AR15.Com Archives
 Fatal accident at machine gun shoot?
technocia  [Member]
7/23/2008 4:49:21 AM
Has that ever happened before in events like Knob Creek? I seem to recall reading something a while ago about a little girl getting killed when her dad's MG somehow broke off the tripod, but Google doesn't show anything.
2ridgebacks  [Team Member]
7/23/2008 5:02:24 AM
A mini gun turned over several years ago and crushed her. yes, it does happen.
osprey21  [Life Member]
7/23/2008 5:35:58 AM
That sad event happened during the 1995 Fall KCR shoot. The girl killed was Rachel Bigley age 13. She was firing Neil Smith's (her fathers friend) triple Miniguns when all of the sudden guns shifted hard making the entire setup stand up and fall over backwards. The corner of the mount struck her in the forehead killing her instantly.

That ended up shutting the range down for the rest of the day but at the request of her father the shoot was to continue the next day, saying "Rachel would have wanted it that way".

Shortly after the accident Neil sold off the guns.





drunkintoaster  [Member]
7/23/2008 8:49:13 AM

Originally Posted By osprey21:
That sad event happened during the 1995 Fall KCR shoot. The girl killed was Rachel Bigley age 13. She was firing Neil Smith's (her fathers friend) triple Miniguns when all of the sudden guns shifted hard making the entire setup stand up and fall over backwards. The corner of the mount struck her in the forehead killing her instantly.

That ended up shutting the range down for the rest of the day but at the request of her father the shoot was to continue the next day, saying "Rachel would have wanted it that way".

Shortly after the accident Neil sold off the guns.

i37.tinypic.com/2w7h079.jpg





that is a damn shame atleast it happend quickly
Slug-O  [Team Member]
7/23/2008 9:34:27 AM
don't forget the cop that was killed when he rotated the minigun barrel while looking down to see if it was unloaded....1 round to the head... game over!!!
The_Beer_Slayer  [Site Staff]
7/23/2008 9:57:45 AM
machinegunners have a dangerous hobby, that is exactly whay ranges during such events are run so tight.

one small mistake can kill multiple people.

these weapons are fun but they are also VERY good at what they are designed to do..... kill people.
Rocksarge  [Team Member]
7/23/2008 10:01:02 AM
even following the rules can get you killed
Slug-O  [Team Member]
7/23/2008 10:01:26 AM

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
machinegunners have a dangerous hobby, that is exactly whay ranges during such events are run so tight.

one small mistake can kill multiple people.

these weapons are fun but they are also VERY good at what they are designed to do..... kill people.


careful how you use those last two words.......that antis love to use them against us!!!
The_Beer_Slayer  [Site Staff]
7/23/2008 10:22:39 AM

Originally Posted By Slug-O:

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
machinegunners have a dangerous hobby, that is exactly whay ranges during such events are run so tight.

one small mistake can kill multiple people.

these weapons are fun but they are also VERY good at what they are designed to do..... kill people.


careful how you use those last two words.......that antis love to use them against us!!!


sometimes the truth is the truth. these guns were designed specifically for warfare. they also should be allowed for use and ownership by civillians, how else will the unorganised militia know how to use them in the absence of the standing army
The_Beer_Slayer  [Site Staff]
7/23/2008 10:26:09 AM
one of the scaryiest moments i have ever had was at the camden MG shoot a couple of years ago.

12 yr old girl went running down the left range marker, i tackled her about 20 yards downrange. she was just on the left of the range marker and her parents didn't understand why i brought the shoot to a halt and they couldn't allow a 12yr old to run free on a live range while they were shooting.
imq707s  [Member]
7/23/2008 10:29:32 AM

Originally Posted By Slug-O:

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
machinegunners have a dangerous hobby, that is exactly whay ranges during such events are run so tight.

one small mistake can kill multiple people.

these weapons are fun but they are also VERY good at what they are designed to do..... kill people.


careful how you use those last two words.......that antis love to use them against us!!!


Well they sure as hell weren't designed for target shooting or hunting.....
SpacemanSpiff  [Member]
7/23/2008 10:54:27 AM

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
one of the scaryiest moments i have ever had was at the camden MG shoot a couple of years ago.

12 yr old girl went running down the left range marker, i tackled her about 20 yards downrange. she was just on the left of the range marker and her parents didn't understand why i brought the shoot to a halt and they couldn't allow a 12yr old to run free on a live range while they were shooting.


you cheated Darwin.
The_Beer_Slayer  [Site Staff]
7/23/2008 11:14:52 AM

Originally Posted By SpacemanSpiff:

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
one of the scaryiest moments i have ever had was at the camden MG shoot a couple of years ago.

12 yr old girl went running down the left range marker, i tackled her about 20 yards downrange. she was just on the left of the range marker and her parents didn't understand why i brought the shoot to a halt and they couldn't allow a 12yr old to run free on a live range while they were shooting.


you cheated Darwin.


i tell you there is NOTHING like hearing incoming 50 rounds whizzing by you as you are running down range and lying on top of a kid until the fire stops. thats the mother of all adrenalin dumps.
Postal0311  [Life Member]
7/23/2008 12:05:00 PM

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
machinegunners have a dangerous hobby, that is exactly whay ranges during such events are run so tight.

one small mistake can kill multiple people.

these weapons are fun but they are also VERY good at what they are designed to do..... kill people.


I disagree, the guns are generally rather safe. Its the people using them.

Not all MG owners are gun people. Some of them are doctors, lawyers, and people who make alot of money, and only shoot once or twice a year. They go to shoots to show off their toys and make alot of noise. Often at the ones I go to, people don't aim, or pay attention to where their shots are going too. Some of this is due to lack of knowledge, others just dont care and are not the safest shooters. Some will hand an MG to someone who has never shot a gun before, and never notice that the end of his bursts are going over the berm. That's why almost all the RSOs I know hate doing MG shoots. Joe Fudd firing 50 rounds though his 30-06 is not the same as Dr. Careless shooting 10,000 though his his new M60.

Those people fortunately are the exception to the rule. Most people know what they are doing, are safe shooters. Its people like them that make the MG shoots great.

A machinegun is no deadlier then any other gun. It all comes down to who ever is handling it.
The_Beer_Slayer  [Site Staff]
7/23/2008 12:10:03 PM

Originally Posted By Postal0311:

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
machinegunners have a dangerous hobby, that is exactly whay ranges during such events are run so tight.

one small mistake can kill multiple people.

these weapons are fun but they are also VERY good at what they are designed to do..... kill people.


I disagree, the guns are generally rather safe. Its the people using them.

Not all MG owners are gun people. Some of them are doctors, lawyers, and people who make alot of money, and only shoot once or twice a year. They go to shoots to show off their toys and make alot of noise. Often at the ones I go to, people don't aim, or pay attention to where their shots are going too. Some of this is due to lack of knowledge, others just dont care and are not the safest shooters. Some will hand an MG to someone who has never shot a gun before, and never notice that the end of his bursts are going over the berm. That's why almost all the RSOs I know hate doing MG shoots. Joe Fudd firing 50 rounds though his 30-06 is not the same as Dr. Careless shooting 10,000 though his his new M60.

Those people fortunately are the exception to the rule. Most people know what they are doing, are safe shooters. Its people like them that make the MG shoots great.

A machinegun is no deadlier then any other gun. It all comes down to who ever is handling it.


i have rso'd many many many MG shoots around the SE. i agree with most of what you said with one exception. a MG IS inherently more dangerous than a regular gun in general.

an idiot with a semi or bolt gun typically discharges 1 maybe 2 rounds on a fuckup. and uzi may dump 10-20. even normally safe shooter screwup at times. that is why extra precuations are generally in effect during MG shoots VS regular shoots.
Uberjager  [Member]
7/23/2008 2:09:53 PM

Originally Posted By imq707s:

Originally Posted By Slug-O:

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
machinegunners have a dangerous hobby, that is exactly whay ranges during such events are run so tight.

one small mistake can kill multiple people.

these weapons are fun but they are also VERY good at what they are designed to do..... kill people.


careful how you use those last two words.......that antis love to use them against us!!!


Well they sure as hell weren't designed for target shooting or hunting.....

Pfff.... They too were designed for hunting. They were designed to hunt humans.
machinisttx  [Team Member]
7/23/2008 2:40:24 PM

Originally Posted By SpacemanSpiff:

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
one of the scaryiest moments i have ever had was at the camden MG shoot a couple of years ago.

12 yr old girl went running down the left range marker, i tackled her about 20 yards downrange. she was just on the left of the range marker and her parents didn't understand why i brought the shoot to a halt and they couldn't allow a 12yr old to run free on a live range while they were shooting.


you cheated Darwin.


I agree. Someone as stupid as that kid and the parents should not be allowed to continue using oxygen.
JBlitzen  [Team Member]
7/23/2008 7:29:36 PM

Originally Posted By machinisttx:

Originally Posted By SpacemanSpiff:

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
one of the scaryiest moments i have ever had was at the camden MG shoot a couple of years ago.

12 yr old girl went running down the left range marker, i tackled her about 20 yards downrange. she was just on the left of the range marker and her parents didn't understand why i brought the shoot to a halt and they couldn't allow a 12yr old to run free on a live range while they were shooting.


you cheated Darwin.


I agree. Someone as stupid as that kid and the parents should not be allowed to continue using oxygen.


It's not a child's fault when it's parents allow it to do something very dangerous. Children don't know about danger.
LARRYG  [Team Member]
7/23/2008 7:44:49 PM

Originally Posted By JBlitzen:

Originally Posted By machinisttx:

Originally Posted By SpacemanSpiff:

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
one of the scaryiest moments i have ever had was at the camden MG shoot a couple of years ago.

12 yr old girl went running down the left range marker, i tackled her about 20 yards downrange. she was just on the left of the range marker and her parents didn't understand why i brought the shoot to a halt and they couldn't allow a 12yr old to run free on a live range while they were shooting.


you cheated Darwin.


I agree. Someone as stupid as that kid and the parents should not be allowed to continue using oxygen.


It's not a child's fault when it's parents allow it to do something very dangerous. Children don't know about danger.


I agree. It was a 12 year old. Children don't understand these things.
unclemoak  [Team Member]
7/23/2008 8:00:18 PM

Originally Posted By Slug-O:
don't forget the cop that was killed when he rotated the minigun barrel while looking down to see if it was unloaded....1 round to the head... game over!!!


This was pretty recent, within the last year or so. Another reason you don't toy with guns that you don't understand how they operate.
Artifex  [Team Member]
7/23/2008 8:08:53 PM
I remember some idiot at Camp Perry back in 1990-something that decided to ride his bicycle down to the pits on the Viale range during a prep period. The range officer called "cease fire" to get everyone to safe their weapons and you could hear him on the PA system in the pits "Someone tackle that dumba$$ and smack his head when he gets down there!"

Safety rules are there for a reason, we don't often hear about them when they work, we hear more about them when people break them. The rules don't fail, so much as people fail to follow them.

That is pretty damn unfortunate about the young girl with the Miniguns...

SilentType  [Member]
7/23/2008 8:47:36 PM
The mount obviously wasn't well engineered to accept the weight of the three mini-guns. This isn't something that can be blamed on the firearms since they operated as they were suppose to.

A machinegun like any firearm, powertool, car, plane, or any device created by man has the potential to result in an unintended death if it is handled recklessly, not properly maintained, or used in a manner outside of how it was intended/designed to be used.

I don't think that machineguns are any more dangerous or less dangerous than any other firearm. The same basic rules of firearms safety apply to the machinegun as apply to a .22 LR bolt action. Both are more than capable of killing you if mishandled.





miah556  [Member]
7/24/2008 1:31:38 AM
3 miniguns mounted on a single tripod is stupid and a accident waiting to happen. the owner of that should of had a basic knowledge of physics. and the father to have enough sense to think,... "would it be smart to let a 13 y/o, 80 pound k00b fire this at 9,000 rounds per min.?"
motorcityman  [Member]
7/24/2008 1:56:24 AM

Originally Posted By osprey21:
That sad event happened during the 1995 Fall KCR shoot. The girl killed was Rachel Bigley age 13. She was firing Neil Smith's (her fathers friend) triple Miniguns when all of the sudden guns shifted hard making the entire setup stand up and fall over backwards. The corner of the mount struck her in the forehead killing her instantly.

That ended up shutting the range down for the rest of the day but at the request of her father the shoot was to continue the next day, saying "Rachel would have wanted it that way".

Shortly after the accident Neil sold off the guns.

i37.tinypic.com/2w7h079.jpg





I was standing less than 25 feet away when it happened, by the time I got up (I hit the deck, and got trampled on) they had a piece of carpet over her. I have pictures of her minutes before her death. It was a sad day forsure. On a brighter note though that set up was amazing and the roar them guns made was unbelivable. McM
M4-Daddy  [Member]
7/24/2008 9:14:14 PM
I missed Knob Creek that year and I am glad I did.
va_gunz  [Team Member]
7/24/2008 10:12:34 PM
I worked the firing line at the fort morgan mg shoot and the cheyanne wells shoot here in colorado this year. We ran a very tight ship and the only injury we had was a peice of a bowling bal cannon break and hit someone.
SevenSixTwoxFiftyOne  [Member]
7/24/2008 11:01:16 PM
guns dont kill people , people kill people a gun, any gun semi auto ,full auto, bolt action, single action , is a tool it is inert and harmless until touched by human hands it cant load itself it cant aim itself it cant pull its own trigger it takes human interation to make it work , they are tools they perform the job they are intended for ,neglect to follow the saftey rules and serious injurys and or deaths can be the results of that neglect ,what happened was very tragic but it could have been prevented