.

Fredmisery  [Member]
8/15/2011 3:24:14 AM
Been looking at picking one of these up for my M16, range reports seem to be positive, but I'm very hesitant to put any FCG in my RR that isn't genuine Colt. Anyone know if there is a possibility of this trigger system damaging or wearing out anything that a traditional Colt FCG wouldn't? It might sound like a dumb question, but with the money I have invested in my M16 I don't want to take a chance on screwing anything up, I've heard stories of other manufacturers FCG's causing problems in Colt M16's. I would however really love the 2-stage available in semi-auto. I could just throw my match upper on the RR instead of bringing out several entire firearms when I go to the range. Any thoughts/opinions?
sig-x  [Life Member]
8/15/2011 10:37:10 AM
It will not wear the lower anymore than any mill spec FCG. I have been running them for almost two years and the m16 gets taken to the range every Sunday where it gets a lot of use. No signs of wear at all.
damcv62  [Life Member]
8/15/2011 12:37:45 PM
Originally Posted By Fredmisery:
Been looking at picking one of these up for my M16, range reports seem to be positive, but I'm very hesitant to put any FCG in my RR that isn't genuine Colt. Anyone know if there is a possibility of this trigger system damaging or wearing out anything that a traditional Colt FCG wouldn't? It might sound like a dumb question, but with the money I have invested in my M16 I don't want to take a chance on screwing anything up, I've heard stories of other manufacturers FCG's causing problems in Colt M16's. I would however really love the 2-stage available in semi-auto. I could just throw my match upper on the RR instead of bringing out several entire firearms when I go to the range. Any thoughts/opinions?


If you are going to spend the money for an SSF, go ahead and order a set of KNS pins at the same time. Then you won't have to worry about any thing.
Fredmisery  [Member]
8/15/2011 6:51:54 PM
Originally Posted By damcv62:
Originally Posted By Fredmisery:
Been looking at picking one of these up for my M16, range reports seem to be positive, but I'm very hesitant to put any FCG in my RR that isn't genuine Colt. Anyone know if there is a possibility of this trigger system damaging or wearing out anything that a traditional Colt FCG wouldn't? It might sound like a dumb question, but with the money I have invested in my M16 I don't want to take a chance on screwing anything up, I've heard stories of other manufacturers FCG's causing problems in Colt M16's. I would however really love the 2-stage available in semi-auto. I could just throw my match upper on the RR instead of bringing out several entire firearms when I go to the range. Any thoughts/opinions?


If you are going to spend the money for an SSF, go ahead and order a set of KNS pins at the same time. Then you won't have to worry about any thing.


I use the KNS pins already, so no other issues I need to worry about with SSF?

damcv62  [Life Member]
8/16/2011 7:40:12 PM
Originally Posted By Fredmisery:
Originally Posted By damcv62:
Originally Posted By Fredmisery:
Been looking at picking one of these up for my M16, range reports seem to be positive, but I'm very hesitant to put any FCG in my RR that isn't genuine Colt. Anyone know if there is a possibility of this trigger system damaging or wearing out anything that a traditional Colt FCG wouldn't? It might sound like a dumb question, but with the money I have invested in my M16 I don't want to take a chance on screwing anything up, I've heard stories of other manufacturers FCG's causing problems in Colt M16's. I would however really love the 2-stage available in semi-auto. I could just throw my match upper on the RR instead of bringing out several entire firearms when I go to the range. Any thoughts/opinions?


If you are going to spend the money for an SSF, go ahead and order a set of KNS pins at the same time. Then you won't have to worry about any thing.


I use the KNS pins already, so no other issues I need to worry about with SSF?



I wouldn't have any other worries. I've used my KNS pins on four different M16 lowers, and shot count less thousands of rounds, with a good bit being 9mm(with out a ramped bolt) and I've yet to wear any lower, or break a pin. I guess something could happen, but I would consider the SSF built as well(if not better) then the stuff from colt. YMMV.
Fredmisery  [Member]
8/17/2011 1:46:35 PM
Cool, thanks for the info, looks like an SSF is in my future!
xm15e2s  [Member]
9/14/2011 7:50:19 AM
deleted. added to another thread.
leid  [Team Member]
9/28/2011 9:35:26 PM
Originally Posted By damcv62:
Originally Posted By Fredmisery:
Been looking at picking one of these up for my M16, range reports seem to be positive, but I'm very hesitant to put any FCG in my RR that isn't genuine Colt. Anyone know if there is a possibility of this trigger system damaging or wearing out anything that a traditional Colt FCG wouldn't? It might sound like a dumb question, but with the money I have invested in my M16 I don't want to take a chance on screwing anything up, I've heard stories of other manufacturers FCG's causing problems in Colt M16's. I would however really love the 2-stage available in semi-auto. I could just throw my match upper on the RR instead of bringing out several entire firearms when I go to the range. Any thoughts/opinions?


If you are going to spend the money for an SSF, go ahead and order a set of KNS pins at the same time. Then you won't have to worry about any thing.




I installed an SSF FCG in a COLT M16A2 a couple years back. Works good, lasts long time. At that time, Geissele recommended using only the pins supplied with the SSF trigger so I removed the KNS pins I had been using with the OEM COLT FCG parts. I just checked with Geissele again to make sure they had not changed their position. See below:

Carey

All non rotating pins we have seen are too soft and the incorrect diameter. We have had customers with jammed up triggers from the soft metal used on the pins. We recommend the use of our pins.

Bill Geissele

Geissele Automatics - We Manufacture Confidence
damcv62  [Life Member]
9/28/2011 11:13:23 PM
Originally Posted By leid:
Originally Posted By damcv62:
Originally Posted By Fredmisery:
Been looking at picking one of these up for my M16, range reports seem to be positive, but I'm very hesitant to put any FCG in my RR that isn't genuine Colt. Anyone know if there is a possibility of this trigger system damaging or wearing out anything that a traditional Colt FCG wouldn't? It might sound like a dumb question, but with the money I have invested in my M16 I don't want to take a chance on screwing anything up, I've heard stories of other manufacturers FCG's causing problems in Colt M16's. I would however really love the 2-stage available in semi-auto. I could just throw my match upper on the RR instead of bringing out several entire firearms when I go to the range. Any thoughts/opinions?


If you are going to spend the money for an SSF, go ahead and order a set of KNS pins at the same time. Then you won't have to worry about any thing.




I installed an SSF FCG in a COLT M16A2 a couple years back. Works good, lasts long time. At that time, Geissele recommended using only the pins supplied with the SSF trigger so I removed the KNS pins I had been using with the OEM COLT FCG parts. I just checked with Geissele again to make sure they had not changed their position. See below:

Carey

All non rotating pins we have seen are too soft and the incorrect diameter. We have had customers with jammed up triggers from the soft metal used on the pins. We recommend the use of our pins.

Bill Geissele

Geissele Automatics - We Manufacture Confidence


Interesting. I've got the KNS pins in mine. I've had no issues.
leid  [Team Member]
9/29/2011 9:00:44 AM
Originally Posted By damcv62:
Originally Posted By leid:
Originally Posted By damcv62:
Originally Posted By Fredmisery:
Been looking at picking one of these up for my M16, range reports seem to be positive, but I'm very hesitant to put any FCG in my RR that isn't genuine Colt. Anyone know if there is a possibility of this trigger system damaging or wearing out anything that a traditional Colt FCG wouldn't? It might sound like a dumb question, but with the money I have invested in my M16 I don't want to take a chance on screwing anything up, I've heard stories of other manufacturers FCG's causing problems in Colt M16's. I would however really love the 2-stage available in semi-auto. I could just throw my match upper on the RR instead of bringing out several entire firearms when I go to the range. Any thoughts/opinions?


If you are going to spend the money for an SSF, go ahead and order a set of KNS pins at the same time. Then you won't have to worry about any thing.




I installed an SSF FCG in a COLT M16A2 a couple years back. Works good, lasts long time. At that time, Geissele recommended using only the pins supplied with the SSF trigger so I removed the KNS pins I had been using with the OEM COLT FCG parts. I just checked with Geissele again to make sure they had not changed their position. See below:

Carey

All non rotating pins we have seen are too soft and the incorrect diameter. We have had customers with jammed up triggers from the soft metal used on the pins. We recommend the use of our pins.

Bill Geissele

Geissele Automatics - We Manufacture Confidence


Interesting. I've got the KNS pins in mine. I've had no issues.


I hear ya' but I figure Bill Geissele is much more knowledgeable about his product than I am so I installed it as recommended. But I still use KNS pins in another Colt M16A2 that has a single stage JP trigger in it which also works good, lasts long time. Also have a 2.5LB single stage Jard trigger with KNS pins in an SA lower for medium to long range precision shooting with 77gr. & 80gr. loads which has worked very well for about 12 years now.
damcv62  [Life Member]
9/30/2011 9:56:38 PM
I could see if he was worried about warranty work, or something of the like. But him saying the KNS pins are a lesser metal sounds like a crock of shit. They have been around for what, 10 years? And I've yet to hear one time that someone had a set of KNS pins strip or not work correctly. Of course YMMV.
Fredmisery  [Member]
9/30/2011 10:45:47 PM
I think I'm in agreement with damcv, those KNS pins are solid, never even heard of anyone having an issue. Also, I'm not gonna risk egging the pin-holes on my RR under any circumstances. I'll stick with the KNS, no offense to the guys at Geiselle.....
Fredmisery  [Member]
9/30/2011 11:00:05 PM
Maybe Geissele should start making non-rotating pins......
Fredmisery  [Member]
9/30/2011 11:00:46 PM
Dupe
HitmanInc  [Member]
9/30/2011 11:03:28 PM
Thread drift.

Only KNS problems I ever heard about were the first gen and those were screw breakage all with 9mm uppers.
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