AR15.Com Archives
 why doesnt the M16 see many upgrades?
sinlessorrow  [Team Member]
7/17/2011 9:57:00 AM
im just curious why it is the MK18 and the M4A1 seem to get upgraded more often than the M16?
_DR  [Team Member]
7/17/2011 12:43:36 AM


Well the M16A4 seems fairly upgraded and works well.
86HMMWV  [Team Member]
7/17/2011 12:44:27 AM
Originally Posted By _DR:
Well the M16A4 seems fairly upgraded and works well.

And even it's getting that collapsible stock thing.
sinlessorrow  [Team Member]
7/17/2011 12:46:39 AM
i was just thinking the MK18 and M4A1 are getting new rail systems/buis, but the M16A4 is still the same
mkgunz  [Team Member]
7/17/2011 12:50:09 AM
Because the Army is going away from the M16 and plans to eventually replace all M16's with M4's.
FunBobby  [Team Member]
7/17/2011 12:54:32 AM
Originally Posted By mkgunz:
Because the Army is going away from the M16 and plans to eventually replace all M16's with M4's.


But not the Marine Corps...
4schitzangiggles  [Team Member]
7/17/2011 12:56:10 AM
It does and is. Where do you think the M4 came from?

silas79  [Member]
7/17/2011 1:03:02 AM
Seams to me thAt the m4, mark 11,mark 12, mk18, saw, and many others are all upgrades
From the original m16. Don't make it tougher than it is.
_DR  [Team Member]
7/17/2011 1:13:44 AM
Originally Posted By FunBobby:
Originally Posted By mkgunz:
Because the Army is going away from the M16 and plans to eventually replace all M16's with M4's.


But not the Marine Corps...


Yeah, i'd rather have an M16 than an m4 anyday.
JackBurton  [Team Member]
7/17/2011 1:35:59 AM
What the hell are you talking about?

The M16A4 IS the M16 upgraded, the Marines here have them, they are railed, have the MATECH buis, and ACOG. These guys just came out of Afghanistan.

BTW, the Corps is fielding the M4 in greater numbers now.
GunDisaster  [Team Member]
7/17/2011 2:17:13 AM
Yeah I gotta say what are you kidding me, the M16 has more upgrades than any other rifle i know of, ha. Take a look at the original M16 and then look at the new ones, lots of upgrades there. Especially when they start adding on flashlights and optics and night-vision and so forth.
Mattyvac  [Team Member]
7/17/2011 2:23:25 AM
There is an upgraded m16, it's called the SAM-R. Although it's a long range upgrade
sinlessorrow  [Team Member]
7/17/2011 2:58:31 AM
Well i was just thinking compared to the new mk18 mod 2 and the sopmod II for the m4 the stuff on the m16 does seem to be a bit dated aside from the optics
JoshAston  [Team Member]
7/17/2011 3:00:55 AM
The Mk12, Mk18, M4, etc. are all upgrades of the M16.
Will816  [Member]
7/17/2011 3:18:34 AM
Originally Posted By JoshAston:
The Mk12, Mk18, M4, etc. are all upgrades of the M16.


+1
Also, in addition to the Army Mk12 is the Marine's SAM-R which is an "upgraded" M16.

While an A5 version of the M16 may show up with a collapsible stock to better accommodate length of pull issues when wearing armor (hopefully with VLTOR's excellent self-branded A5 stock), I think the most common direction we'll see what you might refer to as an M16 proper being upgraded will be sniper and designated marksman variants that utilize the longer barrel. Just like the Mk12 and SAM-R.
JoshAston  [Team Member]
7/17/2011 3:24:08 AM

Originally Posted By Will816:
Army Mk12
The Mk12 is Navy. The SDM-R is the Army's version.

Will816  [Member]
7/17/2011 3:34:03 AM
Originally Posted By JoshAston:

Originally Posted By Will816:
Army Mk12
The Mk12 is Navy. The SDM-R is the Army's version.



My mistake, I knew that but it's late and I wasn't thinking. As I was typing all of that I was trying to remember where the SDM-R fit in.

So there we are, 3 upgrades to the good old fixed-stock M16: Mk12, SDM-R, SAM-R
chadwick76  [Team Member]
7/17/2011 4:18:50 AM
Originally Posted By JackBurton:
What the hell are you talking about?

The M16A4 IS the M16 upgraded, the Marines here have them, they are railed, have the MATECH buis, and ACOG. These guys just came out of Afghanistan.

BTW, the Corps is fielding the M4 in greater numbers now.


lmao, thinking the same thing.
R0N  [Team Member]
7/17/2011 5:23:44 AM
Originally Posted By Mattyvac:
There is an upgraded m16, it's called the SAM-R. Although it's a long range upgrade


The SAM-R left the inventory a long time ago.
R0N  [Team Member]
7/17/2011 5:29:33 AM
Originally Posted By JoshAston:

Originally Posted By Will816:
Army Mk12
The Mk12 is Navy. The SDM-R is the Army's version.



Mk-12 is a Crane designated and built weapon used by the Navy, Marines and Army components of SOCOM.

SOCOM normally goes to Crane vise the Big Army because Crane gets a weapon type classified and into the system much faster than Big Army can.
TUBBY  [Member]
7/17/2011 8:02:32 AM
Originally Posted By GunDisaster:
Yeah I gotta say what are you kidding me, the M16 has more upgrades than any other rifle i know of, ha. Take a look at the original M16 and then look at the new ones, lots of upgrades there. Especially when they start adding on flashlights and optics and night-vision and so forth.


+1. Started out as a nice light rifle. Just under 7 lbs. With all the stuff thrown on you are back to M14 weight.
John87  [Team Member]
7/17/2011 9:34:23 AM
i think the word "tacticool" can be thrown into the mix in this thread.
CTbuilder1  [Team Member]
7/17/2011 9:43:02 AM
Originally Posted By John87:
i think the word "tacticool" can be thrown into the mix in this thread.


Really? Why? Are you saying the modifications and add ons to these weapons serve no purpose except to look cool? There is no benefit to upgraded sighting systems, NV and lasers?
Casper507  [Member]
7/17/2011 1:24:44 PM
Originally Posted By silas79:
Seams to me thAt the m4, mark 11,mark 12, mk18, saw, and many others are all upgrades
From the original m16. Don't make it tougher than it is.


SAW is only an upgrade if you consider the M16 magazine as the base system and include the SAW because it was originally designed to use magazines.
The new HK is kind of an update of M16 because it pretty much uses the same frame or at least much closer to it than a SAW.
TCBA_Joe  [Team Member]
7/17/2011 2:26:57 PM
Originally Posted By TUBBY:
Originally Posted By GunDisaster:
Yeah I gotta say what are you kidding me, the M16 has more upgrades than any other rifle i know of, ha. Take a look at the original M16 and then look at the new ones, lots of upgrades there. Especially when they start adding on flashlights and optics and night-vision and so forth.


+1. Started out as a nice light rifle. Just under 7 lbs. With all the stuff thrown on you are back to M14 weight.

Yeah, but then it wouldn't have the night fighting or optical advantages of the M16A2. I've never considered an M4 with a SF, PEQ-15, and an ACOG to be too heavy. Neither is my DDM4 w/ vampire scout, DBAL-I2, and Aimpoint.

The "just lift weight" argument is stupid, its never a bad thing to cut down weight, but not at the expense of capability.


Originally Posted By CTbuilder1:
Originally Posted By John87:
i think the word "tacticool" can be thrown into the mix in this thread.


Really? Why? Are you saying the modifications and add ons to these weapons serve no purpose except to look cool? There is no benefit to upgraded sighting systems, NV and lasers?


I love the KISS logic... weight and aesthetics is primary to capabilities.
sinlessorrow  [Team Member]
7/17/2011 3:51:12 PM
Originally Posted By CTbuilder1:
Originally Posted By John87:
i think the word "tacticool" can be thrown into the mix in this thread.


Really? Why? Are you saying the modifications and add ons to these weapons serve no purpose except to look cool? There is no benefit to upgraded sighting systems, NV and lasers?


Tacticool is a fine word for a civilian that will never use his peq. But i made this topic with more military rifles in mind, and the stuff they run doesnt make them tacticool
hrt4me  [Team Member]
7/27/2011 7:44:44 PM
Originally Posted By GunDisaster:
Yeah I gotta say what are you kidding me, the M16 has more upgrades than any other rifle i know of, ha. Take a look at the original M16 and then look at the new ones, lots of upgrades there.


+1
12_gauge  [Member]
8/11/2011 6:23:28 AM
Originally Posted By FunBobby:
Originally Posted By mkgunz:
Because the Army is going away from the M16 and plans to eventually replace all M16's with M4's.


But not the Marine Corps...


My former roommate was in the sand-box from 03-05 as I understand it, and he was very happy as was everyone else when they got to dump their A4's for M4's. He was USMC.
FunBobby  [Team Member]
8/11/2011 2:01:42 PM
Originally Posted By 12_gauge:
Originally Posted By FunBobby:
Originally Posted By mkgunz:
Because the Army is going away from the M16 and plans to eventually replace all M16's with M4's.


But not the Marine Corps...


My former roommate was in the sand-box from 03-05 as I understand it, and he was very happy as was everyone else when they got to dump their A4's for M4's. He was USMC.


I love my A4, and most people I know feel the same way.
JRCooke  [Member]
8/11/2011 5:48:48 PM
Is the SAM-R piston driven or does the FSB just fold down?
R0N  [Team Member]
8/11/2011 6:00:44 PM
Originally Posted By JRCooke:
Is the SAM-R piston driven or does the FSB just fold down?


Fold down.
M1-Matt  [Team Member]
8/11/2011 8:43:19 PM

Originally Posted By R0N:
Originally Posted By Mattyvac:
There is an upgraded m16, it's called the SAM-R. Although it's a long range upgrade


The SAM-R left the inventory a long time ago.

Was it replaced? Or did the Corps decide on just going with the M16A4?
R0N  [Team Member]
8/12/2011 3:39:58 AM
The Mk12 is the non-program of record replacement for the SAM-R. However, once those wear out there is not a plan to replace them.