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What Was The Armor Penitration For A 203 HEDP
12/9/2010 8:56:08 PM
Some manuals I'm reading say 2'' but I've heard 3 also. Also, I wonder how effective they are, considering I've heard storys of LAWs just bouncing off armor in Vietnam.
12/10/2010 2:15:46 PM
Everything I've read reports M433 HEDP for M79/M203 and M430A1 HEDP for Mk19 to have "at least 5cm (2in.)" penetration of steel from a face-on strike.
I don't have any gold-tip on hand to test it live, sorry.
I don't have any gold-tip on hand to test it live, sorry.
12/10/2010 11:35:49 PM
Originally Posted By WarChildUSMC:
Some manuals I'm reading say 2'' but I've heard 3 also. Also, I wonder how effective they are, considering I've heard storys of LAWs just bouncing off armor in Vietnam.
Some manuals I'm reading say 2'' but I've heard 3 also. Also, I wonder how effective they are, considering I've heard storys of LAWs just bouncing off armor in Vietnam.
LAW
The M72 series LAW rockets have come a LOOOONG way since the 1970's!
The fuzing is much more improved (and extremely sensitive!).
203 HEDP
Regarding the penetration, you gotta be more specific than "HEDP" - there is alot more than just one or two varieties.
It also depends on the angle of attack, as the low pressure 40mm is primarily an indirect fire attack, so the angle of the plate on impact and the orientation of the munition when it FIRES (not impact!).
From ORDATA:
The M430 and M430A1 are percussion-fired, high-explosive, dual-purpose (HEDP) fragmentation cartridges with a shaped-charge effect designed to penetrate 2.00 inches (51 millimeters) and 3.00 inches (76 millimeters) of steel, respectively.
The M430 and M430A1 are percussion-fired, high-explosive, dual-purpose (HEDP) fragmentation cartridges with a shaped-charge effect designed to penetrate 2.00 inches (51 millimeters) and 3.00 inches (76 millimeters) of steel, respectively.
12/11/2010 3:11:33 PM
Which ever 203 HEDP would most likely be fielded by use military. 2" straight on is what I've heard too.
12/12/2010 6:03:49 AM
Originally Posted By William_lxix:
LAW
The M72 series LAW rockets have come a LOOOONG way since the 1970's!
The fuzing is much more improved (and extremely sensitive!).
203 HEDP
Regarding the penetration, you gotta be more specific than "HEDP" - there is alot more than just one or two varieties.
It also depends on the angle of attack, as the low pressure 40mm is primarily an indirect fire attack, so the angle of the plate on impact and the orientation of the munition when it FIRES (not impact!).
Originally Posted By WarChildUSMC:
Some manuals I'm reading say 2'' but I've heard 3 also. Also, I wonder how effective they are, considering I've heard storys of LAWs just bouncing off armor in Vietnam.
Some manuals I'm reading say 2'' but I've heard 3 also. Also, I wonder how effective they are, considering I've heard storys of LAWs just bouncing off armor in Vietnam.
LAW
The M72 series LAW rockets have come a LOOOONG way since the 1970's!
The fuzing is much more improved (and extremely sensitive!).
203 HEDP
Regarding the penetration, you gotta be more specific than "HEDP" - there is alot more than just one or two varieties.
It also depends on the angle of attack, as the low pressure 40mm is primarily an indirect fire attack, so the angle of the plate on impact and the orientation of the munition when it FIRES (not impact!).
From ORDATA:
The M430 and M430A1 are percussion-fired, high-explosive, dual-purpose (HEDP) fragmentation cartridges with a shaped-charge effect designed to penetrate 2.00 inches (51 millimeters) and 3.00 inches (76 millimeters) of steel, respectively.
The M430 and M430A1 are percussion-fired, high-explosive, dual-purpose (HEDP) fragmentation cartridges with a shaped-charge effect designed to penetrate 2.00 inches (51 millimeters) and 3.00 inches (76 millimeters) of steel, respectively.
angle of impact not being important? That is incorrect, one of the biggest variables on shaped charges penetration is angle of impact in relation to what is being hit.
12/12/2010 6:14:08 AM
Originally Posted By R0N:
angle of impact not being important? That is incorrect, one of the biggest variables on shaped charges penetration is angle of impact in relation to what is being hit.
Originally Posted By William_lxix:
LAW
The M72 series LAW rockets have come a LOOOONG way since the 1970's!
The fuzing is much more improved (and extremely sensitive!).
203 HEDP
Regarding the penetration, you gotta be more specific than "HEDP" - there is alot more than just one or two varieties.
It also depends on the angle of attack, as the low pressure 40mm is primarily an indirect fire attack, so the angle of the plate on impact and the orientation of the munition when it FIRES (not impact!).
Originally Posted By WarChildUSMC:
Some manuals I'm reading say 2'' but I've heard 3 also. Also, I wonder how effective they are, considering I've heard storys of LAWs just bouncing off armor in Vietnam.
Some manuals I'm reading say 2'' but I've heard 3 also. Also, I wonder how effective they are, considering I've heard storys of LAWs just bouncing off armor in Vietnam.
LAW
The M72 series LAW rockets have come a LOOOONG way since the 1970's!
The fuzing is much more improved (and extremely sensitive!).
203 HEDP
Regarding the penetration, you gotta be more specific than "HEDP" - there is alot more than just one or two varieties.
It also depends on the angle of attack, as the low pressure 40mm is primarily an indirect fire attack, so the angle of the plate on impact and the orientation of the munition when it FIRES (not impact!).
From ORDATA:
The M430 and M430A1 are percussion-fired, high-explosive, dual-purpose (HEDP) fragmentation cartridges with a shaped-charge effect designed to penetrate 2.00 inches (51 millimeters) and 3.00 inches (76 millimeters) of steel, respectively.
The M430 and M430A1 are percussion-fired, high-explosive, dual-purpose (HEDP) fragmentation cartridges with a shaped-charge effect designed to penetrate 2.00 inches (51 millimeters) and 3.00 inches (76 millimeters) of steel, respectively.
angle of impact not being important? That is incorrect, one of the biggest variables on shaped charges penetration is angle of impact in relation to what is being hit.
He' talking about the difference between the moment of impact, and the moment of ignition of the heat round (microseconds).
12/12/2010 7:03:28 AM
Ah, got it. Thought he meant something to the effect when "fired from the launcher"
12/12/2010 1:51:24 PM
Originally Posted By R0N:
Ah, got it. Thought he meant something to the effect when "fired from the launcher"
Ah, got it. Thought he meant something to the effect when "fired from the launcher"
Nope - DETONATION is everything in a shape charge - KE doesn't account for much...
- - - -
40mm HEDP isn't the end all - be all "Thermo-Gre-Nuke" that others make them out to be.
They do a couple things GOOD, but doesn't do everything GREAT (At All!)
~Will
12/12/2010 3:55:04 PM
I was thinking in terms of angle of departure and angle of fall.
12/23/2010 7:50:09 PM
Originally Posted By William_lxix:
It also depends on the angle of attack, as the low pressure 40mm is primarily an indirect fire attack, so the angle of the plate on impact and the orientation of the munition when it FIRES (not impact!).
It also depends on the angle of attack, as the low pressure 40mm is primarily an indirect fire attack, so the angle of the plate on impact and the orientation of the munition when it FIRES (not impact!).
Ahh, what? Can you explain this?
12/26/2010 2:25:06 PM
Sure my EOD bro,
Basically, Since the M203 is a low pressure indirect fire weapon system - which means the round is normally coming down at an extreme angle to the target - it matter with the ANGLE OF ATTACK (ie WHEN the munition fires) and not by the angle the 203 round HITS on - it matters WHEN it detonates. (I have seen -203 Point of Impact & Point of Firing vary by 3 inches on 90 degree plate [to the firer])
Since it isn't a fast firing fuze (like most Point Initiated HEAT rounds) its armor penetration isn't the greatest, but, its decent for a 'dual purpose' round and for exploiting weaker TOP armor.
I've seen guys shooting at doors and gates expecting that little bloop turd to THERMO NUKE the door/gate in...
I blame Hollyweird for the misconceptions.
Basically, Since the M203 is a low pressure indirect fire weapon system - which means the round is normally coming down at an extreme angle to the target - it matter with the ANGLE OF ATTACK (ie WHEN the munition fires) and not by the angle the 203 round HITS on - it matters WHEN it detonates. (I have seen -203 Point of Impact & Point of Firing vary by 3 inches on 90 degree plate [to the firer])
Since it isn't a fast firing fuze (like most Point Initiated HEAT rounds) its armor penetration isn't the greatest, but, its decent for a 'dual purpose' round and for exploiting weaker TOP armor.
I've seen guys shooting at doors and gates expecting that little bloop turd to THERMO NUKE the door/gate in...
I blame Hollyweird for the misconceptions.
12/29/2010 4:56:09 PM
I'm still not sure what you are saying, but I have fired an HEDP into an m113 at just past arming distance (30m or so), and it punched a hole through the side of the vehicle. The projectile was traveling very flat at the time of impact.
To my knowledge there are no US issued HEDP 40mm rounds for the 203 that select function based on angle of impact.. or launch (but things change... maybe there is something new out there).
To my knowledge there are no US issued HEDP 40mm rounds for the 203 that select function based on angle of impact.. or launch (but things change... maybe there is something new out there).
12/29/2010 11:22:00 PM
Sorry bro, its clear in my head - I am having a tough time articulating...
How about: There is a delay between IMPACT and FIRING - the perception is more exagerated at distances over 150m (downward angle of the projo vs the angle of armor on the target).
M113 armor is easier to punch through than RHA (Rolled Homogenous Armor). 7.62Nato hardball will chew through the side of a M113 (we have many as targets on Dugway).
~Will
How about: There is a delay between IMPACT and FIRING - the perception is more exagerated at distances over 150m (downward angle of the projo vs the angle of armor on the target).
M113 armor is easier to punch through than RHA (Rolled Homogenous Armor). 7.62Nato hardball will chew through the side of a M113 (we have many as targets on Dugway).
~Will
