Need to buy a BP rifle for Scouting events...I know very little

I need to buy a simple iron sigheted black powder rifle for Scouting events. I know very little about BP firearms.

I want to walk into a local shop/store and purchase a rifle so I can let our range officers at a Scout Camporee use it for a day...I have about 1.5 weeks.
I'll keep the rifle afterwards and they will provide me the training on how to use...They will provide the powder and balls.

Can I get some some guidance on what to buy? I'd like to keep it around $300/$400 if I can. We have several stores in Porkland that carry BP rifles so I can shop a little...guess I'm looking for 1) lenght of barrel?, 2) percussion, 3) simple and reliable....something I can add a scope to later if I want...

I appreciate the help and guidance.

Hmmm..... Perhaps maybe a few questions are in order...

Since you specifically mentioned "balls" & "percussion" in your post, I'm going to assume you are not looking for a black powder "cartridge"-firing rifle... (like a BP lever-action, ect.) or a modern In-line or break-action style BP rifle (like a CVA), but rather something more along the lines of a traditional Hawkins-type black powder rifle? (maybe like this?:Cabela's Traditional Halkins Rifle)

Secondly, Do the range officers already have the powder & balls to give you??? ....If so -you should first find out what type & caliber (Powder & Ball) they are providing before going out and making your purchase as some rifles are better suited to certain types of powders than others, and of course - the rifles are also sold in a number of different calibers themselves...(.50, .54, .58, ect.)

Thirdly, in regards to barrel length... for the most part, it depends on the range requirements... (How far are the scouts going to be required to shoot? 0-15 yds? 100 yds+? How far do you personally need it to shoot?, ect.) ...and then on the weight requirements. (The longer the barrel, the heavier the gun - and thus the more difficult (unwieldy?) it may be for a young scout to effectively operate.)

Hope this helps ya...

thank you FIDiveCop71...

Here is some more info...

.50 caliber. We'll load with 45-50 grains for shooting targets or with Scouts. 50 ft targets. I'm told I can push it up to 100 for hunting deer later. I will most likely use it for fun...target shooting during the year and loan to range masters for Scout events.

We don’t use black powder cartridges – I am looking at the Hawkins Woodsmen offered at Muzzel Loading and more.
He is a local guy. I also need info on this bit of info I read: many Black Powder rifles have a double trigger system – set trigger, then firing trigger.
What do I need to know about this?

Powder: According to our RM, who is the experienced one, coming from the Camp Meriwether group, they are all traditional purists, so Black. Powder is all they use, however my RM did tell me that much like other things in life, different people have different preferences – some for the more modern gun powders.

In terms of the projectiles – we shoot the .50 caliber round balls, but I understand there are conical bullets for black powder – but I'd best ask the fellow selling me the gun what its capabilities and options for projectiles are.

Finally, barrel length – I'll have to feel a few to see how they handle. I'll take my 14-year-old but would appreciate any recommendations from the forum on what I should look for in length.

Bob at Muzzleloading and More is a good guy, I've bought quite a few things from him.

The set triggers do take a bit of getting used to, but are pretty nice once you do. Pull the back trigger first to set them, then just barely touch the front one and it goes bang.

I've got a Lyman great plains rifle that shoots great, and my father in law has a Traditions Tennessee rifle, which is a great little carbine with a very stubby barrel. I love how the Tennessee handles, but loading it is a bit of a pain since I'm 6'4" and it barely comes up past my knees.

The accessories will add up though. You need a possibles bag to hold all your gear, a powder horn, a powder measure, a ball starter, patches, lube, balls, and powder. 50 grains in a 50 isn't bad at all recoil wise.

I'd go with a Lyman or Thompson Center side lock percussion gun.

The longer barrel is going to be heavy for younger scouts to shoot.

Something like this:

http://www.impactguns.com/store/011516631404.html
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=293698



The Thompson will be more traditional, but more expensive.

http://www.impactguns.com/store/090161013711.html

And remember the guide to safe scouting says no kits unless they have been approved by a licensed gun smith.

Well I met Bob at Muzzle Loaders and More...Great guy...

Came home with a Traditions Hawkins Muzzle loader rifle.
Bob spent about 1.5 hours with me and made sure I understood everything. He went through rifle and lubed a few points, put on a new nipple and sold me a box of accesories...they do add up...but I have enough to go out and give it a try.

Pictures soon...

Can I run a patch with a little Break Free LP (same as CLP without the "clean") and apply to the outside lightly also before I place this in my safe.
Just want a real light protectant for now.

Thanks

Let me offer you a bit of a different approach. Do you have any black powder clubs in the area? Talk with them and see if the would be interested in having a event a couple days a year for Scouts. The club I shoot at in IL does this, a few of the members bring their spare muzzle loaders for the kids to try and it goes over very well.

But to answer your question directly, start out on the used rack, you can still find a used Hawken or similar within your price range.. A 45cal would be your best bet, but a 50 with mild loads would be ok as well..

Definitely get a percussion. Much easier to use and better/ more reliable ignition.

Any caliber will do. .45 - 50- 54. Just use a light powder charge to keep the recoil down.

Hit the want ads. You can usually find an off brand BP gun for <$300.

You can use any good gun oil on the outside of the barrel with no problems. What you do not want to do is use any petroleum product in the bore. It does not play well with black powder and causes a gummy mess that is difficult to clean.
When you do clean it just use water. Be sure to dry it after and use alcohol on a patch to be sure it's dry. They make protectants for the bore specifically for muzzleloaders. If it is going to be stored for a long time you can use gun oil. Just be sure to completely remove it before shooting.

It help sometimes to wipe the bore between shots to keep the fouling to a minimum. Depending on the quality of the bore you may get 10-15 shots fired before needing to clean the bore. Usually a wet patch will clean it.

There are some good muzzleloading forums around. I can IM one to you if you are interested.

Jim

In all but my chunk guns I use a lube patch on top of the ball between shots, I pretty much keep reusing the same one until it starts to wear through, I week ago Saturday at a match, I shot 36 or 37 (30 record and some sighters) shots with no misfires or fouling..

Too much patch lube is on of the biggest contributors of bore fouling. Humidity is another.. after that you can start getting into flaws with individual guns

On top of the ball If you swab the bore before your next load, you have a good chance of clogging up your touch hole or powder drum..

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