Who has the worst SOT dealer?

I got to thinking about it and I have burned through 3 dealer so far and the 4th is on thin ice.

I will post my stories later.

But what stories do you guys have?

I've only had one bad interaction with a Class 3 dealer. I had ordered a YHM Mite from him, and paid the money. Knowing it takes the ATF about 30 days to approve the Form 3, I began waiting. Three months went buy and the suppressor still had not shown up at his shop from YHM. After several conversations with the owner, and repeatedly getting the response of "Still nothing, it will get here when the ATF approves it", I ended up calling YHM. After explaining my situation, they had told me that there were no orders awaiting ATF approval for that shop. After that conversation, I went back to them and they got very defensive. The owner said to me that "they [YHM] wouldn't tell you anything about their customer orders, and if they did, I would cancel all of the transactions I had with them." In the end, he refunded my money, and I went to another dealer and purchased a TAC-65 for a cheaper price than the Mite. Apparently I was not the first person to have this type of interaction with this dealer. Since then I have not set foot into his shop.

I guess I must be lucky to have a great deal here in MO.

He is a stand up guy and great to work with

The guy I work with locally is aces, but the jury is still out on one in another state from which I purchased a SBR'ed SP89.



Rest of story deleted...too boring.

Dealer east of Colorado Springs, twice I went into his shop with cash in hand and he wouldn't even take 5 min to answer my questions or show me the firearms I was interested in buying. I was looking at a full-size Uzi and he wouldn't even tell me the manufacturer, much less any info on type of conversion; same with an M16. He said he would show it to me only if i agreed to buy it. I told him I would never agree to buy something from him if he couldn't move it 5 ft to let me take a look at it first. The guy obviously didn't care about selling anything. Good news is we now have 5 dealers in the area, all except D A have been a pleasure to deal with! I eventually bought my M16 from Ruben Mendiola and my Vector Uzi through a private seller in FL. Sad when someone's so much of a jerk they won't even show you what's advertised for sale when you're willing to drop over $20,000 on two guns.......His wife was nice and helpful on the phone, but unfortunately she wasn't the one in the shop when I was ready to buy. I've heard others say they've had better luck dealing with him, but that wasn't my experience

i bought a can directly from the manufacturer, a small out fit in AZ that i called and the owner told me he had the suppressor i wanted IN STOCK and ready to ship so there would be no wait. Mailed him the check and my FFL info December 20 2009, he receiver it December 26 when he sent an email informing me that we was sending the Form 3 out that day........ Waited....Email......Waited.... Email..... Waited..... Late February i call and ask where the can is "nah, still waiting on the Form 3"...... Waited......... Waited.......Email.... Waited..... call and ask in early April and the same thing "waiting on the Form 3 to come back" he may have given me a reason for the long wait or some type of excuse but i can't remember......... Waited.....Waited...... each time i emailed him i got no response or the same "waiting on the Form 3" emailed back to me but i can't remember exactly...... Still waiting at this point until mid may when i get a call from him saying "hey it turns out that i got you mixed up with another guy and i never actually sent out the Form 3 so if you like i can refund your money or give you $100 back on the can"
WTF?!?! was more or less my response but in a very polite and respectful way. I said yes i still want the can and i would like the $100 as well as a 2nd QD flash hider with the can. he agreed and actually sent out the Form 3 to which i requested a copy be sent to my FFL so i know it happened this time. about 30/40 days later the can showed up at my local FFL but..... i was in FL at the time so i still had to wait about 2 more weeks till i got back to CT. so by September 9 2010 i had my Form 4 all filled out with my photo and finger prints ready for my CLEO signature and dropped it off......... September 10 2010
...... wait on him to "do a background check" on me (he's a cop also) ...... so he call s me in October to ask me a few questions, i'm out of state training and can't come in, "can we do this over the phone" i ask. "no, i need you to come in in person" so November 20 he finally has some time for me and my interview where he asks about me registering my other firearms and getting my class 3 license and what not. i attempt to correct him on the NFA process but he isn't really interested cause he's a cop and is right so i just agree, he signs the form 4 and i leave.
so...... 35 days short of a full year after paying for my suppressor i finally can send out my Form 4 to start the 4-6 month wait

then come mid March 2011 the approved Form 4 and stamp arrives at my FFL, at this time i'm in VA at MOS school AHHHHH i can't win. drove home that weekend and shot it after about 18 months after paying for it so.... not going to that guy again
i now have a trust and can't be happier.

Yeah, Mel runs the machine shop, not the gunstore. He doesn't own pretty much any of the Title 2 guns on display in his shop, and the ones he does own are his guns and not for sale, so he has no incentive to show or sell them to you. He couldn't have taken your $20k even if you'd forced it into his hands.

To have had a good buying experience, you'd have had to contact the actual owner to come out and demo for you and agree on a price. The actual owner sells them mostly online over at subguns.

That explains a lot actually, I assume you're talking about Kurt as the owner of the weapons. Either way, been years since I've bothered going out there, before we got some new dealers around the springs I did most transfers through Alan Samuel up in Dumont and a few through Pete at Shadow River Productions on the north end of town. I like dealing with both of them, but it's nice to have a selection of dealers available now that Class 3 is a little more popular in general

Please IM me his name so I don't have to deal with him.

Had a dealer here that I spoke with about buying/transfer from out of state. He wanted $200 for the transfer. He then tried to pitch me his suppressors which would have cost more than the transfer. In the end, I smiled, said thanks, and havent been back.

I have heard lots of horror stories about the shop (from 2 buddies of mine who ran a class 3 that ran out of bus right before I was ready to order the cans!)
and had just neutral experiences with them myself.

Now I refuse to give them ANY of my business.

Yep, Kurt actually owns most of them.

It wasn't Smith Enterprises was it?

No it wasn't him but someone that is or used to be associated with him, not sure what their deal is now. either way i'm not one to start shit or run businesses names into the dirt so i'm not going to name them directly.
if you would like to know more just PM me

You must be talking about the guy that use to make his can's.

I have been waiting on a Smith can for my m14 since the end of Jan.


EDITED OUT A NAME.

January 26, 2011 I wrote a check to my (former) dealer for a G-5 including the $200 tax. It was to be my first NFA item, so I didn't know better. I had asked him about the benefits of a trust as well and his reply was that I didn't need one because I could get a CLEO sig without problem and that he'd be glad to set one up for me for $900.

Fast Forward to June 20, 2011 - I figure I should be getting my stamp any day now, so why not get another started? I go back to the dealer for fingerprints, pics, paperwork, etc to SBR one of my lowers, and write him a check for the $200 tax stamp and $100 for prints, pics, etc. Again, I was ignorant of the process.

FF to November 2011 - A buddy got his trust for half what I was quoted by my dealer, we discuss the benefits of a trust, I look into it further. At the same time I'm thinking 10 months is BS to have waited for my suppressor. In talking to many other dealers, people, and reading threads about wait times, I figure something is wrong. I call and email dealer repeatedly to get a copy of my Form 4 so I can check the status (No, I never got one at the time of purchase. Yes, I know that is fucked up...now.), his reply is he has customers that want their rifles sighted in for deer season. Fully understanding the desire to make the $40 customer happy and ignore the $1400 customer because he already has my money, I ask when he might find time in his busy schedule to pull my Form 4 out of his filing cabinet, scan it, and email me a copy, because I know that should take probably a half day or better. His reply was a week or some such nonsense. No problem. Guess what? I happen to have the lower in my safe that we filled out a Form 1 on in June. Should be close to getting approved right? WRONG. ATF has no record of that SN in its files. So 10 months no stamp on a suppressor, no SN to check status, and no great hope for joy any time soon...5 months and my SBR paperwork isn't even in the system at all much less pending or approved.

More research reveals that I'm not the only person not entirely pleased with is less than stellar service, he has a sterling reputation for this very thing (This was discovered after telling vague portions of my saga without mentioning the vicinity and 5 FFL-SOTs and 2 trust lawyers guessing the name of the business and proprietor), I discover I'd rather have an HVT-QD instead of the G-5, and I feel my situation is perfect to take advantage of the benefits a trust offers.

I finally get him on the phone again, after leaving multiple messages with no return call two weeks after he told me it would take him a week to get my Form 4 to me. I asked him where my copy of the Form 4 was for my suppressor and the Form 1 for SBRing my lower. He told me he hasn't had time and that it was a Form 4 to SBR my lower. I told him it was MY lower already in MY possession, not one I was purchasing from him. He stated it had to be approved on a Form 3 to him first because he is the manufacturer, then to me on a Form 4. I just about lost it there. I managed to keep my cool just enough to tell him a Form 1 was a request to manufacture, an SBR in my case, and you know what fuck it. This has been the single worst transaction of my life and far worse than anything I would ever expect in the firearms community and that I wanted my money back in its entirety for the suppressor and my Form 1. He requested an email so I sent him one requesting my money back while indicating I could scan and send receipts if he would like proof of the amount. He responded that he would "contact the accountant and it would take a week to get a check to me". Exactly one week later I received an email saying his accountant had sent the check for a refund in full. Two days later I received a check from him, filled out by him, and signed by him (Apparently, it takes him a week to contact himself, since he is the accountant). I promptly drove to his bank 45 miles away from his place of business (Why would someone bank 45 miles away from their place of business? I found out the answer to this question as well.) and 30 miles away from my current location to cash it in person. I wanted cash in my hands and no charge back to my bank account.

During all this I moved to an area that CLEOs refuse to sign, so a trust became the way of the future for me by necessity in addition to having already decided to get one for the many other benefits it offers. Amazingly, the most expensive trust I found was $600. Every one of the lawyers I talked to asked if he were a lawyer too because he can't legally charge for services rendered if he isn't. Remember, two of these guys guessed who I was talking about. I found that he has multiple complaints to the BBB, ripoff report, County Attorney, etc for his underwhelming business practices and ethics.

So here I am, 15 months after I started this, still waiting on my stamps to arrive so I can play with a couple NFA toys, when I should have had one for almost 10 months now and the other for 4 months. I'm 4 to 6 months out at best, considering current wait times, but I'm not dealing with his crap, I have a trust, and have a suppressor waiting that will allow me to shoot more calibers. So in an odd way, he actually saved me about $1400 by fucking me around for 11 months. I still would have had to get a trust, would have been waiting on an HVT-QD right now anyway, and would be waiting on two stamps to come back to transfer my G-5 and SBR to my trust, so my wife could legally have the combination to the safe. Legally have, not that she does have, but should the need arise, I don't have to worry about constructive possession landing my ass or hers in FPITAP.

In short, if you are in the Killeen / Ft. Hood area, do your research if planning on purchasing any NFA item within 45 miles...especially to the West.

okay,


My first SOT got tangled up in this http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/10_05/b4165000370242.htm for bribing Gov. officals in Africa. I hear he got off. I hope he reopens as he was a GOOD dealer.



My 2nd dealer Jon. Well some people did not like him. He always treated me well. I was going to have my HALO can transfered though him in 09. I bought it on Gem Techs Black Friday sale.

I paid for the can and tried to call Jon to let him know it was coming. I tried all week and nothing. So I call GT back and told them. They said Jon was a Stocking dealer but he owed them money. GT told of another dealer closer to my house so I went there, will will call him F (more to F later he was dealer #3).

A week later, I read this http://www.ar15.com/mobile/topic.html?b=1&f=146&t=970399

Anvil Arms

From their website

December 15, 2009

To Whom It May Concern:

Mr. Jonathan A. Kruger, former Managing Member, has been terminated from Anvil Arms and, unfortunately, he has subsequently removed all of the equipment, inventory and records from the premises. Legal measures have been taken against Mr. Kruger for his actions.

Due to the nature of the business of Anvil Arms, activities conducted or in any way associated with or represented by Mr. Kruger since his dismissal were unauthorized as he has been removed from the Federal Firearms License (FFL) held by Anvil Arms LLC and such activities have been reported to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE).

Anvil Arms LLC would like to extend to you a sincere apology for any inconvenience you may have experienced as a result of the change in control of the organization and the subsequent events that have prevented Anvil Arms LLC from continuing normal business operations. New management is utilizing its best efforts to deal with a complicated and unfortunate situation.

Mr. Milton Disser, the new acting Manager of the limited liability company, can be contacted via email at info@anvilarms.com.

Please direct inquiries to:

>>>>>Email: Info@AnvilArms.com<<<<<<

So Jon ran off with some people's stuff, I think he returned so of it. But a lot of people's stuff was not. I was close on this.

A year later there was an auction, then this last year. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/06/17/former-anvil-arms-operator-arrested-on-felony-charges/

Sucks to be him.

I have dealers 3 and 4 to go

Not only was this dude a bad dealer, hes also a bad gun guy.

Several years ago my wife who has always been very iffy on guns decided she wanted to take a basic pistol class. There was a new range that had just opened near us and I immediately signed her and two of her friends up. We had just recently had our first child (4 months old at that point) so she was anxious leaving him for so long (3 hours to a nursing 4 month old is pushing it). The class was advertised as brief instruction followed by lots of range time with suppressed .22s to make it fun and get them to enjoy themselves. My wife showed up 15 minutes early with one of her friends, the other was running late due to a sick child. The instructor sat the rest of the girls down and called the late friend on his cell, on speaker phone, in front of the entire class and began to harass her about being late. He started the class with the typical first shooter stuff including the 4 laws and then handed out Walther P22s to all of the girls so they could familiarize themselves with the pistols they would be shooting. Then he tells them to point the guns at him so he could verify they are lining the sites up correctly!!!! But its OK because he knows the guns are unloaded!! He then runs his mouth for 2 hours with according to my wife "boring cop stories about shooting bad guys." When the girls inquired about when they would actually be able to shoot he gave them a time later than when the class was scheduled to end. My wife left and just came home. Fast forward two years later and I order a SSparrow to be transferred into the local SOT who happens to be stationed in that LGS but not actually employed by that store and guess who handles my transfer. I asked him if they stocked Gemtec and he spent 20 minutes bashing Gemtec cans. I found a new guy and he gets 100% of my title 1 and 2 business now.

So... you have an FFL/SOT "setting up trusts" for customers for $900... and I'd bet he's not an attorney.


Your local FFL/SOT should have nothing to do with your Form 1 - completing and submitting that paperwork is entirely on you. Get the lower engraved if you haven't already, download the F1 PDF file from ATF's web site, and get it submitted.

Boy that story sounds familiar. That can took me about 17 months from check to delivery to me at a time when Form 4s were running 4 months. Maybe we should all go "fishing" one day and compare notes.

My old dealer in Memphis. Long story. Short version: He sat on my approved paperwork for months out of sheer laziness. I only got my suppressor after contacting the ATF and telling my dealer so.

Glad I live in a different state now. My new guy here is Jackson Mississippi is awesome though!! Lets me come over and play with his toys whenever.

I've noticed alot of these dealers are really assholes for some reason, they act like you bother them if you want a transfer or ask a question. I really don't understand what the deal is...

i've done one Form 4 transfer through a SOT...
- can was over MSRP (didn't care b/c it was in stock and I wanted to take advantage of the GEMTAX promotion)
- was told many times that he supported the 86 Hughes Amendment and the NFA, and that if I wanted to get into the "game" I could pay the price
- guy was obnoxious, refused to listen to me on how to fill out the Form 4, and fought me every step of the way
- hours were "appointment" and pretty much sucked
- after all of this he still tried to push over priced NFA items on me and even sent me a follow up email asking me to let him know when i was ready to get serious about NFA...

i'll never do business with him again, unfortunately there are a lot of stupid ass people that will... especially the NFA as investment crowd who aren't shooters by any means...

Eggzachary. I said as much in my original wall o' text.



Right. I said as much in my second paragraph.



It is back in the pipeline awaiting its turn in the stamp line. Done by me through my trust. As I said, I was ignorant of the process and when I asked him what he would charge me to help with the paperwork to SBR a lower of mine, he said just the $200 tax stamp and he'd help with the paperwork. I have since educated the hell out of myself, as I should have done from the beginning.

There's finally a good SOT in Memphis now.

AutoWeapons???

So far so good for me.
Although I'm awaiting a can so will see how the new guy turns out.

i look at their site and wonder WHO THE HELL BUYS STUFF FROM THEM????
i mean everything is "Price On Request" and the ones they post are STUPID HIGH, i mean they just pray on the 4 rich idiots a year who just throw money at them cause $30,000 is nothing to them?

Dude has an attitude problem too. I wanted to buy an MG from him, & he was way high, so I asked if he would sell me just the lower & he could keep the upper. He said "sure, for the same price." I asked if he had an m16s below $17k, & he said that he doesn't deal with junk. This was back a few years ago when $17k was high. My dealer is great. Let's me come by & shoot my MG whenever I want.

So you went fishing in Meza AZ as well? Guess that must be standard operating procedure for him or something.
Smith Ent has a new baffle design for his can that I need to call about. I'm not turd what the deal with him and his fishing buddy is but I do hope I can get Smith to upgrade my can.

I talked with one of the Smith employee's yesterday. They are waiting on some more baffle's and end plates for my 2 can's and like 8 others. I was told they should have them in in a few weeks.

Yep.

In my case, once I got wind that a new batch of can was being made for SEI, mine suddenly started moving. I can understand that he batches orders and there would be a wait, but I would prefer that people be truthful about such things.

In the past I was told that they wouldn't update the baffle stacks for civilian users. If that has changed , I'd love to hear the results you have.

i understand that and have no problem either but.....
when i call you and say "hi i want one of your cans, do you have the in stock and ready to ship out or am i going to have to wait for an other run of them"?
then you respond with "ya, i have a few in stock i can ship out as soon as the form 3 clears" THAT'S A TOTALLY DIFFERENT STORY!!!!!

I'm emailing SEI now to ask about the upgrade

Mine is about a dealer in Ft. Worth.

For my first can, I paid half to the dealer, and a few days later he sent me the serial number and paperwork to fill out. After a long fiasco with the Sheriff's office lying to me and saying they would sign, I set up a trust. So it took me about 4 weeks to get the Form 4 back to the dealer.

I met him at a gun show and gave him the Forms, trust, $200 ATF check, and a check for the balance of the suppressor. He promptly cashed the check for himself the following Monday, and sat on or ignored or lost the rest of it. A copy of my trust, and all my personal information in a nice packet with a personal check with account and routing numbers, potentially misplaced at a gun show.

When it started stretching into 4 and 5 and 6 weeks without the ATF cashing my check, I started calling him and he swore up and down that he had mailed it and that everyone was having delays on the ATF cashing their checks, a flat out lie. Finally I mailed him a second set of papers, and he sent them in.

He added about 56 days to the process for me, after the cock-sucking sheriff added about 20. If not for them, I would be expecting the forms back in the next week or so, but instead I'm waiting until the end of June.

I'll be finding another dealer for my next Form 4 item.

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