Help with a pistol
I just aquired a reproduction of a civil war revolver. This is my first ever black powder weapon and I know absolutly nothing about these. It says on it L. Pietta .44. I got it from a friend who aquired it from a man who recently passed away. He had a short description written in the case saying it was a 1862 confederate navy reproduction. Its in good condition. My question is can anyone tell me alittle bit about it since I havent found a whole lot on google and also what is it's value? Thx!! Pic to follow when I get home from work
Originally Posted By bso11258:
I just aquired a reproduction of a civil war revolver. This is my first ever black powder weapon and I know absolutly nothing about these. It says on it L. Pietta .44. I got it from a friend who aquired it from a man who recently passed away. He had a short description written in the case saying it was a 1862 confederate navy reproduction. Its in good condition. My question is can anyone tell me alittle bit about it since I havent found a whole lot on google and also what is it's value? Thx!! Pic to follow when I get home from work
Hard to tell you anything without some pics, etc. I have a Pietta .44, but it's the 1858 Remington Army. I've had it for over 20 years, and it's been a very nice shooter.
I'm not sure what an 1862 Confederate Navy IS. I'm guessing it's the "1862 Dance Brothers Revolver" which was produced for the Confederates. It was patterned on (but not an exact copy of) a Colt's Dragoon pistol. Depending on Condition, it's probably worth about $200 on the used market. Maybe a tad more with a motivated buyer. If it's not that, it's probably some kind of Confederate Colt knock-off. If it's really an 1851 Colt knock-off model, it's probably worth $150-$175 used.... yeah, not much, sorry. The good news is they are still very fun to shoot!
A "Confederate Navy (or Army, etc.) is often a manufactuer's euphemism for a brass-framed revolver. The Confederates made a few brass-framed cap and ball revolvers, because they lacked the iron foundries of the North.
I would avoid purchasing ANY brass-framed revolver. They are weaker than their steel-framed counterpart and require the use of a reduced charge. In the .36 this means using 15 to 18 grains of FFFG black powder under a lead ball. In the .44 brass-framed revolver you should use no more than about 25 grains.
The problem lies in the brass frame being unable to withstand the forces of recoil. After a time, the cylinder's rearward forces during recoil will stretch the brass frame, or damage the area of the recoil shield against which the cylinder rests.
Another factor: I've been shooting cap and ball revolvers since about 1970, when I was 15. I've seen many of them over the years, mostly reproductions. Rarely have I seen a reproduction brass-framed revolver that is as well fitted and finished as its steel version. It seems as if the factories rush them through, not taking the time to smooth bores, chambers and moving parts like they do with steel guns.
That's why brass-framed are typically sold for less than steel-framed guns: the quality isn't there.
If you have a brass-framed revolver, it will be a good one to learn the basics. But if later, you decide to get another cap and ball revolver, spend the extra $20 to $30 and get a steel-framed model. Not only is it stronger, and can accommodate full loads of black powder, but it will almost certainly be better made.
Brass-framed revolvers should only be used with black powder (FFG or FFFG grade, with FFFG preferred) or Hodgdon's Pyrodex P black powder substitute. Hodgdon 777, a more powerful propellant intended for strong black powder firearms, is not recommended for brass-framed revolvers. Hodgdon itself says this on its website –– and it has the instruments to measure pressure and the trained people to interpret that data.
Anyone who tells you that Hodgdon 777 is okay in a brass-framed revolver is wrong. Avoid their counsel.
On most cap and ball revolvers, the rammer isn't long enough to seat the ball firmly on the powder, when smaller charges are used. In this case, you need something to take up the space, because leaving a space between the ball and powder can cause pressures to spike and is dangerous. With all black powder firearms, whether you're using black powder or Pyrodex, the projectile must be seated firmly on the powder, or the space must be taken up.
The simplest way to take up this space is, after adding your measured powder, add some corn meal so it comes right up to the mouth of the chamber. Corn meal is compressible. Add the ball and ram it down on the corn meal, which rests over the powder. The corn meal will compress nicely and take up the extra room.
Cream of Wheat is also used, but it doesn't compress so you have to be more exacting about how much you put in the chamber. Corn meal is easier to use
After seating all balls, cover them with Crisco, bacon grease, lard softened with a bit of vegetable oil, beeswax softened with vegetable oil, or commercial black powder greases such as Bore Butter.
This is messy, but effective. There's an easier method, though.
Many people, including myself, use a hard felt, lubricated wad between the ball and powder, with all charges. The lubricated wad keeps the fouling soft and the bore cleaner. It's also easier to put a wad (or two, in lieu of corn meal) on top of the powder. Seat the wad on the powder as a separate operation.
Finally, seat the ball.
For the .44, use .454 inch balls.
For the .36, use a .380-inch diameter ball if you can find them. If not, you'll have to use the .375 inch ball. The .380 inch ball is preferred, however, as it seals more tightly in the chamber and provides a wider bearing band for the rifling to grip.
You'll need either No. 10 or 11 caps. I can't tell you which, because it depends upon the size of the nipples in your cylinder. Buy a tin of each. If the No. 10 won't fully seat on the nipple, go to No. 11.
Don't throw away that unuseable tin of caps, though. They can be used for clearing the ignition channel in each chamber, before you begin loading: snap a cap on each nipple before you begin loading, to blow any crud or dust out of the ignition channel, and to dry the chamber of oil or grease. I usually do this twice, because the spark of one cap is seldom sufficient to fully dry an oiled chamber.
All chambers cleared with a cap or two, add powder to one chamber. Then, if you are using a felt wad, add the felt wad and seat it firmly against the powder with the rammer. If it doesn't reach far enough for a firm compression, add another felt wad. Seat the wad(s) firmly on the powder. Do this for all chambers. The wads seated firmly, begin seating a lead ball in each chamber. It too must seat firmly on the felt wad.
If you use a lubricated felt wad, such as those sold by Ox Yoke as the Wonder Wad, there is no need to put grease over the ball.
All balls seated, pinch each cap into an elliptical shape and slip it over the cone of the nipple, at the rear of the cylinder. Pinching the caps into an elliptical shape ensures that it has a certain spring tension that will keep it from falling off the nipple during handling or recoil.
You're now ready to fire.
Between the nipples you'll see a raised teat on the Colt, or a cutout on the Remington. This is your safety. Gently rotate the cylinder until you can rest the notch in the Colt's hammer nose over that teat, or the nose of the Remington in that cutout. This is not a particularly safe safety, as a blow to the cylinder can force it to rotate sidways and bring a live cap (and loaded chamber) under the hammer. Many folks only load 5 chambers in their six-shooter, or 4 chambers in their five-shooter, and put th hammer down on the empty chamber.
For beginners, this is a particularly good practice. I recommend. it.
These revolvers are not toys! Millions have been killed with them, so treat them as you would any modern firearm.
The Colt-designed revolvers typically hit high, as much as 12 inches above the target at 25 yards. This is how the originals shot too, because they were designed to augment the rifle in combat out to 100 yards. Most Colt designs hit dead-on at 80 to 100 yards.
The Remington reproductions may shoot low or high. It depends on the manufacturer and whether they were made in the past 10 years or longer. The older versions tend to hit low because their front sight is lower on the barrel. In the past 10 years or so, manufacturers have become smarter and offer the Remington reproduction with a tall front sight, so you can file it down to meet point of impact.
Immediately after shooting, clean the revolver with soapy water. Black powder and Pyrodex are not oil-soluble, but are water soluble, so modern gun cleaners won't work.
Don't immerse the entire gun in water. Simply wipe out fouling from inside and around the frame with a damp cloth, followed by a dry cloth when you've got it all.
Use a nipple wrench to remove the nipples from the cylinder. Clean the cyliknder's chambers with a patch and cotton swabs. A short, nylon or bristle (never metal) brush will get into the cutouts at the back of the cylinder, where the nipples are screwed into. It's easiest to clean the cylinder immersed in soapy water. Shove a round toothpick into the cone of each nipple, for a handle, and give them a good scrubbing too.
With the Colt design, you can remove the entire barrel assembly, remove the loading lever assembly, and plunge the barrel into hot, soapy water for a good scrubbing with bore brush (.40 caliber for the .36, .45 for the .44). Rinse in hot water under the tap, shake off excess, Run a couple of dry patches through the bore to remove any drops. Place the parts in a shallow pan. Put the pan in the oven, crack the oven door a bit and set it to its lowest setting, typicallyi 150 to 175 degrees.
Leave the barrel assembly it in the oven for 15 or 20 minutes. This will drive out any moisture.
DO NOT put the frame assembly in the oven unless you have removed its wooden grips.
Eventually, you' ll have to completely disassemble the revolver down to its last screw, scrub it thoroughly, and dry it in the oven. Fouling will build up over successive shooting sessions and hinder the movement of parts.
For now, you can probably get by with a quick clean.
Once dry, and while still warm, give the parts a good coating of canola or olive oil. Do not use petroleum greases or oils. Such petroleum products have a bad habit of combining with black powder to create a hard, tarry fouling. Vegetable oil will keep your revolver protected in all but the dampest climates.
Put plenty of oil on all parts and let them soak it up for a few days, then wipe away the remainder and reassemble.
Put a drop of oil on the threads of each nipple, for easier removal later.
So cleaned, a cap and ball revolver will last for decades.
Neglect it, and it won't last a year.
