AR15.Com Archives
 LEO trouble with NFA
SFK9handler  [Member]
5/1/2008 7:33:12 PM EST
I've seen this posted before but let's just say that I own 3 C3 firearms (2 cans/1 SBR) that I purchased when I was stationed in MT, I now live back in my home state of NC (Mecklenburg county). From what I understand NFA is legal regardless of where it was initially approved given that you live in a "free" state.

What if I was approached by a local LEO who is not familiar with NFA and demands me to turnover my weapons ?

Or thinks that the paperwork is not valid because I purhcased and had the paperwork by signed my a CLEO in another state.

What if I inform him/produce my paperwork but he still insists on arresting me and confiscating my weapons, what should I do ?

This is purely hypothetical. I usually shoot on private property with a City LEO. What would be the proper actions to take ? NFA is legal in NC from what I've read but hard to get approval in my county.
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Amish_Bill  [Team Member]
5/1/2008 7:59:26 PM EST
As long as you've filed your - what is it - 5320.20 I think - ATF paperwork for moving your items across state lines, you are good to go on the Federal level. Satisfying any local regs is required too.

Beyond that, if a LEO has it in his mind that he is going to take your stuff, then your stuff is going to get taken. The least confrontational approach is to demand a receipt for the items. After that, you can pull up whatever supporting documentation you can and go talk to the guy's Boss.

Worst case, if you are 100% positive that you are in the right, talk to a lawyer, the ATF about teh cop having illegal possession, and maybe even the local FBI office about a local PD improperly confiscating your items under the color of law. (pulling most of this outta my but, so you may want to get more & better opinions.)
guess-who-  [Member]
5/2/2008 4:00:31 AM EST
What he said sounds about right to me. Start small and work your way up. If it is legal to for you to own and possess in you state and you have followed all the federal guidelines for the transfer, they don't have a leg to stand on. On the other hand don't fight it on scene. Demand a reciept of coarse and pursue the correct legal actions as you local and state law allows. But most of all have you a lawyer on your side when it does 'hit the fan'.
Foxxz  [Team Member]
5/2/2008 4:11:08 AM EST
If he is going to take your NFA gear aren't you going to be arrested as well for having "illegal" weaponry?

-Foxxz
dead_eye  [Member]
5/2/2008 4:23:06 AM EST
My understanding is that if you are not breaking the law and your Class 3 weapons are taken by a LEO, they are illegally in possession of a Class 3 weapon.

I personally know a guy that had 3 machine guns taken from him. He was shooting on private property with permission from the land owner, but the LEO did not think he should have the machine guns, so they took them from him at gun point. The guy contacted the ATF and the ATF immediately notified the LEO that he was illegally in possession of a Class 3 weapon. They quickly returned the guns to the owner.
sgtlmj  [Member]
5/2/2008 4:28:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By dead_eye:
My understanding is that if you are not breaking the law and your Class 3 weapons are taken by a LEO, they are illegally in possession of a Class 3 weapon.

I personally know a guy that had 3 machine guns taken from him. He was shooting on private property with permission from the land owner, but the LEO did not think he should have the machine guns, so they took them from him at gun point. The guy contacted the ATF and the ATF immediately notified the LEO that he was illegally in possession of a Class 3 weapon. They quickly returned the guns to the owner.


So probably the best advice is to have the NFA branch or your local ATF office's phone number handy. Advise the officer to contact the ATF before pursuing his course of action, since you will certainly be calling at the first opportunity.

As for arresting you for illegal possession, I would imagine that if you aren't being a douche-bag they would probably just file for a warrant to be issued at a later date. If they did hook you, you'd have a false arrest case.
jhm  [Member]
5/2/2008 1:41:49 PM EST
Huh..posts disappearing again..

I would look into NC law as they are very un-friendly towards NFA..i.e. they do not allow them.
JAD  [Member]
5/2/2008 2:41:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By jhm:
Huh..posts disappearing again..

I would look into NC law as they are very un-friendly towards NFA..i.e. they do not allow them.

MG are allowed if you have a permit from the county sherrif, the others may be had for secientific or R&D purposes only.
EA2  [Member]
5/2/2008 6:20:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By jhm:
Huh..posts disappearing again..

I would look into NC law as they are very un-friendly towards NFA..i.e. they do not allow them.


Not true. Depends on the local LEO. My sheriff has no problems with NFA weapons and signs for me whenever I ask.
Pneumagger  [Member]
5/7/2008 6:45:34 AM EST
I'd inform the sheriff he needs to read and understand the laws better.
Inform him that if he must take the weapons and arrest yuo to write you a reciept, that he has been informed of the correct laws, and he is violating your rights.
I'd contact a lawyer and try to sue his ass for either:

a) being a prick who thinks he can do what he wants
b) being a mindless batshit who chooses to remain ignorant.
FL-Gun-Trust-Lawyer  [Member]
5/12/2008 8:30:48 AM EST
There are many CLEO's who will just ignore requests for form 4's. Even in some states where there are laws that forbid this type of action.

Even if a your CLEO will sign a form 4 there are many advantages in using a NFA specific trust. I am not talking about one of the free trusts or using quicken, but one with provisions to help protect you and your family

David Goldman
http://www.guntrustlawyer.com
http://www.FloridaEstatePlanningLawyerBlog.com

Southrnshooter  [Member]
5/12/2008 9:06:26 AM EST
The problem this guy has is he is in Mecklenburg County. That sheriff is very NFA unfriendly. He will not sign off. Keep your ducks in a row.

Post over in the HT Carolinas Forum and those NFA guy's there can give you some advice.

My sheriff won't sign either....
SFK9handler  [Member]
5/12/2008 10:30:00 PM EST
My NFA toys HAVE already been signed off, I'm just wandering if there will be any problems since the county I live in is un-friendly for NFA owners. There are no state/local laws prohibiting NFA ownership just the CLEO doesn't sign off.
K9GATOR  [Member]
5/16/2008 9:02:14 PM EST
You wont have any problems. Your CLEO is on crack and if he won't sign for your next project just simply create a trust. You can find a step by step instructional on this forum. If you have any questions just ask.

If I remember right there is still a Federal Government and your CLEO is not the top of it. He can not make his own laws on who can have NFA items If your state allows them he just has to live with it. He is not obligated to sign them, but you can contact ATF and ask who else in your area is authorized to sign. If they take them simply call your local ATF office and report the theft. Im sure you won't have any problem getting them back. You have the stamps and they would have no legal grounds to take them.

Just a funny story, me and a buddy were shooting in the desert here in AZ we had 2 MG's and 2 supressed AR's. One of the local deputies was being nosy and decided to make history. He pulled up ordered us to the ground then began the gestapo routine. He decided he had to take the guns because he thought the paperwork was fake. Well my buddy works for the ATF. The two MG's were his, he threw his creds in the guys face and told him if he did take the guns he would be in posession of illegal firearms with out cause and subject to federal prosecution. Needless to say I was laughing my butt off. Deputy dewey didn't take the guns and I think he needed a diaper change after that one.
107207  [Member]
5/26/2008 3:49:39 PM EST
I have had this happen. I was advised that out in the county there was some class 3 weaponry being fired. Talked to owner. I looked at all serial numbers then looked at all matching paper work. If for some instance there was a problem it would of only took about twenty minutes to get federal LEO out to where I was at. Just keep paper work together. Trust me that if for some reason LEO thinks you have class 3 weaponry illegal he is not going to be alone.
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