AR15.Com Archives
 XCR, best keep secret.....
M4-Daddy  [Member]
9/29/2008 5:20:01 PM
Why is it that there is hardly any press on the Robinson XCR? I have had MANY guns "both title I and title II" but few are as nice as the Robinson XCR, I would put my Colts, H&K's, etc. against it and it would still come out on top. When I weight price, reliability, clean shooting action, recoil, control, accuracy, mags, etc. my XCR is the poo, so why do I not see this in more gun press or more talk about this gun in forums? Hell I wish I could get one of these guns in Full Auto!
Paid Advertisement
--
AKD  [Member]
9/29/2008 6:19:55 PM
I'd really love to get an XCR and I'd want it for use and to rely on, but I'm always hesitant because of the thought of the company going tits up or just not supporting their product and I end up with a gun I can't rely on long term.
aimpointed  [Member]
9/29/2008 6:27:16 PM

Originally Posted By M4-Daddy:
Why is it that there is hardly any press on the Robinson XCR? I have had MANY guns "both title I and title II" but few are as nice as the Robinson XCR, I would put my Colts, H&K's, etc. against it and it would still come out on top. When I weight price, reliability, clean shooting action, recoil, control, accuracy, mags, etc. my XCR is the poo, so why do I not see this in more gun press or more talk about this gun in forums? Hell I wish I could get one of these guns in Full Auto!


The XCR has at least 6 wright up in gun rags. It has a solid following on this forum as well. I am very happy with my XCR.

xcrforum.com is where most XCR owners seem to hang out these days.
MadDogDan  [Member]
9/29/2008 7:48:50 PM
AKD:

Even though the XCR has only been out for about 4 years now, Robinson Armament has been around for quite a while. I love my XCR and use it more than any of my AR's maybe with the exception of my 6.8 SPC that I just finished. If RobArms ever did go tits-up I would most certainly be able to sell it to someone thinking it is a collectable.

MadDog



SilentType  [Member]
9/29/2008 7:52:10 PM
The XCR has had pretty good press I think.

Very fine rifle and if I was looking to purchase a rifle right today it would be the XCR.
tenchu74  [Member]
9/29/2008 8:05:37 PM
I love mine. I don't think they'll go out of buisness, they seem to sell all they make and my friends who have tried to get one find that there is a wait when they try to order one.
stevemc  [Team Member]
9/29/2008 10:00:51 PM
My XCR has quickly taken over as my most fun gun to shoot and have. I had planned on buying a "AUG", but the XCR has almost made that plan go away.

Yesterday I went an shot my XCR to get my Eotech sighted in and first shot at 178 yards with a Eotech 512 killed a water filled milk jug.....

I let a buddy of mine shoot it, and now he wants one too. The only thing keeping him from getting one is the $1,400+ price.
HiramRanger  [Life Member]
9/29/2008 11:33:50 PM
Took mine to my friend's shop tonight and all the folks in the shop started drooling over it and wanted to know where they could get one.
Tec_Nine  [Member]
9/29/2008 11:49:37 PM
Yeah, I think it's price that keeps the XCR fan base smaller too. At well over $1000, it puts the rifle in another league compared to the AR/Sig/HK clone. I'm not saying it doesn't deserve to be in another league based on performance, but IMHO it's price that keeps this a niche rifle compared to the lower-priced, black .223's.

I don't think you'll find many owners who don't have multiple ARs already, which furthers my classification as a niche gun. Gun mags know that, so you see much more coverage of the Sig, because their readers can identify with that possible purchase.

take care,
Tec
HiramRanger  [Life Member]
9/29/2008 11:51:02 PM

Originally Posted By Tec_Nine:
Yeah, I think it's price that keeps the XCR fan base smaller too. At well over $1000, it puts the rifle in another league compared to the AR/Sig/HK clone. I'm not saying it doesn't deserve to be in another league based on performance, but IMHO it's price that keeps this a niche rifle compared to the lower-priced, black .223's.

I don't think you'll find many owners who don't have multiple ARs already, which furthers my classification as a niche gun. Gun mags know that, so you see much more coverage of the Sig, because their readers can identify with that possible purchase.

take care,
Tec


A gas piston upper costs a $1,000 or more... compare apples to apples please.
MadDogDan  [Member]
9/30/2008 12:13:33 AM
Tec_Nine:

I don't know about the East Cost but here in the West the SIG556 costs MORE then an XCR. Based on my findings your Piston AR/SIG/HK theory doesn't hold water.

MadDog
mubah  [Member]
9/30/2008 7:51:25 AM

Originally Posted By M4-Daddy:
Why is it that there is hardly any press on the Robinson XCR? I have had MANY guns "both title I and title II" but few are as nice as the Robinson XCR, I would put my Colts, H&K's, etc. against it and it would still come out on top. When I weight price, reliability, clean shooting action, recoil, control, accuracy, mags, etc. my XCR is the poo, so why do I not see this in more gun press or more talk about this gun in forums? Hell I wish I could get one of these guns in Full Auto!


I have asked and wondered the same thing. I have wondered if it is not a popularity thing. Since it doesn't say 'Bushmaster' or 'Armalite' it may get passed over as an unknown. The more cases than not, the ignorant AR crowd wants a 'cool' safe queen. They are interested in the look more than function, as 90% don't shoot their ARs anyways.

I agree with the fella that says its 'too' expensive. The reason, the Wal-Mart mentality. They think 'why buy a xcr when I can get a Bushmaster for 500 less'? It is ussually more expensive to buy cheaper junk than to go out and buy something to last.
pippin  [Member]
9/30/2008 11:13:46 AM
I think part of it is that Robinson Arms is a relatively small company, with not much of an advertising budget. A lot of people are reluctant to buy a .223 semi auto gun that cost $500 more than an AR15 and is made by a company they've never heard of - despite the many obvious advantages the XCR has over a traditional AR.

I do think that if this gun said Colt or Bushmaster on the side, instead of Robinson Arms, it would be a much bigger seller.
JJREA  [Member]
9/30/2008 12:04:23 PM
Now, this isn't a skeptical question, it is educational, but what does it do that an AR doesn't? It's probably a little heavier for like set ups, no? I don't have anything against DI, nor do I have anything against pistons. But, you guys seem to be claiming alot when it is not battle proven and what not. I'm not bashing, I'm curious. I'm kind of interested in other platforms and sometimes the Pro AR crowd gets to me too. The infallability of it, the apparent lack of ability of any other platform that gets touted around here does get a little old. Mind you not everyone does that.
M4-Daddy  [Member]
9/30/2008 3:28:04 PM
I don't see the cost argument.

Colt 6920 $1295.00+
AUG A3 "if released" $2200.00+
AUG $2700.00+
STG 556 $1700.00+
Sig Commando $1700.00+
Sig 556 $1300.00+
H&K Clone $1400.00+

When you figure in the rail system "if the gun came without it" you are looking at another $300-600 bones, a Sig with a rail runs around $1700.00+!
I guess it is the fact that the company who produces the weapon is small and has bailed on customer service/support on weapons of previous designs in the past might make people weary. I have never needed customer support other than to upgrade my gas block, I'll let you all know how it goes but I expect there to be no problems. I must admit that I was a little let down that I had to pay for the improved adj. gas block but I still bought it none the less. BTW the old gas block works just fine , it was just not quickly adjustable with out tools and I intend to run a suppressor on it, hell I may even SBR the thing!
slanted  [Member]
9/30/2008 8:03:38 PM
I think if you compare the XCR to a monolithic piston AR you'll find it is priced very well.

LWRC M6A2 $2,000... not monolithic

Noveske 16.1" Recon 5.56mm Rifle with VIS $2400

XCR's with BUIS and a folding stock start around $1700 retail, but probably can be found for around $1,500


All that being said, we're still looking a the top end of the market when you consider basic ARs are $700 at gun shows.

If you find yourself looking around the top of the market, do yourself a favor and consider the XCR.



kevinb120  [Member]
9/30/2008 8:31:01 PM
I think its the lack of advertising and that the AR crowd has become focused on the ACR as the next 'break-from-the-ar-mold' gun to get. I'm thinking about an XCR in 7.62, but will maybe pick up a PTR91 first though because the price keeps friggin going up.

I figure the PTR91 before the end of this year, and if the ACR looks to take too long or it's not the bees-knees it looks to be, then XCR for my tax-return toy.
Reverend_Deadboy  [Member]
9/30/2008 9:16:45 PM
1. The Bushmaster ACR is coming out. For folks looking for a modular piston design that rifle is of extreme interest.

2. Stupid bastard backed Romney. Seriously. As a voting constituency, gun owners are the most rabid single issue voters out there. We just don't bomb clinics due to the bad press.

3. Some of us remember the M96.

4. Robarms has also done a few other crazy things. Like the industry buzz about a tantrum during the SCAR trials due to lack of a blank firing device.

5. No sizzle, take a great company like MGI that makes a great product. If you can't get it to sizzle and get the attention of lots of silly people with money, you won't sell many.

If HK made this thing and sold it to civvies, they could (and would) ask 2k per and get it. People would rave about it and other people would make fun of it and cling tighter to their DI Colts.

I love guns but laugh daily at how silly the industry is.
slanted  [Member]
9/30/2008 9:29:44 PM
I've got the PTR91 and an XCR in 7.62x39.

Hard to compare the two really. The XCR is going to win a feature battle since it is a modern design borrowing features from past rifles, but the PTR is a solid 308 rifle. If you plan to shoot a lot then just know the 308 will cost you and you won't be reloading after the PTR is done with the cases.

I like your no compromise approach... get both!
aimpointed  [Member]
9/30/2008 11:42:15 PM
My XCR.



Cool looking SBR that is giving me inspiration

innocent_bystander  [Team Member]
10/1/2008 12:00:33 AM
There was a guy with a new one in the last carbine class I attended earlier this year. The rifle was new, he had just purchased it.

Something in the fire control group broke on the second day. He switched to an M96 to finish the class.
kevinb120  [Member]
10/1/2008 12:02:24 AM

Originally Posted By slanted:
I've got the PTR91 and an XCR in 7.62x39.

Hard to compare the two really. The XCR is going to win a feature battle since it is a modern design borrowing features from past rifles, but the PTR is a solid 308 rifle. If you plan to shoot a lot then just know the 308 will cost you and you won't be reloading after the PTR is done with the cases.

I like your no compromise approach... get both!


I kinda want one good example of a rifle several different popular combat calibers I probably wouldn't break out the 308 except on special occasions, and just mainly shoot the 556 and 7.62 and stock up on ammo when the prices are good. I'm on the fence between the XCR and ACR as stated before as my hi-tech gun other then my AR. I wanted an AK but now am stuck on the PTR as my 'brutish' basic battle rifle as the AK's I was looking at are the higher $$ ones anyway. But I also want a good M14(like there's a bad one) down the line too and that should probably do it for combat weapons for me for a bit. Figured it would be a good mix of stuff to play with. The idea is that I get 5 or so rifles that are hard to compare to each other
pippin  [Member]
10/1/2008 11:30:49 AM
Well JJ to try to answer your question - unlike the AR, the XCR:

(i) comes with a folding stock

(ii) has a barrel you can change in about 1 minute

(iii) can be converted to a couple of different calibers in about two minutes

(iv) has ambi bolt release

(v) has a left side charging handle that some people like and find ergonomic

(vi) has an adjustable gas system and is not direct impingement (some people feel that this helps the gun run cleaner and enhances reliability)

(vii) is a little bit easier to field strip and clean

(viii) IMHO has slightly less recoil and faster follow up shots

I've probably left a couple of things out, but off the top of my head those are some of the differences I can think of. Of course it's possible that none of these features are important to you - in which case there's nothing wrong with getting a standard AR. In fact, a lot of XCR owners also own one or more AR's. It's just that after we get the XCR they don't seem to get much range time.
AKD  [Member]
10/1/2008 12:21:14 PM
So are 1/7 5.56mm barrels a near-term thing? If I could get an SBR with a 12" 1/7 barrel, I might take the plunge now.
M38  [Team Member]
10/1/2008 12:38:16 PM
This years deer rifle. 6.8 SPC XCR
Gr8Santini  [Member]
10/1/2008 7:29:52 PM
Some XCR's:








kevinb120  [Member]
10/1/2008 8:19:00 PM
wow, great looking rifles guys, keep the pics coming!
Gr8Santini  [Member]
10/1/2008 9:16:57 PM

Originally Posted By kevinb120:
wow, great looking rifles guys, keep the pics coming!

OK




Mr_Staypuft  [Member]
10/2/2008 10:16:53 AM
Gr8Santini,

Who did that fluting? Because, I didn't think Robarms offered fluted barrels.

By the way, nice rifles!
GillTX06  [Member]
10/2/2008 10:25:32 AM

Originally Posted By Mr_Staypuft:
Gr8Santini,
Who did that fluting? Because, I didn't think Robarms offered fluted barrels.
By the way, nice rifles!


I believe he can ADCO cut the barrel to 14.5" and flute it.



B.
pippin  [Member]
10/2/2008 10:26:39 AM
+1. Those fluted barrels look great. Were you able to get them from RA? Also, how do they shoot? Do they have the same 1/9 twist as standard RA barrel?
Gr8Santini  [Member]
10/2/2008 10:26:44 AM

Originally Posted By GillTX06:

Originally Posted By Mr_Staypuft:
Gr8Santini,
Who did that fluting? Because, I didn't think Robarms offered fluted barrels.
By the way, nice rifles!


I believe he can ADCO cut the barrel to 14.5" and flute it.



B.


Correct. ADCO does nice work.
Gr8Santini  [Member]
10/2/2008 9:07:30 PM

Originally Posted By pippin:
+1. Those fluted barrels look great. Were you able to get them from RA? Also, how do they shoot? Do they have the same 1/9 twist as standard RA barrel?


They're standard RA barrels fluted by ADCO. They shoot great, even after getting hot.
Reverend_Deadboy  [Member]
10/2/2008 9:26:45 PM
Those are some beautiful guns guys!
Gr8Santini  [Member]
10/2/2008 11:03:58 PM
wickedwicked  [Member]
10/3/2008 4:01:34 AM
Wonder why they don't offer 1/7 twist.
themagikbullet  [Team Member]
10/3/2008 4:28:30 AM
I wouldn't call the xcr a secret by any means, but there are certainly lots of black rifle folks who still aren't aware of it.

I love mine.

polik6887  [Member]
10/3/2008 1:58:11 PM

Originally Posted By Gr8Santini:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v116/bearded_l/pinkgun4.jpg?t=1221583070


that has got to be the coolest thing I have ever seen
themagikbullet  [Team Member]
10/3/2008 7:35:19 PM

Originally Posted By polik6887:

Originally Posted By Gr8Santini:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v116/bearded_l/pinkgun4.jpg?t=1221583070


that has got to be the coolest thing I have ever seen


I've told gr8santini before, that's by far the best execution of a 'pink gun' I've ever seen

should also mention that rifle is terra's.
M4-Daddy  [Member]
10/3/2008 8:01:38 PM
The man does seem very skilled with paint!
Gr8Santini  [Member]
10/4/2008 2:03:43 AM
Yep, the rifle is Terra's, and I was very lucky to get to Dura Coat it. It's so easy to do that I can't claim any talent. It really is simple.
JIM762  [Member]
10/4/2008 9:34:13 AM
How are the XCR 12.5" SBRs? I've heard of folks having functioning issues with this one, even with the adjustable gas system.
aimpointed  [Member]
10/4/2008 3:19:59 PM

Originally Posted By JIM762:
How are the XCR 12.5" SBRs? I've heard of folks having functioning issues with this one, even with the adjustable gas system.


No issues with the 12.5". People who have barrels cut down to 11" have needed to open up the gas port though
MadDogDan  [Member]
10/4/2008 4:21:36 PM
I ordered my 11" light profile bbl. directly from Robinson and have had absolutely no problems. I run the gas setting on 2 for the hot stuff and 3 for Wolf. The gas port may be bigger but if it is, it came that way from the factory.

MadDog

Martens  [Member]
10/4/2008 6:10:11 PM
Here's one of my XCR in SPR mode:



and one in entry mode:



It takes about 30 seconds to switch from one to the other. In over a couple of months, and numerous barrel swaps, no change of zero with either setup.

The SPR uses a 16 inch heavy barrel and he entry uses a 14.5 light (would love a 12 inch barrel someday).
M4-Daddy  [Member]
10/4/2008 10:19:26 PM
What kind of groups are you getting?
Skillshot  [Team Member]
10/4/2008 11:32:11 PM
I'd seriously consider one, but I'll need to shoot it first to observe how the sights track. I'd like to also shoot one with the Primary brake like Martens has.
Martens  [Member]
10/5/2008 12:37:47 AM
Unfortunately all I have shot to this point is wolf. That said I can pass sniper quals with wolf, so it can't be that bad. When I really shoot for groups I will get 3 out of 5 into .75 to 1 inch at 100 yards with two usually touching. I don't know if the other two being a little farther out is due to the wolf or the slightly heavy trigger. Five shot groups usually are in the 1.5 MOA range.

The last time I shot it with the heavy barrel I went 10 for 10 at 250 yards on a 6 x 6 steel plate with wolf. Not great in terms of MOA group size, but I'll take it as far as practical accuracy goes.

The PWS brake with the adjustable gas system makes the thing real sweet. I find that it recoils less and has less muzzle rise than my HK94 clone. Everyone I let shoot the rifle seems to think it recoils on par with a .22 or slightly more. They all leave smiling and comment on how soft and smooth it is. I usually run the gas system on 1 and 2 when it gets past 300 rounds.

I've been real pleased with the return to zero of the barrels to this point. Within the limits of the wolf ammo I haven't found a change. I want to find some .223 match one of these days, especially after I get the new RA match trigger (due out by Christmas hopefully) and see what it will do.

I have shot Hornday TAP and Federal 55 grain and they both group the same as the wolf for me. The great thing is they all shoot to the point of aim.
Martens  [Member]
10/5/2008 12:39:05 AM
Unfortunately all I have shot to this point is wolf. That said I can pass sniper quals with wolf, so it can't be that bad. When I really shoot for groups I will get 3 out of 5 into .75 to 1 inch at 100 yards with two usually touching. I don't know if the other two being a little farther out is due to the wolf or the slightly heavy trigger. Five shot groups usually are in the 1.5 MOA range.

The last time I shot it with the heavy barrel I went 10 for 10 at 250 yards on a 6 x 6 steel plate with wolf. Not great in terms of MOA group size, but I'll take it as far as practical accuracy goes.

The PWS brake with the adjustable gas system makes the thing real sweet. I find that it recoils less and has less muzzle rise than my HK94 clone. Everyone I let shoot the rifle seems to think it recoils on par with a .22 or slightly more. They all leave smiling and comment on how soft and smooth it is. I usually run the gas system on 1 and 2 when it gets past 300 rounds.

I've been real pleased with the return to zero of the barrels to this point. Within the limits of the wolf ammo I haven't found a change. I want to find some .223 match one of these days, especially after I get the new RA match trigger (due out by Christmas hopefully) and see what it will do.

I have shot Hornday TAP and Federal 55 grain and they both group the same as the wolf for me. The great thing is they all shoot to the point of aim.

Skillshot can you explain more on wanting to see how the sights track? Maybe someone can answer that for you, but I don't know you are asking.
MadDogDan  [Member]
10/5/2008 10:29:26 AM
M4-Daddy:

Here are the groups I am getting at 50 and 100 yards with a 16" light profile barrel and an AAC Ranger Suppressor. I was using Remington UMC 55gr. FMJ. For my use it doesn't get much better than this.

MadDog

ETA: The XCR I used is the SBR pictured above just with a different barrel but with the same optics.



Gr8Santini  [Member]
10/7/2008 12:12:08 AM
More "stolen" pics of Terra's XCR:



Paid Advertisement
--