Archived Posts » 60,595,333
AN/PSQ-18A legal question.
12/22/2011 2:04:53 AM
Can a civilian legally own this sight? Could a civilian legally sell that sight? Cant find much legal info about it on the google machine. Any info is appreciated.
12/22/2011 4:14:46 AM
Just don't sell it to someone who might take it overseas to China, Syria, Iran, etc. Best to keep a receipt from the seller w/ name & address, & don't let it leave the country. What on earth are you going to do w/ a $10,000+ NVG that you can't do w/ a $300 gun show special?
Merry Christmaunakah!
backbencher
Merry Christmaunakah!
backbencher
12/22/2011 8:31:23 AM
I think you are confused as to what sight i am referring to. I am talking bought the sight system that attaches to the tube of your 40 or 37mm grenade launcher. It is a part of the SOPMOD kit. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=ms-android-verizon&sky=mrdr&site=webhp&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=5y_zToGOEoqztwe96MzPBg&ved=0CC8QBSgA&q=An+Psq+18a&spell=1&biw=640&bih=279
12/22/2011 10:16:09 AM
Nothing illegal about having or selling a site. The questionable part would be if it can be proven to be stolen government property. Lots of things you think are not available to civilians can be found legally though.
12/22/2011 10:31:01 AM
we issued them to some guys here, it's a good concept but no one uses it and it gets in the way. not really practical. i wouldn't ever spend money on one, if you're good with your 203 firing from the hip should work fine as i'm close enough to kill someone at 300m with mine.
12/22/2011 10:52:14 AM
Well I know where one is. Im sure it could be had well below the MSRP of around $1200.00 . From what I know it was in the contents of an auctioned off self storage locker. There was other stuff like mags some ammo various parts ect. in an army duffle bag. The guy that has it isnt into guns at all and has asked me to see about selling it for him. I have no need for it b/c I dont own a launcher of any type. He says its "like new" condition . I will see if I can get some pics and a price soon. Be looking for it in the EE or msg me if interested.
12/22/2011 8:03:15 PM
In a word, NO.
Civilians can not legally own Class 3 lasers (Infrared). I bought a new Insight on Gunbroker from a person who also haunts this site, and I also bought one for almost full retail from a retired Insight Military Tech.
The DoD Inspector General sent 2 NCIS agents to pick up by Gunbroker PSQ-18A, but they left me alone on the one from the Insight rep. Seems the California seller who I got the Gunbroker item, had sold 5 of them and all were stolen from the US Military. I thought I was clear on the second PSq-18A, but Homeland Security sent an agent to grab that one since Class 3 lasers are restricted to US Military and medical use only.
Insight was actually helpful in advising me that no AN/PSQ-18 or 18A has ever been knowingly shipped or sold to a non-Military or Governmental entity. They did advise that my Insight unit was originally a AN/PSQ18 and upgraded to a PSQ-18A (changes dealt with back up iron sights and front sight hood). and returned to their salesman. Insight advised that it should have been returned to them when their salesman retired..........I ended up removing the IR capability in the second AN PSQ-18A and when Homeland Security's agent finally got around to picking it up, I advised him that it was legally owned with a receipt and no longer an IR laser/LAM. After 2 months, it was returned to me since it only had tritium back up iron sights (legal) and the range scale illuminated.
The DoD agents and the Homeland agent were very professional, and they gave me a custody card and receipt for the items they took. Whether they ever caught who stole them, I do not know or care........ seems the source for a bunch of these was out of Tennessee and they were sold en masse to a California Gunbroker reseller, who sold them from the US to Europe to Japan...........just google Insight AN PSQ-18a and you will get a butt load of ads offering them.
Stay away from the gent in Cali who offered them on Gunbroker and a NVG website......he originally offered to refund all my money, but that evaporated within days. I ended up writing it off on my taxes as a loss ($1800 total) and I stick to stuff for my M79 and M203 instead.
Be safe here, as you can end up doing some time with the Feds if you do not tell the truth with them and/or dispose of it the wrong way.
Civilians can not legally own Class 3 lasers (Infrared). I bought a new Insight on Gunbroker from a person who also haunts this site, and I also bought one for almost full retail from a retired Insight Military Tech.
The DoD Inspector General sent 2 NCIS agents to pick up by Gunbroker PSQ-18A, but they left me alone on the one from the Insight rep. Seems the California seller who I got the Gunbroker item, had sold 5 of them and all were stolen from the US Military. I thought I was clear on the second PSq-18A, but Homeland Security sent an agent to grab that one since Class 3 lasers are restricted to US Military and medical use only.
Insight was actually helpful in advising me that no AN/PSQ-18 or 18A has ever been knowingly shipped or sold to a non-Military or Governmental entity. They did advise that my Insight unit was originally a AN/PSQ18 and upgraded to a PSQ-18A (changes dealt with back up iron sights and front sight hood). and returned to their salesman. Insight advised that it should have been returned to them when their salesman retired..........I ended up removing the IR capability in the second AN PSQ-18A and when Homeland Security's agent finally got around to picking it up, I advised him that it was legally owned with a receipt and no longer an IR laser/LAM. After 2 months, it was returned to me since it only had tritium back up iron sights (legal) and the range scale illuminated.
The DoD agents and the Homeland agent were very professional, and they gave me a custody card and receipt for the items they took. Whether they ever caught who stole them, I do not know or care........ seems the source for a bunch of these was out of Tennessee and they were sold en masse to a California Gunbroker reseller, who sold them from the US to Europe to Japan...........just google Insight AN PSQ-18a and you will get a butt load of ads offering them.
Stay away from the gent in Cali who offered them on Gunbroker and a NVG website......he originally offered to refund all my money, but that evaporated within days. I ended up writing it off on my taxes as a loss ($1800 total) and I stick to stuff for my M79 and M203 instead.
Be safe here, as you can end up doing some time with the Feds if you do not tell the truth with them and/or dispose of it the wrong way.
12/22/2011 8:50:05 PM
Thanks for the advice and heads up. I think I will let my friend handle that hot potato by himself. I will fill him in on all the info I just read.
12/23/2011 6:09:27 AM
Your buddy can get around $500 i would think. There isn't a real big market for them.
12/26/2011 11:51:25 PM
Originally Posted By FrankSPPD:
In a word, NO.
Civilians can not legally own Class 3 lasers (Infrared). I bought a new Insight on Gunbroker from a person who also haunts this site, and I also bought one for almost full retail from a retired Insight Military Tech.
The DoD Inspector General sent 2 NCIS agents to pick up by Gunbroker PSQ-18A, but they left me alone on the one from the Insight rep. Seems the California seller who I got the Gunbroker item, had sold 5 of them and all were stolen from the US Military. I thought I was clear on the second PSq-18A, but Homeland Security sent an agent to grab that one since Class 3 lasers are restricted to US Military and medical use only.
Insight was actually helpful in advising me that no AN/PSQ-18 or 18A has ever been knowingly shipped or sold to a non-Military or Governmental entity. They did advise that my Insight unit was originally a AN/PSQ18 and upgraded to a PSQ-18A (changes dealt with back up iron sights and front sight hood). and returned to their salesman. Insight advised that it should have been returned to them when their salesman retired..........I ended up removing the IR capability in the second AN PSQ-18A and when Homeland Security's agent finally got around to picking it up, I advised him that it was legally owned with a receipt and no longer an IR laser/LAM. After 2 months, it was returned to me since it only had tritium back up iron sights (legal) and the range scale illuminated.
The DoD agents and the Homeland agent were very professional, and they gave me a custody card and receipt for the items they took. Whether they ever caught who stole them, I do not know or care........ seems the source for a bunch of these was out of Tennessee and they were sold en masse to a California Gunbroker reseller, who sold them from the US to Europe to Japan...........just google Insight AN PSQ-18a and you will get a butt load of ads offering them.
Stay away from the gent in Cali who offered them on Gunbroker and a NVG website......he originally offered to refund all my money, but that evaporated within days. I ended up writing it off on my taxes as a loss ($1800 total) and I stick to stuff for my M79 and M203 instead.
Be safe here, as you can end up doing some time with the Feds if you do not tell the truth with them and/or dispose of it the wrong way.
In a word, NO.
Civilians can not legally own Class 3 lasers (Infrared). I bought a new Insight on Gunbroker from a person who also haunts this site, and I also bought one for almost full retail from a retired Insight Military Tech.
The DoD Inspector General sent 2 NCIS agents to pick up by Gunbroker PSQ-18A, but they left me alone on the one from the Insight rep. Seems the California seller who I got the Gunbroker item, had sold 5 of them and all were stolen from the US Military. I thought I was clear on the second PSq-18A, but Homeland Security sent an agent to grab that one since Class 3 lasers are restricted to US Military and medical use only.
Insight was actually helpful in advising me that no AN/PSQ-18 or 18A has ever been knowingly shipped or sold to a non-Military or Governmental entity. They did advise that my Insight unit was originally a AN/PSQ18 and upgraded to a PSQ-18A (changes dealt with back up iron sights and front sight hood). and returned to their salesman. Insight advised that it should have been returned to them when their salesman retired..........I ended up removing the IR capability in the second AN PSQ-18A and when Homeland Security's agent finally got around to picking it up, I advised him that it was legally owned with a receipt and no longer an IR laser/LAM. After 2 months, it was returned to me since it only had tritium back up iron sights (legal) and the range scale illuminated.
The DoD agents and the Homeland agent were very professional, and they gave me a custody card and receipt for the items they took. Whether they ever caught who stole them, I do not know or care........ seems the source for a bunch of these was out of Tennessee and they were sold en masse to a California Gunbroker reseller, who sold them from the US to Europe to Japan...........just google Insight AN PSQ-18a and you will get a butt load of ads offering them.
Stay away from the gent in Cali who offered them on Gunbroker and a NVG website......he originally offered to refund all my money, but that evaporated within days. I ended up writing it off on my taxes as a loss ($1800 total) and I stick to stuff for my M79 and M203 instead.
Be safe here, as you can end up doing some time with the Feds if you do not tell the truth with them and/or dispose of it the wrong way.
Can you educate me on the Class 3 laser being illegal thing? I couldn't find anything restricting it from civilian ownership. I see the Insite website restricts them from civilian sales but that's right along the same lines as Benchmade not selling automatics and Remington not selling 700 PSSs to civilians. Class 3 is a medium power laser and every engraving shop here at Ft Campbell have much more powerful lasers. Sounds like yours were slolen government property, which explains the feds coming after them. A link would be appreciated. Thanks.
12/27/2011 12:45:36 PM
This has been covered in the other section, you can own them but cab not buy them directly from the MFG. That's why you will see a lot of them on the EE here, some people buy or sell "stolen" ones that somehow walked away from the Mil or LE. Others were bought by individuals when they worked for the PD with their personal money and legally. Then they decided they didn't want it anymore and sold it on the open market. That's also how a good percentage of the PEQs ended up out there.
12/28/2011 7:09:01 PM
Originally Posted By sardo_67:
This has been covered in the other section, you can own them but cab not buy them directly from the MFG. That's why you will see a lot of them on the EE here, some people buy or sell "stolen" ones that somehow walked away from the Mil or LE. Others were bought by individuals when they worked for the PD with their personal money and legally. Then they decided they didn't want it anymore and sold it on the open market. That's also how a good percentage of the PEQs ended up out there.
This has been covered in the other section, you can own them but cab not buy them directly from the MFG. That's why you will see a lot of them on the EE here, some people buy or sell "stolen" ones that somehow walked away from the Mil or LE. Others were bought by individuals when they worked for the PD with their personal money and legally. Then they decided they didn't want it anymore and sold it on the open market. That's also how a good percentage of the PEQs ended up out there.
That's sort of what I had figured. I know that lasers are regulated by the FDA but I'd never heard of some of them being "illegal for civilians". This is right along the same lines as Raufoss ammo for 50 BMGs. It can be found and its a bit on the pricey side but there are tons of folks who swear its all stolen from the .gov since they are the primary users. Plenty of it makes it to the civilian market through strange circumstances.
12/28/2011 7:51:38 PM
Other than what I mentioned at the beginning of this thread I have no idea the origins of this sight. I have seen it now and it is brand new. No dust no mounting marks no scratches. It has tritium iron sights also. It even has a AA lithium battery in the case with it, it seems to work (lights light up change colors when tilted, ect.)
12/28/2011 7:57:03 PM
Yes, not illegal, just not available from the manufacturer. Any such unit better have very solid provenance as not being former DoD or it's likely a stolen or lost unit. In either case, it would never be your property, even if you paid top dollar for it. if DoD discovers it, they'll take it.
This is also true of many other mil gear like body armor (Interceptor vests from Point Blank, for example)
This is also true of many other mil gear like body armor (Interceptor vests from Point Blank, for example)
1/8/2012 12:14:00 AM
Originally Posted By Homeinvader:
Yes, not illegal, just not available from the manufacturer. Any such unit better have very solid provenance as not being former DoD or it's likely a stolen or lost unit. In either case, it would never be your property, even if you paid top dollar for it. if DoD discovers it, they'll take it.
This is also true of many other mil gear like body armor (Interceptor vests from Point Blank, for example)
Yes, not illegal, just not available from the manufacturer. Any such unit better have very solid provenance as not being former DoD or it's likely a stolen or lost unit. In either case, it would never be your property, even if you paid top dollar for it. if DoD discovers it, they'll take it.
This is also true of many other mil gear like body armor (Interceptor vests from Point Blank, for example)
Not meaning to get completely off topic, but i bought an interceptor vest at envision express on Peterson AFB with no problem in 2003 and plates from Point Blank through a local dealer, I owned every bit of that legally. Only stipulation was from the PB dealer, they did want proof I was active duty military, but other than that there were no issues. Same dealer sells NVG's and IR sights brand new, but only to active duty military and law enforcement. Is there anything prohibiting ownership after someone leaves the military or law enforcement if it was privately owned during active service?
1/8/2012 11:36:30 AM
Originally Posted By Fredmisery:
Not meaning to get completely off topic, but i bought an interceptor vest at envision express on Peterson AFB with no problem in 2003 and plates from Point Blank through a local dealer, I owned every bit of that legally. Only stipulation was from the PB dealer, they did want proof I was active duty military, but other than that there were no issues. Same dealer sells NVG's and IR sights brand new, but only to active duty military and law enforcement. Is there anything prohibiting ownership after someone leaves the military or law enforcement if it was privately owned during active service?
Originally Posted By Homeinvader:
Yes, not illegal, just not available from the manufacturer. Any such unit better have very solid provenance as not being former DoD or it's likely a stolen or lost unit. In either case, it would never be your property, even if you paid top dollar for it. if DoD discovers it, they'll take it.
This is also true of many other mil gear like body armor (Interceptor vests from Point Blank, for example)
Yes, not illegal, just not available from the manufacturer. Any such unit better have very solid provenance as not being former DoD or it's likely a stolen or lost unit. In either case, it would never be your property, even if you paid top dollar for it. if DoD discovers it, they'll take it.
This is also true of many other mil gear like body armor (Interceptor vests from Point Blank, for example)
Not meaning to get completely off topic, but i bought an interceptor vest at envision express on Peterson AFB with no problem in 2003 and plates from Point Blank through a local dealer, I owned every bit of that legally. Only stipulation was from the PB dealer, they did want proof I was active duty military, but other than that there were no issues. Same dealer sells NVG's and IR sights brand new, but only to active duty military and law enforcement. Is there anything prohibiting ownership after someone leaves the military or law enforcement if it was privately owned during active service?
No..
You may have someone whos super special "investigate" the matter to see if it was stolen. The trick is, uneducated persons do not know the way nvg, laser, and armor companies do business, or the way they are thrown away and marked destroyed, or sold to individual soldiers or police.
if you bought it at a store on base and have a receipt/electronic sales record, it will obviously not be reported by a unit/agency as stolen because it wasn't, and the manufacturer's information would have stopped at who they sold it to originally (the company)
1/9/2012 12:24:35 AM
Originally Posted By Friendly_Crusader:
No..
You may have someone whos super special "investigate" the matter to see if it was stolen. The trick is, uneducated persons do not know the way nvg, laser, and armor companies do business, or the way they are thrown away and marked destroyed, or sold to individual soldiers or police.
if you bought it at a store on base and have a receipt/electronic sales record, it will obviously not be reported by a unit/agency as stolen because it wasn't, and the manufacturer's information would have stopped at who they sold it to originally (the company)
Originally Posted By Fredmisery:
Not meaning to get completely off topic, but i bought an interceptor vest at envision express on Peterson AFB with no problem in 2003 and plates from Point Blank through a local dealer, I owned every bit of that legally. Only stipulation was from the PB dealer, they did want proof I was active duty military, but other than that there were no issues. Same dealer sells NVG's and IR sights brand new, but only to active duty military and law enforcement. Is there anything prohibiting ownership after someone leaves the military or law enforcement if it was privately owned during active service?
Originally Posted By Homeinvader:
Yes, not illegal, just not available from the manufacturer. Any such unit better have very solid provenance as not being former DoD or it's likely a stolen or lost unit. In either case, it would never be your property, even if you paid top dollar for it. if DoD discovers it, they'll take it.
This is also true of many other mil gear like body armor (Interceptor vests from Point Blank, for example)
Yes, not illegal, just not available from the manufacturer. Any such unit better have very solid provenance as not being former DoD or it's likely a stolen or lost unit. In either case, it would never be your property, even if you paid top dollar for it. if DoD discovers it, they'll take it.
This is also true of many other mil gear like body armor (Interceptor vests from Point Blank, for example)
Not meaning to get completely off topic, but i bought an interceptor vest at envision express on Peterson AFB with no problem in 2003 and plates from Point Blank through a local dealer, I owned every bit of that legally. Only stipulation was from the PB dealer, they did want proof I was active duty military, but other than that there were no issues. Same dealer sells NVG's and IR sights brand new, but only to active duty military and law enforcement. Is there anything prohibiting ownership after someone leaves the military or law enforcement if it was privately owned during active service?
No..
You may have someone whos super special "investigate" the matter to see if it was stolen. The trick is, uneducated persons do not know the way nvg, laser, and armor companies do business, or the way they are thrown away and marked destroyed, or sold to individual soldiers or police.
if you bought it at a store on base and have a receipt/electronic sales record, it will obviously not be reported by a unit/agency as stolen because it wasn't, and the manufacturer's information would have stopped at who they sold it to originally (the company)
Makes sense. I actually sold the body armor to the Army in 2006 as part of their buyback program for soldiers who purchased their own body armor when it wasn't being issued Army-wide, that would have been problematic if it had been illegally acquired. Looking to join the Sheriff's Dept here locally for a couple years and plan on buying a few toys if everything pans out, just want to know I can keep personal purchases when I leave. While it has nothing to do with joining I have a few buddies who have scored some pretty sweet deals purchasing through the dept.
1/9/2012 1:14:22 AM
You are exactly right and it happens all the time (people purchasing stuff for duty). Other than some possible state law, or some department policy, there is no reason you cannot keep personally purchased armor, nvgs etc. that was purchased with personal money.
But like i said, there may come a time where someone tries to intimidate you into surrendering it on the grounds of "you couldn't have obtained that legally", but i doubt you will have a problem at all as an LEO or former/retired LEO in the future.
But like i said, there may come a time where someone tries to intimidate you into surrendering it on the grounds of "you couldn't have obtained that legally", but i doubt you will have a problem at all as an LEO or former/retired LEO in the future.
1/14/2012 10:20:49 PM
I guess I just need to make sure I maintain documentation, thanks for the info man!
