Multiple uppers for a legally registered M16 lower receiver?
Is there a restriction on the number of upper receivers one can own (various barrel lengths)?
I ask because I heard a customer a local gun shop tell the clerk that you can now only own one upper (under 16" ) for each registered lower if you own other non-machine gun AR15 lowers. He said the reason being that if you own one M16 lower and two SBR uppers then spare SBR upper can be put on one of your standard AR15's.
In other words, no spare upper for your M16 because it is assumed by ATF that you intened to mate it with one of your AR15's.
This sounds like total BS and it wouldn't bear mentioning except for the fact the gun store clerk didn't argue the point and this particular gun store sells NFA toys, suppressors, SBR's, etc. I've bought two cans there in the past.
Is there any language within the NFA play book that addresses this issue?
If you own a sbr lower or a registered m16 lower you can own as many < 16 inch uppers as you want. Or if you have a pistol lower you could do the same thing there is. No limit to uppers. The only problem that a short upper can cause is when you have a < 16 inch upper and only title 1 rifles. Then intent can be an issue to. Build an unregistered title 2 firearm.
Please turn a deaf ear to gunshop bs because most of the time its pure crap. I suggest Printing a copy of the BATF NFA hand book and becoming best friends with it
A hypothetical example to further clarify the question -
If you own 1 Registered M16 machine gun lower and 1 AR15 semiauto (complete rifle), can you legally posses 2 short barreled uppers for your M16?
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Originally Posted By Gunner1X:
A hypothetical example to further clarify the question -
If you own 1 Registered M16 machine gun lower and 1 AR15 semiauto (complete rifle), can you legally posses 2 short barreled uppers for your M16?
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Yes.
You have a legal way to use all of your uppers.
Now if you had 1 RR M16, 2 short uppers, and 1 complete rifle
lower (and no >16" upper), you'd be in trouble.
Originally Posted By Gunner1X:
A hypothetical example to further clarify the question -
If you own 1 Registered M16 machine gun lower and 1 AR15 semiauto (complete rifle), can you legally posses 2 short barreled uppers for your M16?
yes, provided that you have a >16" upper on the semi auto, and don't actually ever mount one of the short uppers on the Title 1 semi auto.
Gun shop BS.
Originally Posted By andrasik:
Originally Posted By Gunner1X:
A hypothetical example to further clarify the question -
If you own 1 Registered M16 machine gun lower and 1 AR15 semiauto (complete rifle), can you legally posses 2 short barreled uppers for your M16?
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Yes.
You have a legal way to use all of your uppers.
Now if you had 1 RR M16, 2 short uppers, and 1 complete rifle
lower (and no >16" upper), you'd be in trouble.
There is no issue here actually. The registered MG is your pathway for the legal use of any and all NFA length uppers in your possession. You do not want to actually install any short uppers on a Title I rifle, but there is no CP issue here. A registered MG also protects you from CP with M16 fire control parts, something neither a registered SBR nor a pistol lower will do.
Thanks guys. I'm well within the law. I just found it very interesting that gun shop employee didn't know enough to argue the point with the customer. This shop sells SBR' and Suppressors. I'm not sure if they sell RR. I bought my M16 lower from another dealer 6 or 7 years ago.
Originally Posted By Homeinvader:
Originally Posted By andrasik:
Originally Posted By Gunner1X:
A hypothetical example to further clarify the question -
If you own 1 Registered M16 machine gun lower and 1 AR15 semiauto (complete rifle), can you legally posses 2 short barreled uppers for your M16?
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Yes.
You have a legal way to use all of your uppers.
Now if you had 1 RR M16, 2 short uppers, and 1 complete rifle
lower (and no >16" upper), you'd be in trouble.
There is no issue here actually. The registered MG is your pathway for the legal use of any and all NFA length uppers in your possession. You do not want to actually install any short uppers on a Title I rifle, but there is no CP issue here. A registered MG also protects you from CP with M16 fire control parts, something neither a registered SBR nor a pistol lower will do.
Can you explain further? I've always been taught to understand that the above scenario I listed would be illegal.
He has (in my hypothetical, not IRL):
1x RR M16
1x AR lower with rifle stock, not registered under the NFA
2x <16" uppers and NO >16" uppers.
He does not have a legal way to assemble the AR lower.
Originally Posted By andrasik:
Originally Posted By Homeinvader:
Originally Posted By andrasik:
Originally Posted By Gunner1X:
A hypothetical example to further clarify the question -
If you own 1 Registered M16 machine gun lower and 1 AR15 semiauto (complete rifle), can you legally posses 2 short barreled uppers for your M16?
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Yes.
You have a legal way to use all of your uppers.
Now if you had 1 RR M16, 2 short uppers, and 1 complete rifle
lower (and no >16" upper), you'd be in trouble.
There is no issue here actually. The registered MG is your pathway for the legal use of any and all NFA length uppers in your possession. You do not want to actually install any short uppers on a Title I rifle, but there is no CP issue here. A registered MG also protects you from CP with M16 fire control parts, something neither a registered SBR nor a pistol lower will do.
Can you explain further? I've always been taught to understand that the above scenario I listed would be illegal.
He has (in my hypothetical, not IRL):
1x RR M16
1x AR lower with rifle stock, not registered under the NFA
2x <16" uppers and NO >16" uppers.
He does not have a legal way to assemble the AR lower.
You can have 100 lowers with no uppers for them, it doesn't have to have a > 16 upper on it to be legal.
Originally Posted By telc:
Originally Posted By andrasik:
Originally Posted By Homeinvader:
Originally Posted By andrasik:
Originally Posted By Gunner1X:
A hypothetical example to further clarify the question -
If you own 1 Registered M16 machine gun lower and 1 AR15 semiauto (complete rifle), can you legally posses 2 short barreled uppers for your M16?
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Yes.
You have a legal way to use all of your uppers.
Now if you had 1 RR M16, 2 short uppers, and 1 complete rifle
lower (and no >16" upper), you'd be in trouble.
There is no issue here actually. The registered MG is your pathway for the legal use of any and all NFA length uppers in your possession. You do not want to actually install any short uppers on a Title I rifle, but there is no CP issue here. A registered MG also protects you from CP with M16 fire control parts, something neither a registered SBR nor a pistol lower will do.
Can you explain further? I've always been taught to understand that the above scenario I listed would be illegal.
He has (in my hypothetical, not IRL):
1x RR M16
1x AR lower with rifle stock, not registered under the NFA
2x <16" uppers and NO >16" uppers.
He does not have a legal way to assemble the AR lower.
You can have 100 lowers with no uppers for them, it doesn't have to have a > 16 upper on it to be legal.
I don't see the point you're trying to make as it doesn't relate to what I've outlined above.
Maybe I should have been more clear: a complete AR lower with a stock and no >16" upper in the house, but 2x <16" uppers.
Originally Posted By andrasik:
Originally Posted By telc:
Originally Posted By andrasik:
Originally Posted By Homeinvader:
Originally Posted By andrasik:
Originally Posted By Gunner1X:
A hypothetical example to further clarify the question -
If you own 1 Registered M16 machine gun lower and 1 AR15 semiauto (complete rifle), can you legally posses 2 short barreled uppers for your M16?
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Yes.
You have a legal way to use all of your uppers.
Now if you had 1 RR M16, 2 short uppers, and 1 complete rifle
lower (and no >16" upper), you'd be in trouble.
There is no issue here actually. The registered MG is your pathway for the legal use of any and all NFA length uppers in your possession. You do not want to actually install any short uppers on a Title I rifle, but there is no CP issue here. A registered MG also protects you from CP with M16 fire control parts, something neither a registered SBR nor a pistol lower will do.
Can you explain further? I've always been taught to understand that the above scenario I listed would be illegal.
He has (in my hypothetical, not IRL):
1x RR M16
1x AR lower with rifle stock, not registered under the NFA
2x <16" uppers and NO >16" uppers.
He does not have a legal way to assemble the AR lower.
You can have 100 lowers with no uppers for them, it doesn't have to have a > 16 upper on it to be legal.
I don't see the point you're trying to make as it doesn't relate to what I've outlined above.
Maybe I should have been more clear: a complete AR lower with a stock and no >16" upper in the house, but 2x <16" uppers.
Get a AR lower that is registered as a Pistol to be safe.
Originally Posted By telc:
Originally Posted By andrasik:
Originally Posted By telc:
Originally Posted By andrasik:
Originally Posted By Homeinvader:
Originally Posted By andrasik:
Originally Posted By Gunner1X:
A hypothetical example to further clarify the question -
If you own 1 Registered M16 machine gun lower and 1 AR15 semiauto (complete rifle), can you legally posses 2 short barreled uppers for your M16?
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Yes.
You have a legal way to use all of your uppers.
Now if you had 1 RR M16, 2 short uppers, and 1 complete rifle
lower (and no >16" upper), you'd be in trouble.
There is no issue here actually. The registered MG is your pathway for the legal use of any and all NFA length uppers in your possession. You do not want to actually install any short uppers on a Title I rifle, but there is no CP issue here. A registered MG also protects you from CP with M16 fire control parts, something neither a registered SBR nor a pistol lower will do.
Can you explain further? I've always been taught to understand that the above scenario I listed would be illegal.
He has (in my hypothetical, not IRL):
1x RR M16
1x AR lower with rifle stock, not registered under the NFA
2x <16" uppers and NO >16" uppers.
He does not have a legal way to assemble the AR lower.
You can have 100 lowers with no uppers for them, it doesn't have to have a > 16 upper on it to be legal.
I don't see the point you're trying to make as it doesn't relate to what I've outlined above.
Maybe I should have been more clear: a complete AR lower with a stock and no >16" upper in the house, but 2x <16" uppers.
Get a AR lower that is registered as a Pistol to be safe.
My state doesn't register pistols and receivers are transferred as 'other'. Putting a pistol buffer tube on is GTG though. I'm using that setup right now as I await my stamp for my AR SBR.
I'm just asking Homeinvader to clarify his comments for me. I think it's a pretty clear-cut case, but he's a smart cat and probably knows something I don't.

Originally Posted By telc:
You can have 100 lowers with no uppers for them, it doesn't have to have a > 16 upper on it to be legal.
It does if you have short uppers and not enough long uppers. 100 lowers with no uppers is not the same thing as 100 lowers with 99 20" uppers and one 11.5" upper.
Mere possession of a short upper and a non-NFA lower, both under your control, is constructive possession under the law. The defense to constructive possession is that you have a legal way to assemble the parts you possess; then unless you've actually assembled an illegal configuration, the courts must presume that you haven't and aren't going to.
One of the definitions of a firearm is "a complete firearm in disassembled condition" - which is what makes owning an upper and a lower together possession of a complete firearm, even if they're not assembled.
Originally Posted By andrasik:
Originally Posted By Homeinvader:
Originally Posted By andrasik:
Originally Posted By Gunner1X:
A hypothetical example to further clarify the question -
If you own 1 Registered M16 machine gun lower and 1 AR15 semiauto (complete rifle), can you legally posses 2 short barreled uppers for your M16?
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Yes.
You have a legal way to use all of your uppers.
Now if you had 1 RR M16, 2 short uppers, and 1 complete rifle
lower (and no >16" upper), you'd be in trouble.
There is no issue here actually. The registered MG is your pathway for the legal use of any and all NFA length uppers in your possession. You do not want to actually install any short uppers on a Title I rifle, but there is no CP issue here. A registered MG also protects you from CP with M16 fire control parts, something neither a registered SBR nor a pistol lower will do.
Can you explain further? I've always been taught to understand that the above scenario I listed would be illegal.
He has (in my hypothetical, not IRL):
1x RR M16
1x AR lower with rifle stock, not registered under the NFA
2x <16" uppers and NO >16" uppers.
He does not have a legal way to assemble the AR lower.
Under CP, if there is such a conflict between the legality of parts, you have to have a legal pathway to the use of the NFA part. It's not the Title I lower that is of concern here, it's the NFA length uppers, which do have a legal use on the registered MG. The NFA length uppers, all of them, are now legally associated with the registered MG. The bare Title I lower can remain disassembled in their presence without a CP violation.
It is not a legal musical chairs scenario where you have to actually be able to assemble a legal firearm with the parts available in your control, you simply need to make sure the illegal configuration is not the only configuration. The stripped Title I lower IS a legal configuration here all by itself as long as the uppers can also be used in another legal configuration.
Make sense?