DPMS Full Auto/Burst Parts kits (Confused)

So I was looking through a Brownells AR catalog that came in the mail and noticed DPMS full auto/burst trigger group parts.
Auto sears, disconnectors, triggers, ect....
Obviously it says all NFA rules apply

I thought you could only use registered auto sears from before 1986 or whatever.
Are you allowed to buy new trigger parts if you have a registered M16 only?
Who could buy these parts?

I have never seen stuff like this for sale, except the ones that cost thousands of dollars.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/cid=10826/k=/t=P/avs|Manufacturer_1=DPMS%20FIREARMS%20LLC/Products/Triggers-Bottom-Metals

I think you are confusing a drop-in auto-sear with an M16 auto-sear.

M16 and AR15 receivers are quite different, it's not just an extra pin hole. You could not physically put the auto-sear into an AR-15 The main purpose of listing those parts is to sell to Law Enforcement Agencies who get free M16s on loan from the US Government.

It is perfectly legal to purchase and use those parts if you own an M16 registered lower.

What you're thinking about is the Registered Drop-In Auto Sear that will allow an AR15 to be converted to full auto. THOSE are limited to the ones manufactured and registered before '86...

...though it gets iffy if you keep spare parts other than those in the gun, even with a RR M16.

Ah, yes I was confused.

Thanks

Ummm. No....That is incorrect.

You've likely been around this stuff longer than I, so I'd welcome any clarification...but I was just going by this, and the assumption via the OP's question that he also has an AR :

DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS
WASHINGTON, DC 20226

MAR 25 1999 903050:CHB
3311


Dear Mr. :

This refers to your letter in which you asked about possession of
spare M-16 machinegun parts by a person who possesses a registered
M-16 and a semiautomatic AR-15 rifle.

Any weapon which shoots automatically more than one shot, without
manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger meets the
definition of a machinegun in section 5845(b) of the National
Firearms Act (NFA). An AR-15 rifle, which is assembled with
certain M-16 machinegun fire control components, and which is
capable of shooting automatically is a machinegun as defined.

The definition of machinegun in section 5845(b) also includes any
combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if
such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.
Thus, an AR-15 rifle possessed with separate M-16 machinegun
components can meet the definition of a machinegun, if the rifle
shoots automatically when the components are installed.

The fact that a person lawfully possesses a registered NFA firearm
does not grant authorization to possess additional non-registered
firearms. A person who possesses a registered M-16 machinegun and
a semiautomatic AR-15 rifle and a separate quantity of M-16
machinegun components could be in possession of two machineguns.

We would advise any person who possesses an AR-15 rifle not to
possess M-16 fire control component. If a person possessed only
the M-16 machinegun and spare M-16 fire control components for that
machinegun, the person would possess only one machinegun.

We trust that the foregoing has been responsive to your inquiry.
If you have further questions concerning this matter, please
contact us.

Sincerely yours,


Edward M. Owen, Jr.
Chief, Firearms Technology Branch

Pretty sure that's incorrect. I think you're referring to constructive intent, and from what I understand you can only be guilty of constructive intent if there is no legal way to assemble all the parts you have, though they don't all have to be assembled at the same time.

If you had 5 different short barreled AR uppers, but didn't own a pistol lower or a registered SBR low, you'd be in trouble.
If you had the same 5 short barreled AR uppers, but owned at least one pistol lower, OR at least on SBR lower, you're fine because every part can be assembled in a legal way.

I don't know the specifics of how this would apply to having an M16 trigger group, and an AR15 lower. Since they can't physically be assembled together I'm not sure if it's constructive intent, or if the silliness about "8-hours in a machine shops" comes into play.

Someone more knowledgeable will be along to correct both of us, but I didn't want any more people coming across this and thinking constructive intent is something it isn't.

Well, we all know that ATF opinion letters such as the one I posted above only apply to the addressee, and that said letters may conflict with each other in the rulings given...but it appeared to me that the bottomline in that opinion letter was that owning an AR along with M16 FCG parts is a no-no, even if you own an M16 and have a lawful use for the parts.

It appears from that letter that the only lawful way to own extra M16 FCG parts is to only own the M16, no AR's. Silly that you can't have spare parts for your own gun, but it's also silly that (to my understanding) you can't have replacement parts to rebuild your legally-owned suppressor, either.

Alternatively, if one owns both an M16 and an AR, and wants to have spare M16 FCG parts just to swap out in their M16 if needed...it might be an idea to ask a friend who does not own an AR (or have plans to buy one) to buy a spare M16 FCG kit, so that you could buy the parts from him if needed on short notice to repair your M16.

I think you missed the key word in that opinion..... "could". It doesn't say a person would be in possession, it says they could be in possession.

Got it. IMHO, the key part was a little more clear: "We would advise any person who possesses an AR-15 rifle not to possess M-16 fire control component."

Either way, it's just an opinion letter, applying to one person only. IRL- you could be right, as could I (and I'm open to learning when I'm wrong)...but seeing that letter is just enough to keep ME from keeping a spare FCG for my M16's. Anyone else including the OP is of course free to do as they choose, but it's usually helpful to know tidbits like this so that one's choice can be an informed one. That was my only reason for bringing it up to the OP.

This all makes sense to me... what I am confused about is the Sons of Guns episode last night where they converted an AR-15 to an M-16. Now, I thought the only way a manufacturer could do this was for a government contract or demo. How is what they did legal?

P.S. Sorry for slightly changing subject from OP.

Didn't watch, what brand was the receiver? If it was a new RJF lower, then they were manufacturing and not converting.

They took one of their RJF rifles and converted it. They were showing them work on it and then when he was to the final point they turned camera away because they didn't want to show how it was done. Said it would be illegal to show how to convert.

No, manufacturers with Class 2 SOT are free to make all the new machineguns they want. They can only SELL them to gov't/LE, or to other dealers with a purchase order or demo letter from govt/LE.

Thanks for clearing this up for me.

It's funny that the Sons of Guns episode was mentioned, as I paid special attention to what they were actually doing. Thank God for DVR...

Anyways, when I paused the picture when they were firing the newly converted M16, the receiver DID NOT have a sear pin/hole.

However, they did show a brief shot of them milling out the receiver...

This tells me that they were using a (R)DIAS or (R)LL, and didn't truly convert or manufacture shit...

In addition, I'd just like to say how sick it makes me every time the camera pans around their shop, and I see a bunch of NC Star products being used in their builds.

I mean, I used to buy NC Star stuff, but that was until I realized it was JUNK. And what really irritates me is that RJF charges "game changing" prices for their builds.

I wish they'd use quality components, and just blur out the names or whatever...

Fuck it. I still watch that shit, and I still wanna bang Steph on Will's desk.

~WTS

They used a jig to drill the sear hole and then milled out the rear of the receiver to M16 specs for the auto sear to function. They then installed the FCG, selector and a new buffer.

Milling out the rear of an AR15 is way beyond a kitchen table gunsmith, so I don't see what the big deal was.

so one can't have their gun set up to run a RIDAS if they don't own one?

sorry, have to mention the best gun builders ever......


"ain't neva been done be fow"

They did not set up the gun for a DIAS. They milled the receiver to M16 specs and installed M16 parts.

Dude, did NO ONE read my post....there WERE NO HOLES DRILLED FOR THE SEAR!!!

YOU CANNOT HAVE A TRUE M16 WITHOUT A SEAR INSTALLED.

I'd bet my mama's sweet ass that there were no holes...I know what I saw, because I know what I was looking for.

No one has said that I am wrong, they just keep saying that they made an m16...wtf.. Is no one actually looking to see what they did??

~WTS

Who do you think made the DIAS or the LL? I highly doubt they got a demo letter for a DIAS considering they're an 07/02. It's harder to make a DIAS than it is to mill and drill for a stock F/A FCG... Hell, most FFL's would rather make a DIAS so they don't have to cut up or sell a post sample lower when they give up their license.

RJF does a lot of stupid stuff, but this is a TV show. IDK what you're getting so worked up about.

New sigline material right there...

Agreed

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