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 Beretta ARX 160 - It's BEAUTIFUL MAN.
SilentType  [Team Member]
2/3/2010 11:58:39 AM
SHOT Show 2008 Video Presentation of ARX 160-Youtube

WOW.

Switching ejection doesn't get much easier than that. Barrel removal...way more simple than the ACR.

Charging handle location is PERFECT.

Question: Does the charging handle reciprocate or is it non-reciprocating?

Concern: Not too sure about the polymer upper receiver, but it must be pretty light weight.

We have to get Beretta to bring this to civilian market in SEMI-AUTO form...it's a MUST.
airgunner  [Team Member]
2/3/2010 12:38:12 PM
Beretta ARX-160
Frens  [Member]
2/3/2010 12:46:31 PM
too much polymer for my taste but a lots of interesting features.
I read in a italian magazine a few moths ago they have a semiauto version in mind...soon or later...

eta:
the charging handle reciprocates afaik
BillofRights  [Team Member]
2/3/2010 12:51:37 PM
Originally Posted By SilentType:
SHOT Show 2008 Video Presentation of ARX 160-Youtube

WOW.

Switching ejection doesn't get much easier than that. Barrel removal...way more simple than the ACR.

Charging handle location is PERFECT.

Question: Does the charging handle reciprocate or is it non-reciprocating?

Concern: Not too sure about the polymer upper receiver, but it must be pretty light weight.

We have to get Beretta to bring this to civilian market in SEMI-AUTO form...it's a MUST.


The Chris Farley looking dude doing the FN SCAR demo is not a good public speaker, At all. It was a good presentation, but very difficult to listen to. Uuummmm Aaahhhhh, Eeeemmmm, Eehhhhhh Worse than Obama without a teleprompter. How did he get the job?


That Beretta looks like a brilliant design. I love the way you can switch between left of right hand ejection so easily.

Gunman12188  [Member]
2/3/2010 1:59:58 PM
take a look at this vid of the arx-160 firing... in one scene he switches ejection mid-magazine... petty cool...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YK4CcvW3I3M&feature=fvw

edit because i forgot to post link to vid lol
Gelgoog  [Member]
2/3/2010 2:34:22 PM
so any knews if we will see this released stateside? MSRP?
HiramRanger  [Life Member]
2/3/2010 2:35:08 PM
My Sicilian heart beats proudly... DO want!
LUGERMAN  [Team Member]
2/3/2010 2:40:23 PM
OUTSTANDING!!!
SilentType  [Team Member]
2/3/2010 2:43:13 PM
Apparently, the bottom magazine release below the trigger is also the bolt hold open and release control? Is that right?

Has the ARX160 been formally adopted by the Italian military? I know it has been to Afghanistan with select units.

If Beretta could sell the rifle for say 1,500 EUROs that would be an MSRP of $2,087.10. Highly competitive with the SCAR and ACR, which are both hundreds of dollars more. I assume the ARX-160's development was funded by Italy? If that's true and they have a contract to supply the entire Italian military than their need to recover tool-up costs and recover R&D would be minimum. Then all they have to do is have the upper receiver, barrel, and a few other parts to be in full compliance with 922r (it takes AR magazines so there is three parts right there and you've got the upper receiver and barrel I believe that have to be U.S. made). They already have a U.S. factory here so they'd just need a bit more floor space here and could possibly even import some of the machines they would need for the job. They do that and make sure that ATF is happy with the sear and the compliance of 922r and they're in business basically. Should be easier for them to bring the ARX160 here than it was for Steyr to bring in the AUG A3. Steyr put out the AUG A3 with an MSRP of $2,300 and they had to pay for their Sabre Defense Contract so I bet Beretta could probably do it cheaper than that even.



SilentType  [Team Member]
2/3/2010 2:49:11 PM
I can live with the reciprocating charging, because it's not really obstructive or bulky.

The lack of the cheek riser on the stock...not a big deal.

Just wonder about the polymer upper receiver and how it will handle heat. I suppose the Italian Military has probably beat the hell of this rifle though so if anyone has any intel on how she has held up under testing and field use feel free to chime in.

I assume a PMAG will work or would you need an EMAG?

Total Weight 6.6 lbs. with a 16" barrel without magazine.
SilentType  [Team Member]
2/3/2010 2:56:26 PM
Check this out: Beretta is scheduled to start shipping 30,000 ARX 160 rifles to the Italian military sometime this year.

It's also caliber modular. Apparently it is designed to go from 5.56x45mm to 6.8 SPC and 7.62x39. Although I haven't seen any demos on caliber conversion yet.
Master_Blaster  [Member]
2/3/2010 3:36:26 PM
I read a post-rumor on a board - maybe it was here - that Baretta might be putting out commercial versions. Only a rumor, but then you never know. The relatively weak dollar-exchange rate going on right now won't help the price-point.

The AXR-160 "all-polymer chassis" brings up thoughts of the XM-8.

Originally Posted By BillofRights:
Originally Posted By SilentType:
SHOT Show 2008 Video Presentation of ARX 160-Youtube

WOW.

Switching ejection doesn't get much easier than that. Barrel removal...way more simple than the ACR.

Charging handle location is PERFECT.

Question: Does the charging handle reciprocate or is it non-reciprocating?

Concern: Not too sure about the polymer upper receiver, but it must be pretty light weight.

We have to get Beretta to bring this to civilian market in SEMI-AUTO form...it's a MUST.


The Chris Farley looking dude doing the FN SCAR demo is not a good public speaker, At all. It was a good presentation, but very difficult to listen to. Uuummmm Aaahhhhh, Eeeemmmm, Eehhhhhh Worse than Obama without a teleprompter. How did he get the job?


That Beretta looks like a brilliant design. I love the way you can switch between left of right hand ejection so easily.


ETA: +1 Damn, that Mk17S video was painful to watch/hear.
Gamma762  [Team Member]
2/3/2010 3:52:02 PM
Originally Posted By SilentType:
Apparently, the bottom magazine release below the trigger is also the bolt hold open and release control? Is that right?

Yes. One quirk of this is that you cannot lock open the bolt with a magazine in the rifle, as pressing the button to activate the bolt lock will simultaneously drop the magazine. It's also a bit awkward to activate the bolt hold open for a malfunction clearance as it takes both hands and the firing hand will have to come off the firing grip. It's one of the big concerns I have with the rifle.

The charging handle reciprocates with the bolt group and easily changes sides.
UZI4you  [Team Member]
2/3/2010 3:55:00 PM
I love the quick change barrel feature Best QC barrel system since the Steyr AUG IMO.

MSARDave  [Industry Partner]
2/3/2010 4:18:52 PM
Originally Posted By BillofRights:
Originally Posted By SilentType:
SHOT Show 2008 Video Presentation of ARX 160-Youtube

WOW.

Switching ejection doesn't get much easier than that. Barrel removal...way more simple than the ACR.

Charging handle location is PERFECT.

Question: Does the charging handle reciprocate or is it non-reciprocating?

Concern: Not too sure about the polymer upper receiver, but it must be pretty light weight.

We have to get Beretta to bring this to civilian market in SEMI-AUTO form...it's a MUST.


The Chris Farley looking dude doing the FN SCAR demo is not a good public speaker, At all. It was a good presentation, but very difficult to listen to. Uuummmm Aaahhhhh, Eeeemmmm, Eehhhhhh Worse than Obama without a teleprompter. How did he get the job?


That Beretta looks like a brilliant design. I love the way you can switch between left of right hand ejection so easily.



That guy got that job because he is a hell of a good guy, knows his product inside and out, and is a hell of a three gun competitor as well. When the guys with the video cameras come up to you at the shows, its not like they have an apointment and you have had any time to think about it. They are just there, right now, in your face with a camera. I don't mean to jump on anybody about that but the video cameras at SHOT were out of control this year.
Frens  [Member]
2/3/2010 5:18:39 PM
Originally Posted By SilentType:
Has the ARX160 been formally adopted by the Italian military? I know it has been to Afghanistan with select units.


not yet adopted.
first they started testing the new Grenade Launcher mounted on the old AR-70/90 now they're testing the rifle as well.

SilentType  [Team Member]
2/3/2010 5:49:45 PM
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
Originally Posted By SilentType:
Apparently, the bottom magazine release below the trigger is also the bolt hold open and release control? Is that right?

Yes. One quirk of this is that you cannot lock open the bolt with a magazine in the rifle, as pressing the button to activate the bolt lock will simultaneously drop the magazine. It's also a bit awkward to activate the bolt hold open for a malfunction clearance as it takes both hands and the firing hand will have to come off the firing grip. It's one of the big concerns I have with the rifle.

The charging handle reciprocates with the bolt group and easily changes sides.



Well...@#$&...it's always something isn't it? The perfect rifle has not yet been made unfortunately.

I gotta play with it some and figure that out though, because I love a lot of features about this rifle.

I don't see why they couldn't just make that lower release strictly dedicated to the BHO and release. I mean I don't need three different magazine release points..bit over kill. I suspect they wanted a mag release in that area for the European nations that don't want guys dropping mags on the ground.
Gamma762  [Team Member]
2/3/2010 5:51:19 PM
There are a few other design quirks which seem to indicate that the folks who designed the rifle don't really have a good working knowledge of the usage of rifles.

Something that I noticed when I first picked it up is that there is nowhere to rest your trigger finger when using the correct technique. The magwell is a long reach even for my long fingers, and it's completely smooth and slopes away from the trigger so the only available rest is the mag release button, which is otherwise essentially unshielded (another quirk). Bolt release requires a downward push on the "multifunction button" from within the trigger guard and it's awkward to do with your trigger finger without shifting your firing grip.

The safety is just a little too high on the side and the shape would be uncomfortable in long term use IMO. The sling mount also partially blocks access to the safety and your thumb would ride on the edge of the mount when in a ready grip. The detent on the safety was also rather stiff and almost impossible to return to the safe position without shifting the firing grip. The checkering texture molded into the grip was also much to aggressive for my taste, similar to early HK USPs.

ETA: Just watching the video... he's incorrect, changing the charging handle does not change the direction of ejection. There are holes at the back of the receiver on each side just in front of the stock mount where you can insert a bullet tip to change the direction of ejection. Ejection and charging handle side are independent.
JohnnyMcEldoo  [Member]
2/3/2010 5:52:17 PM
I really want one of those ARX's. Looks pretty light like the G36.

The guy did a fine job showcasing the SCAR. I dont want someone like john edwards trying to sell me something I want a real person.
SilentType  [Team Member]
2/3/2010 5:54:41 PM
Originally Posted By Frens:
Originally Posted By SilentType:
Has the ARX160 been formally adopted by the Italian military? I know it has been to Afghanistan with select units.


not yet adopted.
first they started testing the new Grenade Launcher mounted on the old AR-70/90 now they're testing the rifle as well.



I think it's probably in my top five of most interesting rifles out there right now. Beretta has definitely presented the Italian military with a modern design.
SilentType  [Team Member]
2/3/2010 6:04:52 PM
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
There are a few other design quirks which seem to indicate that the folks who designed the rifle don't really have a good working knowledge of the usage of rifles.

Something that I noticed when I first picked it up is that there is nowhere to rest your trigger finger when using the correct technique. The magwell is a long reach even for my long fingers, and it's completely smooth and slopes away from the trigger so the only available rest is the mag release button, which is otherwise essentially unshielded (another quirk). Bolt release requires a downward push on the "multifunction button" from within the trigger guard and it's awkward to do with your trigger finger without shifting your firing grip.

The safety is just a little too high on the side and the shape would be uncomfortable in long term use IMO. The sling mount also partially blocks access to the safety and your thumb would ride on the edge of the mount when in a ready grip. The detent on the safety was also rather stiff and almost impossible to return to the safe position without shifting the firing grip. The checkering texture molded into the grip was also much to aggressive for my taste, similar to early HK USPs.


The Beretta presenter in the video seems alright keeping his trigger finger straight out of the trigger housing. Mag release would be a quick fix if they just fence it in. I'd definitely want to play with that multifunction bolt release to see what it takes to work. Safety is another thing I'd want to check out, but it doesn't look too bad position wise.
Gamma762  [Team Member]
2/3/2010 6:11:30 PM
Originally Posted By SilentType:
Originally Posted By Gamma762:

The Beretta presenter in the video seems alright keeping his trigger finger straight out of the trigger housing. Mag release would be a quick fix if they just fence it in. I'd definitely want to play with that multifunction bolt release to see what it takes to work. Safety is another thing I'd want to check out, but it doesn't look too bad position wise.

If the detent was lightened up a bit the safety would be ok... although the shape of the little protruding button would end up being a pain IMO. That and they need to move that sling point back, or up, or something to get it further away from the safety.

The presenter is ok with his trigger finger because he's only doing it for a few seconds at most Nothing that couldn't be fixed with some epoxy paste or hot glue but it would be better if they would just fix it in the mold
BallisticTip  [Team Member]
2/3/2010 6:13:23 PM
Looks good.
SilentType  [Team Member]
2/3/2010 6:24:42 PM
Originally Posted By MSARDave:
Originally Posted By BillofRights:

The Chris Farley looking dude doing the FN SCAR demo is not a good public speaker, At all. It was a good presentation, but very difficult to listen to. Uuummmm Aaahhhhh, Eeeemmmm, Eehhhhhh Worse than Obama without a teleprompter. How did he get the job?


That Beretta looks like a brilliant design. I love the way you can switch between left of right hand ejection so easily.



That guy got that job because he is a hell of a good guy, knows his product inside and out, and is a hell of a three gun competitor as well. When the guys with the video cameras come up to you at the shows, its not like they have an apointment and you have had any time to think about it. They are just there, right now, in your face with a camera. I don't mean to jump on anybody about that but the video cameras at SHOT were out of control this year.


Do video presentations/interviews only be appointment or by a scheduled time. Don't let them just show up and start filming...that's ridiculous, because there are dealers and distributors that aren't being attended to while you're doing a video.

The upside to the video folks is that people like me can watch it online and see new products so hopefully you get less general members of the public. Unfortunately, it looks like they're just allowing anyone off the street into SHOT. Couldn't believe the photos of guys walking around in Multicam like it's a gun show at the local fair ground.

People in the community really need to appreciate that SHOT is business time. The companies at SHOT really need to use their time to wheel and deal, make contacts, and so forth.

The poor Bushmaster guy must have given about 20 different video presentations on the ACR. I think that's pretty much all he did the whole show. Plus, I couldn't believe some folks were there asking for "deals" and freebies for their media websites. I mean WTF? That's just awkward.


cyclone  [Team Member]
2/3/2010 7:10:41 PM
I like the Beretta rifle as well...........might have to look into them if they become available
WesJanson  [Member]
2/3/2010 7:28:51 PM
It's definitely innovative, but I was really not impressed by the ergonomics or the design. Beretta seems to have a track record of building great-looking weapons that just weren't designed to be held and used by human hands.
Accomplice1  [Member]
2/3/2010 7:37:13 PM
My little Storm carbine was AK like in its reliability. If I was in the market, I would try this new Beretta rifle in a heartbeat if the MSRP was appropriate ($1,800ish).
SilentType  [Team Member]
2/3/2010 7:54:51 PM
Originally Posted By Accomplice1:
My little Storm carbine was AK like in its reliability. If I was in the market, I would try this new Beretta rifle in a heartbeat if the MSRP was appropriate ($1,800ish).


I think they could pull off a pretty good MSRP if they were inclined to do so. Give the ACR and SCAR a run for their money with law enforcement and civilians here.

BR870  [Team Member]
2/3/2010 8:33:41 PM

Originally Posted By airgunner:
Beretta ARX-160

Microsoft Security keeps detecting a severe exploit (HTML/IframeRef.gen) when I load that page.
Master_Blaster  [Member]
2/3/2010 11:26:30 PM
Originally Posted By JohnnyMcEldoo:
I really want one of those ARX's. Looks pretty light like the G36.

The guy did a fine job showcasing the SCAR. I dont want someone like john edwards trying to sell me something I want a real person.


The G36 isn't light.
CAsoldier  [Member]
2/4/2010 12:20:09 AM
i want one so bad, i played with the one at SHOT show, its so cool
MasterAtArms  [Member]
2/4/2010 12:32:48 AM
Id love to see this thing get here. Hopefully at a price a bit more reasonable than the SCAR and ACR
BulletBait  [Team Member]
2/4/2010 8:15:33 AM
Originally Posted By BR870:

Originally Posted By airgunner:
Beretta ARX-160

Microsoft Security keeps detecting a severe exploit (HTML/IframeRef.gen) when I load that page.


Use FireFox, IE is shitty and full of security holes.
BulletBait  [Team Member]
2/4/2010 8:57:52 AM
I like the fact that the CH and ejection are independent of each other.

I'm a lefty and I like RH ejection.
When I use bottom ejection shotguns, I end up wondering if it chucked the empty.


The 2 big questions about theis rifle are if it has a large steel trunnion, unlike the G36 and MSRP.


The wholesale price of the SCAR ain't going much lower. FN would have to explain why civilians pay less than the Gov.
Anyone know what Beretta is charging the IA?
Beretta won't be selling the ARX-160 to us for less than that.
SilentType  [Team Member]
2/4/2010 2:15:15 PM
From what I have read (on the internet so take it for what it is worth) Beretta has already signed contracts with the Albanian Army Special Forces, Venezuela, and Egypt. Apparently Mexico is also looking at the ARX160.

Beretta and the Italian government have invested 4 MILLION Euros ($5,538,800 USD) into R&D, about 70,000 man hours, and fired 500,000 rounds of ammunition during testing.

The first 1,600 ARX-160 rifles will be delivered in March of this year to the Italian Army.

One of the benefits of injection molding of polymer is the reduced time in production over machined CNC machined parts. Or so the theory is anyways...I don't work with either so maybe someone here can confirm or deny that? If they get more military contracts and sell on the U.S. civilian market where they can take orders from distributors they should be able to reduce the overall per rifle cost to the Italian Army and everyone else.

The ACR has ZERO military contracts that I am aware of right now. The FNH SCAR has its SOCOM contract, but I'm unaware of any contract FNH has won for the SCAR anywhere else. So Beretta should be able to beat both Remington and FNH on price pretty easily.


Frens  [Member]
2/4/2010 2:38:55 PM
a couple of pics
if you visit berettadefence.com you can find a nice PDF with all the rifle' features



BulletBait  [Team Member]
2/4/2010 2:48:50 PM
Originally Posted By SilentType:


One of the benefits of injection molding of polymer is the reduced time in production over machined CNC machined parts. Or so the theory is anyways...I don't work with either so maybe someone here can confirm or deny that?


How much cheaper are plastic bowls VS stamped stainless steel?
Ever seen a milled steel bowl?

Once the mold is made, a plastic part costs pennies to make.

Also, one of the tricks Robinson did to bring down the cost of the XCR was to use as much common tooling and cutting tools for shaping it.
It's the specialized tooling and cutters that drives production costs into the sky.
yekimak  [Team Member]
2/4/2010 2:58:12 PM
I thought it was ugly at first. It became beautiful after seeing the ACR's price tag.
Gamma762  [Team Member]
2/4/2010 3:08:02 PM
Another thought on the polymer outer shell is that since it's polymer, colors should be no problem
SilentType  [Team Member]
2/4/2010 3:10:25 PM
I'm not seeing anything on whether it has an adjustable gas system though.

I like a manually adjustable gas system ideally with a suppressor setting.
Gamma762  [Team Member]
2/4/2010 4:19:55 PM
Originally Posted By SilentType:
I'm not seeing anything on whether it has an adjustable gas system though.

I like a manually adjustable gas system ideally with a suppressor setting.

I didn't think to look for that, and they had a spare barrel assembly lying right there next to the rifle
mmsurber  [Member]
2/4/2010 6:31:16 PM
Would love an SBR one.
JohnnyMcEldoo  [Member]
2/4/2010 9:35:36 PM
Stamped steel is most likely the cheapest. A progressive die can spit rifle recievers out by the tens of seconds Iam guessing. The material cost is cheap as well.

I tried to call Beretta USA today to hound them but its hard to find someone. Anyone have a direct number to someone in sales?
TenMile  [Member]
2/4/2010 9:41:07 PM
Looks like everything that was promised with the ACR is being delivered in the 160. It is indeed a beautiful gun!
C-S  [Member]
2/4/2010 10:15:25 PM
...Because Switching Port ejection in mid magazine has always been an issue

I love Beretta Fire Arms... I'm a Certified Beretta Armorer... but Seriously... I'd still take an AR over that...
Foxnews_FTW  [Team Member]
2/5/2010 2:53:57 AM

Originally Posted By yekimak:
I thought it was ugly at first. It became beautiful after seeing the ACR's price tag.

So it's kinda like finding out the prom queen has crabs, and seeing the girl in the corner you've blown off for a while and thinking to yourself, "hey... know what... she's kinda hot! "
NorthernBornRebel  [Team Member]
2/5/2010 4:19:23 AM
I spoke with Beretta about getting a post sample for LE demos and the possibility of getting the semi autos here in the states. I was told they are more concerned with getting them in the hands of the Italian military right now and aren't really concerned with getting them into the states right now. The one on display at SHOT was the only one on US Soil. I don't know how accurate the comments I received were, however, I was told they are looking at an MSRP around $2500 but like I said, they aren't really worrying about the US consumer market at this point in time. I would expect it to be a wait time similar to that of the Masada/Ass Clown Rifle (ACR) if they ever get around to getting it out.

I do have to say that the ARX-160 was the highlight of my time at SHOT and I was VERY impressed with it. I looked at all of the other comparable rifles that are on the market, or going to be on the market (ACR, Steyr Aug, SCAR Etc.) and the only other rifle that really did it for me was the Micro XCR, but only because I have lusted after that rifle for a long time. The ARX was very innovative and Beretta REALLY seems to want to make their firearms comfortable to ALL shooters, right or left handed and the way they worked the ARX shows their attention to detail and their intention to simplify all of the inner workings of the rifle.

BTW, I just want to say I am in no way affiliated with Beretta, I was just VERY impressed with what they brought to the table.
snaggletooth1925  [Team Member]
2/5/2010 6:19:15 AM
Nice. I really like how easy it is to change the ejection side and the barrel swap
wganz  [Team Member]
2/5/2010 7:35:02 AM
Originally Posted By snaggletooth1925:
Nice. I really like how easy it is to change the ejection side and the barrel swap


Just a barrel swap away from an SBR.
That thing is really sweet.
ShamusMcOI  [Team Member]
2/5/2010 7:52:40 AM
looks pretty promising. too bad it'll be forever till we see one........if we ever see one.........
BR870  [Team Member]
2/5/2010 10:43:52 AM

Originally Posted By BulletBait:
Originally Posted By BR870:

Originally Posted By airgunner:
Beretta ARX-160

Microsoft Security keeps detecting a severe exploit (HTML/IframeRef.gen) when I load that page.


Use FireFox, IE is shitty and full of security holes.
I am using Firefox and with the Javascript blocker installed. Also have Microsoft Security Essentials, which is what detected the exploit coming from that page....