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Form 4 times at 6 months + is it going to improve this year?
4/29/2012 4:03:41 PM
For the past year or more transfer times have done nothing but get worse even after the shuffle up of examiner by state. I would have thought that would have helped but that does not seem to be the case. The times keep getting longer each month and I am a bit worried where the dial is going to end up on transfer times. Is there any light at the end of the tunnel? Any rumors of things maybe getting better this year?
4/29/2012 8:25:09 PM
How would things get better? The amount of forms are only going up and the number of examiners is staying the same. I wouldn't be surprised if the wait times exceed 12 months real soon.
4/29/2012 8:38:47 PM
Was dividing the forms up by state really supposed to save time? Seems like it would just mean that some people get lucky and happen to be in a state with an examiner who works harder, and some people are unlucky and live in a state assigned to a lazy examiner. When everyone is in one giant stack together, they all get the same average wait time.
As to your original question: No, it isn't going to improve for a long time. The demand isn't going down. The ATF refuses to move anyone else into the examiner's office. From time to time an examiner will quit.
At the very minimum I don't expect wait times to improve, at the very earliest, until a president who isn't Obama takes office and directs the ATF director to get them done faster. That's the quickest relief we can expect, and it isn't even a sure thing.
In the mean time, have you talked to your representatives about it? Call them tomorrow.
As to your original question: No, it isn't going to improve for a long time. The demand isn't going down. The ATF refuses to move anyone else into the examiner's office. From time to time an examiner will quit.
At the very minimum I don't expect wait times to improve, at the very earliest, until a president who isn't Obama takes office and directs the ATF director to get them done faster. That's the quickest relief we can expect, and it isn't even a sure thing.
In the mean time, have you talked to your representatives about it? Call them tomorrow.
4/29/2012 9:05:41 PM
I'm sure it would have saved time, but there was two examiners that retired. So when you take 1/6th of the number of people running transfers, and take them away, yeah, its going to make times run longer.
4/29/2012 10:14:39 PM
According to the NFA time calculator, I'm looking at 9-10 months total process time.
4/30/2012 4:04:28 AM
As others have said, wait times aren't likely to get shorter any time soon. There is something we can all do, however, that has the potential to help. Write to your respective members of Congress and ask them to look into what can be done to streamline the NFA approval process. Frame your argument in terms of the jobs that could be created in both the government and private sectors to deal with the ever-increasing demand for NFA items. Point out how ridiculous it is that the tax revenue brought in by the NFA branch is not being used to enable ATF to dig itself out from under the massive backlog of paperwork.
It may work or it may not, but I think this is a case where taking action is preferable to commiserating about wait times and resigning ourselves to the fact that they will only get worse. I know for a fact that the American Silencer Association is actively working with ATF and members of Congress to determine what can be done to improve the process. Among ASA's goals is the creation of a standardized form that we can use when contacting our elected officials about the NFA. Voice your concerns loudly so that you may shoot quietly!
It may work or it may not, but I think this is a case where taking action is preferable to commiserating about wait times and resigning ourselves to the fact that they will only get worse. I know for a fact that the American Silencer Association is actively working with ATF and members of Congress to determine what can be done to improve the process. Among ASA's goals is the creation of a standardized form that we can use when contacting our elected officials about the NFA. Voice your concerns loudly so that you may shoot quietly!
4/30/2012 7:09:51 AM
with the election season coming up, expect to see the already substantial lead times increase substantially as the panic buying really takes hold.
4/30/2012 10:37:53 AM
Originally Posted By felrom:
Was dividing the forms up by state really supposed to save time? Seems like it would just mean that some people get lucky and happen to be in a state with an examiner who works harder, and some people are unlucky and live in a state assigned to a lazy examiner. When everyone is in one giant stack together, they all get the same average wait time.
Was dividing the forms up by state really supposed to save time? Seems like it would just mean that some people get lucky and happen to be in a state with an examiner who works harder, and some people are unlucky and live in a state assigned to a lazy examiner. When everyone is in one giant stack together, they all get the same average wait time.
I think the idea was to allow each examiner to focus on knowing the laws of a handful of states assigned to them, instead of having to know all the laws of every state. Since a lot of states and local municipalities have NFA laws that vary from the Federal laws, it was a burden on examiners to have to bounce around from state to state when examining forms. I think all things being equal, it is much faster.
The real reason they're falling behind is the shortage of examiners, as mentioned earlier. Once the hiring freeze is over, it will still take time to interview, hire and train new examiners, and then even more time to catch up on the pending forms before the wait time starts to fall. I don't think we will see the times start dropping this year, but maybe if they start hiring again soon, 2013 might fall back down to a 2-4 month wait time.
4/30/2012 11:48:03 AM
Originally Posted By graysonp:
I think the idea was to allow each examiner to focus on knowing the laws of a handful of states assigned to them, instead of having to know all the laws of every state. Since a lot of states and local municipalities have NFA laws that vary from the Federal laws, it was a burden on examiners to have to bounce around from state to state when examining forms. I think all things being equal, it is much faster.
The real reason they're falling behind is the shortage of examiners, as mentioned earlier. Once the hiring freeze is over, it will still take time to interview, hire and train new examiners, and then even more time to catch up on the pending forms before the wait time starts to fall. I don't think we will see the times start dropping this year, but maybe if they start hiring again soon, 2013 might fall back down to a 2-4 month wait time.
Originally Posted By felrom:
Was dividing the forms up by state really supposed to save time? Seems like it would just mean that some people get lucky and happen to be in a state with an examiner who works harder, and some people are unlucky and live in a state assigned to a lazy examiner. When everyone is in one giant stack together, they all get the same average wait time.
Was dividing the forms up by state really supposed to save time? Seems like it would just mean that some people get lucky and happen to be in a state with an examiner who works harder, and some people are unlucky and live in a state assigned to a lazy examiner. When everyone is in one giant stack together, they all get the same average wait time.
I think the idea was to allow each examiner to focus on knowing the laws of a handful of states assigned to them, instead of having to know all the laws of every state. Since a lot of states and local municipalities have NFA laws that vary from the Federal laws, it was a burden on examiners to have to bounce around from state to state when examining forms. I think all things being equal, it is much faster.
The real reason they're falling behind is the shortage of examiners, as mentioned earlier. Once the hiring freeze is over, it will still take time to interview, hire and train new examiners, and then even more time to catch up on the pending forms before the wait time starts to fall. I don't think we will see the times start dropping this year, but maybe if they start hiring again soon, 2013 might fall back down to a 2-4 month wait time.
Folks, the hiring freeze only prevents hiring new employees to the federal work force. They can recruit from the existing federal work force. They just do not want to hire more examiners. I know this because I work at the Office of Personnel Management.
4/30/2012 12:38:59 PM
Originally Posted By Freezeland:
Folks, the hiring freeze only prevents hiring new employees to the federal work force. They can recruit from the existing federal work force. They just do not want to hire more examiners. I know this because I work at the Office of Personnel Management.
Folks, the hiring freeze only prevents hiring new employees to the federal work force. They can recruit from the existing federal work force. They just do not want to hire more examiners. I know this because I work at the Office of Personnel Management.
I've forgotten the exact grade, but examiners are entry-level positions. So the only way you can recruit is via a horizontal move of someone in an entry-level job outside NFA Branch.
Since the entire NFA Branch is in Martinsburg, W.Va., population 17,227, there are not a lot of other local entry-level pay grade federal employees ... and who is going to move there just to get an entry-level job? Maybe if NFA Branch was still in D.C.
YMMV.
4/30/2012 1:11:43 PM
Originally Posted By tony_k:
I've forgotten the exact grade, but examiners are entry-level positions. So the only way you can recruit is via a horizontal move of someone in an entry-level job outside NFA Branch.
Since the entire NFA Branch is in Martinsburg, W.Va., population 17,227, there are not a lot of other local entry-level pay grade federal employees ... and who is going to move there just to get an entry-level job? Maybe if NFA Branch was still in D.C.
YMMV.
Originally Posted By Freezeland:
Folks, the hiring freeze only prevents hiring new employees to the federal work force. They can recruit from the existing federal work force. They just do not want to hire more examiners. I know this because I work at the Office of Personnel Management.
Folks, the hiring freeze only prevents hiring new employees to the federal work force. They can recruit from the existing federal work force. They just do not want to hire more examiners. I know this because I work at the Office of Personnel Management.
I've forgotten the exact grade, but examiners are entry-level positions. So the only way you can recruit is via a horizontal move of someone in an entry-level job outside NFA Branch.
Since the entire NFA Branch is in Martinsburg, W.Va., population 17,227, there are not a lot of other local entry-level pay grade federal employees ... and who is going to move there just to get an entry-level job? Maybe if NFA Branch was still in D.C.
YMMV.
What if as a benefit of working for the NFA Branch your forms got to be approved first....
That could bring in lots of people to work.
4/30/2012 1:33:12 PM
Originally Posted By tony_k:
I've forgotten the exact grade, but examiners are entry-level positions. So the only way you can recruit is via a horizontal move of someone in an entry-level job outside NFA Branch.
Since the entire NFA Branch is in Martinsburg, W.Va., population 17,227, there are not a lot of other local entry-level pay grade federal employees ... and who is going to move there just to get an entry-level job? Maybe if NFA Branch was still in D.C.
YMMV.
Originally Posted By Freezeland:
Folks, the hiring freeze only prevents hiring new employees to the federal work force. They can recruit from the existing federal work force. They just do not want to hire more examiners. I know this because I work at the Office of Personnel Management.
Folks, the hiring freeze only prevents hiring new employees to the federal work force. They can recruit from the existing federal work force. They just do not want to hire more examiners. I know this because I work at the Office of Personnel Management.
I've forgotten the exact grade, but examiners are entry-level positions. So the only way you can recruit is via a horizontal move of someone in an entry-level job outside NFA Branch.
Since the entire NFA Branch is in Martinsburg, W.Va., population 17,227, there are not a lot of other local entry-level pay grade federal employees ... and who is going to move there just to get an entry-level job? Maybe if NFA Branch was still in D.C.
YMMV.
You would be surprised at the number of folks commuting to DC from WV. Im sure many of them would rather not make that commute and work instead in their home state WV. It would save many of those commuters 3 hours of windshield time everyday.
4/30/2012 4:28:42 PM
Originally Posted By Freezeland:
You would be surprised at the number of folks commuting to DC from WV. Im sure many of them would rather not make that commute and work instead in their home state WV. It would save many of those commuters 3 hours of windshield time everyday.
You would be surprised at the number of folks commuting to DC from WV. Im sure many of them would rather not make that commute and work instead in their home state WV. It would save many of those commuters 3 hours of windshield time everyday.
Maybe you're right –– I'm not civil service (in fact, I'm retired and living on the beach in Florida). So I'll defer to your expertise.
FWIW, Legal Instruments Examiner is GS-0963-6/7/8/9. IIRC, that's around $50k per year, plus the D.C. adjustment. I sure wouldn't spend 15 hours a week commuting, and pay for all that commuting gas, for only $50k/year. Seems like you'd wind up eternally broke and tired. No wonder civil servants have such bad attitudes!
4/30/2012 7:53:36 PM
Originally Posted By frettedfive:
As others have said, wait times aren't likely to get shorter any time soon. There is something we can all do, however, that has the potential to help. Write to your respective members of Congress and ask them to look into what can be done to streamline the NFA approval process. Frame your argument in terms of the jobs that could be created in both the government and private sectors to deal with the ever-increasing demand for NFA items. Point out how ridiculous it is that the tax revenue brought in by the NFA branch is not being used to enable ATF to dig itself out from under the massive backlog of paperwork.
It may work or it may not, but I think this is a case where taking action is preferable to commiserating about wait times and resigning ourselves to the fact that they will only get worse. I know for a fact that the American Silencer Association is actively working with ATF and members of Congress to determine what can be done to improve the process. Among ASA's goals is the creation of a standardized form that we can use when contacting our elected officials about the NFA. Voice your concerns loudly so that you may shoot quietly!
As others have said, wait times aren't likely to get shorter any time soon. There is something we can all do, however, that has the potential to help. Write to your respective members of Congress and ask them to look into what can be done to streamline the NFA approval process. Frame your argument in terms of the jobs that could be created in both the government and private sectors to deal with the ever-increasing demand for NFA items. Point out how ridiculous it is that the tax revenue brought in by the NFA branch is not being used to enable ATF to dig itself out from under the massive backlog of paperwork.
It may work or it may not, but I think this is a case where taking action is preferable to commiserating about wait times and resigning ourselves to the fact that they will only get worse. I know for a fact that the American Silencer Association is actively working with ATF and members of Congress to determine what can be done to improve the process. Among ASA's goals is the creation of a standardized form that we can use when contacting our elected officials about the NFA. Voice your concerns loudly so that you may shoot quietly!
There isn't much that congress can or will do other than pass a budget that includes more money for ATF for this specific purpose.
A Better idea, something that is entirely 100% in our control, is to submit forms that are 100% correct and accurate the very first time. Check and double check. I've heard estimates ranging from 40% to 50% as to the amount of submitted forms that require corrective action to some degree due to applicant error. Many are from simple oversights, like missing serial number or other required information, but others are from taking bad or incorrect advice, like submitting a Form 1 with multiple barrel lengths and calibers instead of the specified one.
Another positive action would be to eliminate all unnecessary correspondence with NFA Branch examiners. This would include notifications of configuration changes, always unnecessary and frequently misunderstood and non-appicable to start with.
I'm quite sure we could shave at least a month off the processing time if examiners didn't have to waste time with corrective action.
I would love to see the stickies on this subject updated. The current one still states that copies of Trusts must be notarized before submission. While this is not a cause of delays, it is indicative of the incorrect information being passed along these boards.
