AR15.Com Archives
 Quick Acquisition Holographic Sights
Werew  [Member]
12/21/2002 5:52:33 AM
I'm trying to decide on which to get of the following:
1. Bushnell Holosight
2. C-more
3. Eotech

It will be mounted on a flattop upper, along with the flat top rear sights by DPMS.

Ultimately, i'd like the rear and front sights to work together with 1 of the forementioned "holo" sights. "witness sight" i believe is the terminology used.

I don't necessarily want the rear sight to be part of the holo sight, due to 3-gun matches... some stages don't allow any optics.

Also... does anyone know where I can get a good deal on "the best" of these 3??? The C-more so far has been a favorite of mine by looks and features only.

Thanks!!! Input is appreciated
gardenWeasel  [Team Member]
12/21/2002 12:20:19 PM
www.rushusa.com/html/products/eotech.html

This place has three versions of the new Holo-sight.

W-W  [Team Member]
12/21/2002 12:21:49 PM
EoTech all the way!

I sold my Aimpoint for it, not 1 minute of regret,
shotar  [Team Member]
12/21/2002 1:44:11 PM
I have the OKO. Works great very light weight. No complaints, and the price was right.
Sharkman  [Team Member]
12/21/2002 5:51:08 PM
EOTech. I like it the best out of the Aimpoint, C-More, and EOTech. And yes, I have all three and have shot them all.
SuperChicken  [Team Member]
12/21/2002 6:43:08 PM
why do you guys think the EoTech is better than Aimpoint? Im about to get a Bushy A3 and plan to put one of those 2 on it.
Switchback  [Member]
12/21/2002 8:07:19 PM
I have both the Aimpoint and the EoTech. The aimpoint still feels like you are looking through a tube, making the EoTech much easier to shoot when wearing a mask.

The EoTech takes AA batteries! Though the Aimpoint has a far superior battery life, the convenience of AA is HUGE!!! I'm LE not military... if I need more I'll go to the store and buy them. I always keep 1 set of spares.

You need not buy mounts for the EoTech if you have an A3. It'll go directly on the flattop, keeping a lower sight axis relative to the bore (need to hold off less when making shots up close).

The_Beer_Slayer  [Team Member]
12/21/2002 8:29:37 PM
i have a bushnell<eotech without the steel cage> and prefer it. I shot the aimpoint, oko, cmore and a few others before buying mine. The base eotech does not take aa's unless you special order it that way. I all hoesty it is one tough little bastard. The steel cage is a plus but not needed unless you really plan to abuse the hell out of it.

mike
Ghost556  [Member]
12/21/2002 8:38:39 PM
Have had my Aimpoint years longer than my EO Tech, but think the EO Tech is 'faster'. Agree with Switchback, believe I'm looking thru a tube with the Aimpoint whereas the 'heads-up' display doesn't have that perception. For me, it's alot easier to still maintain a large field of view from the gun forward with the heads-up display. That may be 'scope conditionning' thru the Aimpoint as well on my part.
Might be interesting as to whether the 'tube' perception is because I'm used to scopes['tubes' that you look thru] or whether a new shooter wouldn't have that same perception despite outward envelope shape. Both share the no parellax, unlimited eye-relief features that greatly assist fast 'on-target' capability.
Even getting the Aimpoint first was partly ingrained prejudice since it looked more conventional. Point is, I'm not sure 'what' a new shooter's sight image might be.
Actually trying them out on the range on identical guns would be optimum for a perspective purchaser of course. Ghost
Werew  [Member]
12/22/2002 12:51:54 AM
Thanks for the input.
What i'm really after moreso than anything is durability. I've experienced the difference of economical glass vs. quality glass(scopes) in the past, and don't care to wander down the "economical" path again. When it comes to scopes, it's Zeiss, Springfield or Weaver for me in that order, also depending how much cabbage I have to drop at the time.

The co-witness capabilities come in second in importance to me.

I know this is just heresay since i've never used any of these holographic quick acquisition sights, but the C-more looks more compact and "down to business-like". It also resembles the ATN "holo" sight, which i've heard glitches on and off due to recoil(sometimes they dont glitch back on at all).

Sounds like Eotech is the way to go tho!!!
David_Hineline  [Team Member]
12/22/2002 1:50:20 AM
I can highly reccomend the C-more. The windage and elevation adj. lock down after you zero. Low profile less snagging, plain dot.

All those high tech pretty patterns of the other scope look really cool till you find out that half your target is covered up by all the nonsense crap.

A dot centers easier.
DevilsAdvocate  [Team Member]
12/22/2002 2:36:39 AM
Believe it or not, I really like my ATN Ultra Sight. It works VERY well when placed on a RAS-type handguard in front of the detachable A3 rear sight.

Get the DIGITAL Ultra Sight. The battery holder is MUCH better in those.

The best thing about the sight is the size of the optic screen. It allows you to pick-up the bead much quicker, and you are NOT looking through a tube.

The set-up


The sight picture
u-baddog  [Team Member]
12/23/2002 2:17:37 PM
EOtech is a quality tool

I have a 511 with the dot in the circle ret. I would buy it again. The large circle is very fast for man size targets and the dot get you in the center if need be. Very fast.

Do a search on this site.
green18  [Team Member]
12/23/2002 6:18:27 PM
EO tech! Had em all this is the one I kept!
HiramRanger  [Team Member]
12/23/2002 6:41:45 PM
I'll be the voice of discent and say Aimpoint. I don't get the "tube" sensation if I have both eyes open. If I close my weak eye and sight through my dominant eye it does appear to be like a scope with the tube effect, but then again you are using it as a scope then instead of a reflex sight.
Werew  [Member]
12/26/2002 12:12:48 AM
I received an upper assembly on Christmas Eve. All I need now is a rear sight assembly for the rail, and a nice "holo" sight. Any tips on making the rear and front sight line up with a "holo" sight(co-witness), are they(holographic sights) pretty much uniform in height from the rail?



Max looks thrilled doesnt he!
robar  [Member]
12/26/2002 12:24:10 AM
I'm wondering what you guys all think about utilizing a weapon sight that requires batteries to work. Like what happens if, in the middle of a gunfight, your batteries run out? Or what happens if your little battery terminal connections corrode, or you give the thing a knock and you disconnect the batteries from the terminals. Or you put the thing throuh a couple of freeze-thaw cycles, and a wee bit of moisture works it's way into one of those really sensitve electronic circuits.

I mean, having a weapon sight that needs to be turned on in great for the offensive role. You're gonna attack the bad guys, so you turn the thing on as your pickling. But hey, what if you're on the defensive, you're stationed in the middle of no-where doing guard duty for months on end. What are you gonna do, just leave the thing on for nine or twelve months? Battery life is enormously reduced in a hot climate. Battery current is enormmously reduced in a cold climate. Quick, a sucide bomber is trying to run through your guard post, you pick up your wepon, point it, realize that you forgot to turn the damn thing on, reach for the on button, but before you can ---BOOM---. Guess that in all the stress of being attacked, you just forgot to turn the damn thing on. Ever train with a weapon that had a sight that DIDN'T need to be turn on? Guess that old training just imbedded itself in your brain just a little too deeply.

What happens if somebody explodes a RPG right in front of you and covers the whole thing with mud. Conventional sights clean up a whole lot faster, when covered with mud, then does some precision piece of Waterford crystal gunsight. Remember, Mr. Murphy wants to be by your side, always.
Werew  [Member]
12/26/2002 1:59:40 AM
That's why there's a "co-witness" configuration. You can view the normal firearms sights through these quick acquisition-type sights(while it's on or off) and not suffer any loss in accuracy or amount of time to acquire the target using standard sights. Most people that use them do so in a "co-witness" configuration.

If there are multiple BG's, these types of sights provide the shooter EXTREMELY fast shot placement, thus another description given to them "quick acquisition".

If on guard, of course it'd be left turned off, and if anything were to occur, after my first shots fired and getting cover, it'd be turned on ASAP for usage.

I do agree that being well practiced and trained with the standard sights holds higher importance than relying 100% on a battery operated device, or a scope for that matter.
Garryowen  [Industry Partner]
12/26/2002 5:23:27 AM
OKO is one of the best sights out there for the money....
Wobblin-Goblin  [Team Member]
12/26/2002 10:08:19 AM
I've tried Reflex sights, Aimpoints, and EOTech. I bought the EOTech and think highly of it.
armabill  [Member]
12/26/2002 6:04:30 PM
Werew, how did you train your dog to hold the AR up with his nose?
Werew  [Member]
12/26/2002 7:21:19 PM
Armabill,
Sauerkraut and vienerschnitzel in the handguards.

Someone should invent a scratch N sniff board code so I could post the aftermath, after eating sauerkraut and vienerschnitzel Max has the capacity to clear an entire house quicker than a SWAT team on crystal-meth!!!

Max has a bad habit of kitchen counter food thievery.... worst ever was when he ate an entire plate of deviled eggs(1 dozen!).


HiramRanger  [Team Member]
12/26/2002 8:42:36 PM
Robar... Aimpoint is shockproof, fogproof, waterproof, has a battery life of 1,000-10,000 hours on the CET model M2 and ML2, cowitnesses my front and rear sight, is night-vision compatible and is in use by the world's top specops units... Yeah, I lose a lot of sleep over your concerns.
Sharkman  [Team Member]
12/26/2002 8:52:34 PM
I have all three optics you mention, and I'd rank them in this order from best to worst:

1. EOTech
2. Aimpoint
3. C-More

IMHO, the EOTech is by far the best.
robar  [Member]
12/28/2002 9:54:19 PM
Co-witness eh? Well I guess I just have to get a EO Tech and try it. One doesn't fully know what they're talking about unless one actually tries the gear. However, their use by specops because, as I stated above, that's mainly OFFENSIVE work. Specops guys are trained to attack. Uncle Sam spends way, way too much money training specops soldiers to use them for say guard duty at the latrine.
jtw2  [Team Member]
12/28/2002 10:29:20 PM

Believe it or not, I really like my ATN Ultra Sight. It works VERY well




I agree. I have an OKO as well as an ATN and I like them both about the same, but the ATN's advantage is the 4 different sites configurations (like the eotech) for different situations. Can't beat the price either. I got mine for about $150 if I recall.

Mine co-witnesses with the irons (I have an arms #40 flip up) which was cool to roughly zero it as all I had to do is adjust windage and elevation until the reticle sat right on top of my front post.