AR15.Com Archives
 Putting Garlic in Bullets, also Mercury question
c-rock  [Member]
12/19/2001 10:27:02 PM
I was at the FFL yesterday, and one of the old timers were talking about how he dips his bullets in his revolver in garlic. I thought he was shitting with me on this. I was thinking he was afraid of vampires or something.
Says the garlic will make sure the dude is dead, if not from the wound, but because he will get blood poisoning.
Is that true?

On the same token, I have heard that using bullets tipped with mercury will explode on impact, causing worse wounds.
Is that true?

While were at it, lets talk about silver bullets, great for werewolfs, but did/does anyone do that? Is silver a good jacket to use, like copper? Would a soild silver bullet be more harder that a lead one?

c-rock
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Kalifornia  [Member]
12/19/2001 10:38:38 PM
Very interesting. Did you ever see a man that looked like him on Buffy, the Vampire Slayer?

I'd think someone was BSing me if they told me that shit.
marvl  [Team Member]
12/19/2001 10:40:20 PM
Dunno if bullets dipped in garlic help kill anything, but they would certainly help flavor the meat. There's a well know chicken recipe, "Chicken With 40 Cloves of Garlic". I suppose one could envision "Chicken Shot With 40 Rounds Dipped In Garlic".
ILove2Shoot  [Industry Partner]
12/19/2001 10:42:00 PM
with the Mercury bullets, I think that might be against the law...but the way the those are usually set up is not to dip them in mercury, cause if you think about it, mercury is a liquid at normal temps, so it wont really stay on the bullet. But a hollow point is filled with mercury and then capped with either wax or JB weld. It does make the wound a little worse (how much worse I dont know), but what makes them nasty is that you poison the target with mercury directly into the blood. So even if it is a minor flesh wound that would normally be servivable, they now have a severe case of mercury blood poisoning...basically they will die from the mercury poisoning.
cpermd  [Member]
12/19/2001 10:48:34 PM
I am doubtful about mercury poisoning.
Elemental or liquid mercury is not poisonous.
We have a child brought in every week to the ED because of mercury ingestion from a thermometer.
If they ate the glass we have them eat several pieces of bread and oatmeal over the next 24 hours.
Otherwise,ignore it.
Mercury fumes are toxic as shit!
cpermd
TheAtomicPunk  [Member]
12/19/2001 10:51:15 PM
Ha-ha!

This is kinda funny.
sgtar15  [Team Member]
12/19/2001 10:51:38 PM
This old man has to be BSing you. I highly doubt garlic would do anything other than give the badguy bad breath. Personnaly I would have laughed and suggested he shot the bad guy twice instead of lead poisoning him.

Sgtar15
50cali  [Member]
12/19/2001 11:02:19 PM
They used to dip those pungee sticks in scat during the Vietnam Era. I think I saw another post here on how to make home made scat with marshmellows and stuff.
TheWind  [Team Member]
12/19/2001 11:10:39 PM
Someone has been watching too many God Father movies, Hey you gona sleep with the fishes....
rabbit  [Member]
12/19/2001 11:21:44 PM
I heard the garlic thing when I was growing up.Also the mercury, and at one time I was told the insides of golf balls contain nuclear material(the way things are going,that just might end up as the latest trend). I think it's one of those many myths you hear when around gunowners, like the AR is unreliable, Glocks don't show up on metal detectors and the 9mm is just as good as the 45.
Admiral_Crunch  [Team Member]
12/19/2001 11:58:53 PM
Silver is too hard to grab the rifling. If someone actually ever used silver bullets, they would have no accuracy.
ILove2Shoot  [Industry Partner]
12/20/2001 12:07:29 AM
Mercury

Description: Silvery heavy liquid. Used in thermometers, barometers, mirrors. Was once used in the hat-making industry. The most famous example of mercury poisoning is the Mad Hatter in Alice In Wonderland; many hatters died or went insane from mercury poisoning.

Contact: Inhalation, skin contact.

General Hazard: Corrosive.

Overexposure: Chest pain, pulmonary edema, death.

Longterm Exposure: Mercury poising ("mad hatter's syndrome"): kidney disease, tremors, gum disease, loss of concentration and memory, mood changes. Clouding of eyes.Toxicity


The acute toxicity of mercury varies significantly with the route of exposure. Ingestion is largely without effects. Inhalation of high concentrations of mercury causes severe respiratory irritation, digestive disturbances, and marked kidney damage. There are no warning properties for exposure to mercury vapor, which is colorless, odorless, and tasteless.
Toxicity caused by repeated or prolonged exposure to mercury vapor or liquid is characterized by emotional disturbances, inflammation of the mouth and gums, general fatigue, memory loss, headaches, tremors, anorexia, and weight loss. Skin absorption of mercury and mercury vapor adds to the toxic effects of vapor inhalation. At low levels the onset of symptoms is insidious; fine tremors of the hand, eyelids, lips, and tongue are often the presenting complaints. Mercury has been reported to be capable of causing sensitization dermatitis. Mercury has not been shown to be a human carcinogen or reproductive toxin.

Wouldnt this liquid basically be Vaperorized upon impact and be absorbed by the blood. By swalling it, it does not vaporize and pretty much will PASS through you.

cyrax777  [Team Member]
12/20/2001 12:25:04 AM
hell i shoot silver bullets all the time there called LASER CAST! the use a little bit of silver as part of ther metal mix makes the bullet harder

if theres ever a vampire at a cowbou action shoot i can kill the SOB
grimshaw  [Member]
12/20/2001 12:26:35 AM
Look for the movie "Confessions of an Assassin". The subject of the movie, James E. Files claimed to have shot JFK from the grassy knoll using a "Fireball". The Fireball was a Rem XP100 14" pistol with a 3x scope that was new in 1962. Files had his rechambered to .222 Rem firing a 40gr. projectile @ 3100 fps. He claimed to have used a mercury filled bullet. If this is true it would explain the devasting results. It might also explain why JFK's brain was stolen from the National Archive. Proof of the presence of mercury excludes Oswald. The testimony contained in the tape netted Files an additional 80 years to his life sentences for contract killing for Sam Giancana and the Chicago mob. He also claimed to have extracted the kill shot brass, bit into it with his back teeth and set it on the fence. I've thought about that a lot, and I guess I'm not that familar with mercury. Would you solder it into a hollowed out bullet? Use a set screw? Epoxy? A drilled out Barnes X?
Redmanfms  [Team Member]
12/20/2001 1:15:44 AM

Originally Posted By Admiral_Crunch:
Silver is too hard to grab the rifling. If someone actually ever used silver bullets, they would have no accuracy.



Silver was used in a test conducting in Germany in the early 1700s when the rifle first started appearing. They used solid silver balls etched with a cross and tested them opposite lead balls. The silver being too hard to grab the rifling shot terribly, the lead of course provided excellent results. The conclusion of the bishop who commissioned the "test" was that the rifle was the work of the devil because God's metal with the symbol of Christ etched into it would not allow the rifle to be accurately fired.
Golgo-13  [Member]
12/20/2001 1:24:22 AM
Mercury dissolves lead. Okay, technically it forms an "amalgam." That is why gunsmiths used to remove leading from barrels by filling them with mercury. The upshot is that mercury-filled hollow points begin to self destruct the moment you put the Hg in the Pb. As a result, accuracy from them tends to be poor. It also dissolves aluminum. Keep that in mind before combining Hg wih AR's or alloy-framed pistols.
Garlic on bullets? Since garlic acts as a disinfectant on surfaces, if I HAD to be shot I'd appreciate it being done with a disinfected bullet.
ILove2Shoot  [Industry Partner]
12/20/2001 1:26:10 AM
Pure silver would not be a good bullet, but silver added to a bullet mix would be good, or even a silver coare (sp).

to get the best results from the mercury, you would either need to drill out the bullet or find one with a deep cavity in the hollow point. I would think that wax would probably work, if not then a little JB weld over the top would work.
Crookshanks  [Team Member]
12/20/2001 1:49:14 AM
Both mercury and garlic bullets have received the Hollywood treatment.
Mercury exploding bullets were featured in The Day Of The Jackal.
The poisoned garlic bullets were used in the movie The Saint Valentine's Day Massacre.

Bonus points if you know the actor who imparted the Mafia wisdom of garlic dipping.
RomaRana  [Member]
12/20/2001 5:16:10 AM
That garlic thing is from a movie. But it is defenalty rooted in tradition rather than "killing potential." Garlic wards off the maloiccia (spelling). Maloiccia is normaly the evil eye or caused mostly by envy. This would be used to ward off possible hauntings or bad luck after commiting the crime.

Hehehe when I was a baby my parents put garlic in my crib.

Also the KGB would use ricin implanted in a hollow point for assanation. Ricin causes a host of infections mostly respratory. It is a distilled derivate of castor beans.
Stealth  [Team Member]
12/20/2001 5:59:35 AM
I'll bet bullets dipped in smallpox would do the trick.

As far as my way of thinking... It doesn't matter what the hell you dip them in, a few well aimed/placed .45 hollowpoints to the head should do the trick.

The first and most important aspect of taking a life with a bullet, is shot placement. Everything else is BS.
mr_wilson  [Team Member]
12/20/2001 6:29:12 AM
Maybe a dumb question, but what were Winchester Silver-tips made of?

Mike
osprey21  [Team Member]
12/20/2001 6:41:13 AM
$$$ GOLD $$$
Glockdiver  [Member]
12/20/2001 7:55:01 AM
15 years ago when I was 19, I made 5 silver bullets. I had watched one too many werewolf movies. I melted silver dollars w/ mapp gas, poured into a heated .38 mold and loaded them into a .357 nikel case. They were beautiful. I still have them, I have always been afraid to fire them because I feared they would damage the rifling. However, If I ever see a werewolf..... Remember guys, the Lone Ranger used silver bullets and he never made a bad shot!.!.?
mr_wilson  [Team Member]
12/20/2001 8:24:16 AM
Too funny osprey, LMAO.

Mike
AR_Rifle  [Team Member]
12/20/2001 8:25:25 AM
The Garlic ordor alone will kill....no need for bullet.
Centauro97  [Member]
12/20/2001 9:02:05 AM
Silver tips use aluminum jackets.

It's hard for me to believe that sterling silver is that much harder than gilding metal used in bullet jackets. It sure costs a lot more which is why I think we aren't seeing solid silver bullets.

Mercury filled bullets would act similar to a pre-fragmented design. Nasty wound, but not due to toxicity. Remember, lead is just as toxic, but when people get shot, they don't really die of the "lead poisoning".

Garlic dipping...LMAO...like the "buzz saw" affect of Black Talon bullets. Just don't let ATF know about the garlic affect.
ErickM  [Member]
12/20/2001 10:32:17 AM
silver bullets with garlic on them and a cross etched in would be the ultimate and if they're good for werewolves and vampires I figure they must be just as good on godless atheists and hippies.
Meplat  [Member]
12/20/2001 10:34:42 AM
I dip my bullets in McDonalds secret sauce..
The hollowpoints get filled with ketchup..

I mix garlic powder in the propellant for that "Fine Italian Cuisine" smell with each shot, then clean the guns in a fine Chianti..

-Meplat
Golgo-13  [Member]
12/20/2001 10:44:54 AM
Only line I ever laughed at from beavis and butthead:

"We're out of secret sauce. Put another bucket of mayonaise out in the sun."
Keith_J  [Member]
12/20/2001 10:59:59 AM

Originally Posted By c-rock:
I was at the FFL yesterday, and one of the old timers were talking about how he dips his bullets in his revolver in garlic. I thought he was shitting with me on this. I was thinking he was afraid of vampires or something.
Says the garlic will make sure the dude is dead, if not from the wound, but because he will get blood poisoning.
Is that true?


Pure BS. Russians used garlic in WWII as they didn't have antibiotics. They packed infected wounds with it, stopping the infection.


On the same token, I have heard that using bullets tipped with mercury will explode on impact, causing worse wounds.
Is that true?


Also pure BS. Mercury will HARDEN lead. There is nothing one can add to lead to make it softer. I imagine adding enough mercury to create an amalgam would be quite "mushy" but it would disintegrate before impact. Mechanically mixed amalgams like the old dental filling stuff are soft due to the mercury which coats the silver and tin powders. Eventually the mercury diffuses into the silver and tin and forms a solid mass of alloy. Set dental amalgam is HARDER than annealed tin or silver



While were at it, lets talk about silver bullets, great for werewolfs, but did/does anyone do that? Is silver a good jacket to use, like copper? Would a soild silver bullet be more harder that a lead one?

c-rock



Yes, it would be considerably harder but it wouldn't pose any problem. Bullets have been cast out of Zamak and zinc with no ill effects.
MOLITAS  [Member]
12/20/2001 11:13:57 AM
Anybody remember the movie Jaws 2?
In that film Chief Brody (Roy Scheider) filled his hollowpoints with IIRC Sodium Cyanide,then capped them with wax.
Don't quite know how lethal a grazing wound would be from the Cyanide but it sounds interesting.
c-rock  [Member]
12/20/2001 11:31:23 AM
Ok guys,
I get the point, it was a old wifes tale told at the fun store.
c-rock
Keith_J  [Member]
12/20/2001 11:37:48 AM

Originally Posted By c-rock:
Ok guys,
I get the point, it was a old wifes tale told at the fun store.
c-rock



Some might tell such tales for comedy but there are people that believe such stuff and will go to their graves thinking mercury will make a bullet more lethal.
mjacvn71  [Member]
12/20/2001 12:08:05 PM
Im not even going to touch the garlic issue! lmao! But I can see the mercury doing heavy damage if it (bullet) hit someone. Mercury is Very dense! Have you ever felt how heavy mercury is? The reason it would do damage is because of its weight inside the lead projectile. A equivalent projectile would weigh condsiderably more with mercury in it! More weight combined with muzzle velocity will equal more energy(weight) at the point of impact.
Keith_J  [Member]
12/20/2001 12:23:33 PM
I'm throwing a brown flag on the energy issue :D

Hg has only a 20% greater density than Pb meaning a bullet made of 100% Hg would be 20% heavier than lead. The only problem is you would have to keep such a slug colder than -40 degrees (take your pick, C or F, its the same only at that temperature).

So, if you were able to contain it in a copper jacket, it would only have about a 10-15% weight increase over lead. Not significant.

The supposed increase in lethality is due to the lower energy of deformation since its a liquid (see my post above, it actually HARDENS metals its alloyed with so I'm talking pure Hg). This is also false as it would expend its enegry in mechanisms low in tissue destruction, much like a water balloon. Which would you rather get hit with, a liquid water balloon or a frozen one?
10X  [Member]
12/20/2001 7:25:25 PM
kieth regaurding your comment about how you cant add anything to led to make it softer
ok ok are you ready for this HEAT
timewarp  [Member]
12/20/2001 7:53:49 PM
FYI
In pre cop killer bullets era, a company in WA. state made mercury core rifle and pistol rounds.Never sold well and were hard to find.Check in old SOF magazines.
marvl  [Team Member]
12/20/2001 8:01:23 PM
I use hollow points filled with my wife's cooking. They'll kill anything.
Keith_J  [Member]
12/20/2001 8:11:00 PM

Originally Posted By 10X:
kieth regaurding your comment about how you cant add anything to led to make it softer
ok ok are you ready for this HEAT



Ok, you are cute. But I can also take that heat right away...

You could have mentioned annealing a lead alloy but that will net only a few Brinel hardness numbers of reduction.

Its another HollyWeird hype story. Possibly someone saw a bullet caster and thought the lead had mercury in it as Hg was the only fluid, silvery metal they had ever seen. Remember, all other liquid metals were incandescing before Terminator II.
Gunbert  [Team Member]
12/20/2001 11:22:46 PM

Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Which would you rather get hit with, a liquid water balloon or a frozen one?




At rifle velocities (2800+ FPS), it wouldn't matter much if the water balloon was frozen or room temp.

The increased density of the mercury is not what causes the greater wound damage, rather it's the property of a dense metal fluid blasting through soft tissue. The mercury would turn into several small metal balls, each dissipating energy along it's own wound channel, maximizing energy transfer to the target... I remember reading somewhere that mercury filled rounds were the original "dum dum" rounds.
faris  [Member]
12/21/2001 12:53:58 AM
The garlic idea is, of course, an old Sicilian tradition. The favored weapon of choice is the Lupara (sawed-off shotgun). The traditional load was large lumps of lead (about '0' buckshot size, filed into pyramids, and stacked into the shell. Then garlic was poured into the shot, in the belief it would cause blood poisoning. The large pyramidal shot was thought to cause more severe damage.

Instead of all the trouble of casting silver bullets, just use the old West/Viet Nam method of stacking silver dimes into a shotgun shell.
SEALS called this the "Keep the change Charlie"
technique. The dimes were suposed to "cut through" brush better.

Now, as every true sportsman knows, silver is quite useless on vampires. The approved load is a bundle of golf tee's, soaked in garlic juice and loaded into a shotgun shell.
Position yourself in you're virginal (you hope)daughter's bedroom. When the beggar comes through the window, wait until you see the red of his eyes, and give him a good dose of Mr. Remington's best.

For hippies, (aging or original) the ideal weapon for the hunt is a Super Soaker, loaded with any good detergent. One wiff of soap, and they'll flee for their lives.

Don't waste your time on werewolves. Simply put him in your car and dump him in any big city park after dark.....who'll notice.
entropy  [Member]
12/21/2001 10:29:02 AM
I think the whole mercury thing has evolved from the old movie "Day of the Jackal" (the first one!).

The Jackal put what was supposed to be Fulminate of Mercury, a highly explosive substance, into his bullets. Mercury Fulminate is used in blasting caps.

I think folks got the wrong impression that mercury would blow up just as well.

It would appear to me, that launching a blasting cap out of a firearm would be a really bad thing for the operator of such firearm, so I'm not sure how real the movie was in this regard. Don't try this at home, kids.



Golgo-13  [Member]
12/21/2001 10:37:37 AM
Bullets packed with explosive have been tried often before. They were even used in the American Civil War. Reagan was shot with them. The problem with them is that they don't detonate reliably on human targets. None of the bullets that struck Reagan or Brady detonated for example. I don't know what the explosive used in such things is, but it would seem to be something like mercury fulminate or lead styphinate or one of the other primer compounds that will detonate from impact.
gunman0  [Team Member]
12/21/2001 10:47:57 AM
The problem with simple homemade detonate on impact rounds is that they tend to go off in the barrel when fired if they go off at all.
ARMALITE-FAN  [Member]
12/21/2001 10:51:21 AM
Here is were bullets and mercury come together.I know this for a fact from reading vintage Africian hunting books.Mercury was used to harden muzzle loading balls.This was done for penatration on larger animals.It wasn't known then how toxic it was.When melting lead mercury was added to it.It vaporized.This caused something called bush madness.Though at the time it was thought to be caused by prolonged periods of isolation instead of mercury posion.
Keith_J  [Member]
12/21/2001 11:10:06 AM

Originally Posted By Gunbert:

Originally Posted By Keith_J:

Which would you rather get hit with, a liquid water balloon or a frozen one?




At rifle velocities (2800+ FPS), it wouldn't matter much if the water balloon was frozen or room temp.

The increased density of the mercury is not what causes the greater wound damage, rather it's the property of a dense metal fluid blasting through soft tissue. The mercury would turn into several small metal balls, each dissipating energy along it's own wound channel, maximizing energy transfer to the target... I remember reading somewhere that mercury filled rounds were the original "dum dum" rounds.



Um, NO! The mercury would atomize nearly instantly. Penetration would be severly limited although there might be energy effects in the very close proximity of the inital entry site.

Mercury would have to be the entire contents of the bullet, otherwise it would amalgamate with any lead present, forming intermetallics harder than each parent metal.

Dum-dums, as produced in India back when it was a British colony, were nothing more than a round-nosed softpoint with exposed lead.
Noname  [Team Member]
12/21/2001 11:33:08 AM
And may I add to Keith J's post, the term Dum Dum came from the bullets being made at the govt arsenal at Dum Dum India...
antiUSSA  [Member]
12/21/2001 12:00:08 PM
Years ago I used to reload...

Every now and then, I would get really creative with my loads and on a few occassions do play with mercury!

By filling hollowpoints with mercury, and then sealing with pure beeswax, they became very stable... When shot, the mercury would be forced back against the solid metals that actually make up the bullet and created awesome expansion upon impact.
Bretshooter  [Member]
12/21/2001 1:03:46 PM

Originally Posted By Keith_J:
Mercury would have to be the entire contents of the bullet, otherwise it would amalgamate with any lead present, forming intermetallics harder than each parent metal.




You said earlier that the amalgam was made when the Hg contacted powdered lead. Being a powder, it would allow the mercury to contact all of the lead present. But with just the surface of the bullet cavity exposed to the Hg, might it not just amalgamate with the lead it can contact directly, creating an amalgam cup? Would it necessarily be able to dissolve any additional lead from the bullet thru that amalgamated layer?
ArmaLiter  [Team Member]
12/21/2001 2:32:26 PM
This topic is interesting because my father once told me that, during the Korean war, some of the U.S. troops there would dip their rounds in garlic. It was believed that garlic would act like a blood thinner preventing the bleeding to stop, the wound wouldn't heal and would cause infection. The garlic wouldn't kill the enemy, it would just prevent the wounded from properly healing.
Don't know if this holds true or not, but it an interesting story of what soldiers did during the war.

ArmaLiter
Keith_J  [Member]
12/21/2001 3:03:02 PM

Originally Posted By Bretshooter:


You said earlier that the amalgam was made when the Hg contacted powdered lead. Being a powder, it would allow the mercury to contact all of the lead present. But with just the surface of the bullet cavity exposed to the Hg, might it not just amalgamate with the lead it can contact directly, creating an amalgam cup? Would it necessarily be able to dissolve any additional lead from the bullet thru that amalgamated layer?



Dental amalgam is made from powdered solid metals and liquid mercury precisely to set in minutes, completely hardening in 5 days.

If you were to fill a hollowpoint with mercury, it might last a few days but the mercury would eventually diffuse into all of the lead.

I once dissolved an air rifle pellet in Hg, it taking several days. I even played with adding more lead until it "froze". My hand warmth would melt it.

How long it would take a rifle bullet? A few more days.

Mercury wouldn't just attack the lead, it would also hit the copper jacketing, making it brittle from zinc depletion (most jackets are 5% Zn). It wouldn't stop at the jacket but would eventually hit the case.

Mercury dissolves most metals. Some are more resistant but silver, copper, gold and lead are are easily contaminated by this metal. Matter of fact, Hg was used to refine gold ore back in the days of Spanish colonies in Mexico. Ore was dosed with mercury and allowed to sit. The mercury/gold mixture was recovered and the Hg was distilled off, leaving behind gold powder.

Trust me on this, you aren't getting any magic by adding Hg to any bullet.
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