Do I got everything do shoot this musket? (pics)

Ok, I got a kentucky rifle, .45 cal, percussion.

Ready to go shoot it, but want to make sure I am squared away on the stuff needed to fire it before I go purchase this stuff

Pyrodex, FFG
.440 balls
.010 patches
bore butter
And I'm not sure about the caps. I keep hearing #11, but then others say to buy "musket caps". I don't really understand the difference. Not sure what would work best on this rifle.

FFG powder is the right kind correct? I'm thinking 50gr for this thing.

Use:
http://www.blackhorn209.com/home

Big Time Edit:
da-da-damn, I meant to add before hitting Submit.

Sorry to kevthebassman... but, especially to the OP and BP newbs.

Thank you, kevthebassman, for catching my dangerous failure in an attempt at humor.
Never would want one of our BP brothers to look like Frank Langella in The Box.

number 11 not musket caps..

Most likely true.

I've never seen a Kentucky rifle come with a nipple for musket caps, everyone I have seen took a #11 cap. Musket caps are larger and have a flange around the opening, probably to ease the removal of the expended cap. Musket caps also have more priming compound and fire hotter.

Now there is a slight possibility that someone put a musket nipple on a Kentucky rifle, in which case you would either need to get a nipple for #11 caps or get musket caps.

Musket Cap:



#11 caps:



And don't take this the wrong way, If you could post a picture of your nipple or it's measurements we could probably tell you what size cap you need.

First off use real Black powder, I use Goex FFg for my rifles. I wouldn't use that bore butter on this type rifle. Now theres tools you should have and I'll try to list what you should have.

Patch Puller
Ball Puller
Powder Measurer
Ball Starter
Powder Horn, not nessarry but something other than can to hold your powder is nice
Range Rod, not nessarry but nice as you wont ruin your wooden rod and also aids in cleaning
Cap Loader

That should help you get started, I'm sure there maybe a few tools I missed but this stuff will help .

Are you joking? I certainly hope so.

Blackhorn 209 has the only suitable ignition source right in the name. 209 shotgun primers in a Godforsaken inline contraption is the only application for that powder.

Fmkenner has started you down the right path for your rifle. The only thing I would recommend different would be to use FFFg Goes in place of FFg. You'll get a little less/finer fouling, and a bit more oomph out of the same amount of powder. FFFg is absolutely safe to use in your rifle. I've run dozens of pounds of it through my .54 flintlock, and my "knock 'em dead" load is a hefty 110 grains. I've got a slow twist barrel with deep grooves especially for shooting patched round ball, and I've found that the hotter I stoke the fire, the more accurate my rifle gets. I did load development up to 150 grains and settled on 110 grains as the point of diminishing returns. Goex has a list of distributors on their website here. You can contact the distributor closest to you and find out from them who your closest retailer is. Powder Inc. is the best online retailer for powder. Hazmat makes shipping expensive, but the more powder you buy the less cost there is. I'm sure if you post in your hometown forum here or at a local shooting range you will find someone willing to split a case with you.

While I'm on the subject of load development, I'll tell you a thing or two about it. First of all, if you want to get the very best out of your rifle, it is an absolute necessity. Secondly, it will cost you time and money. Third, and most important, is that once you have done it, you will be very familiar with your rifle and it's likes and dislikes. It is well worth it. More about load development later.

To develop a proper load, you'll need to know a thing or two about your rifle: What size nipple do you actually have? #11 is the most common. Is your rifle a slow twist (1:60 to 1:72 are most common slow twist) with deep groove rifling especially for patched round ball, or a medium twist (1:48 is most common) for both round ball and bullet, or a fast twist (1:28 is common) with shallow rifling just for sabot and bullet. Knowing that will help you pick the projectile that is best suited to your rifle. Manufacturer websites can generally help you find that out. Twist rates you can pick out with a patch on a cleaning jag. Say you've got a 35 inch barrel. If you've got 1:70 twist rifling, (that means one complete revolution per 70 inches of barrel) the handle on your cleaning rod will make one half of a turn from breech to muzzle as you pull it out. 1:48 will make more than half but less than one full turn before the end of the barrel, (or 1/2 turn per 24 inches of barrel) and 1:28 will make one full turn in 28 inches of barrel.

Once you've got that figured out, make a trip to the biggest sporting goods store you have handy for a good selection of black powder items. Several online retailers also have extensive selections as well. Fmkenner has a pretty good list but I'll toss in my two cents as well.

First, you need appropriate projectiles for your particular twist rate. Slow twist is limited strictly to patched round ball. A good starting point for a .45 is a .440 round ball. If you've got a gun more suited to bullets, there is a wide variety available but I'm afraid I'm not much help in that area so I'll stick to what I know, which is the patched round ball.

Then, you'll need patches. Buy a selection. I find it easier and more consistent to buy the pre-lubed patches. It is cheaper and more authentic (if that's what you're going for) to roll your own patches, but I'll leave that for someone else to explain. Any store worth it's salt ought to have several different types available, if they don't order them online. Buy an assortment from .010, to .020. You can commonly find .015 and .018. This is every bit as important as finding the proper powder charge, so don't skimp.

Powder can be covered in one word: Goex. Goex is the end-all, be-all for 95% of all black powder shooting. (the other 5% demands Swiss powder, and they pay a premium for it) I prefer 3F. If you want you can try 2F, but I've been down that road and settled on 3F. Real black powder will give you more consistent and easier ignition, fewer misfires and hangfires, a longer shelf life, and a probably a cheaper cost if you can find it locally. In addition, it is no more corrosive than 777 or pyrodex or any other substitute I have ever tried. I shoot in the summertime in Missouri with 90% humidity, so I know a thing or two about powder and corrosion. Anyone who tells you different than that right there is either stupid, hasn't tried it, or they're selling you something, period. All sidelock muzzleloaders need cleaning shortly after you shoot or you are going to have a mess on your hands. They all need cleaning between shots if you are trying to sight in or work up a load. There are no short cuts. Accept it as a fact of life or find a hobby that doesn't involve black powder.

In addition, you'll want a variety of different caps. Try different brands. CCI caps tend to fit tighter, and that can be what some nipples need. Other nipples are oversized and CCI caps can cause misfires due to not being fully seated. Remington caps are a little bigger in my experience and may work better on larger nipples. It's been a while since I've messed with a percussion gun, so that may have changed since then. Bottom line, buy a few different kinds and see how they work for you. You'll find a favorite brand.

That covers the main elements. Next is the miscellaneous BS you need to keep and maintain your rifle and get the best from it, as well as some pure convenience items.

Cleaning: You NEED a range rod. It'd ruin your whole trip if you broke your wooden ramrod. It'd spoil your whole weekend if you broke your wooden ramrod and stabbed yourself in the hand with it. Most stores carry some kind of cleaning rod especially for muzzleloaders. Buy one and use it.

Of course you also need a cleaning jag and nice thick cleaning patches. If you're patching between shots, as you should do if doing anything other than plinking, or even just every 2 or 3 shots, you should never need a brush. I couldn't even tell you if I have one in my range box, it's been that long since I've used one.

As for a cleaning solution, I use windex. It's a helluva lot cheaper than the crap they sell in the sporting goods section, and works every bit as good. Make sure you clean thoroughly, patches should come out with little or no gray in a brand new barrel. Follow it up with a quality gun oil after you're done shooting.

A powder flask, nipple pick, nipple wrench, cap holder, short starter (I like the cheapie plastic one, as it does not damage the ball on loading) a good quality powder measure graduated in 5 grain increments from say 20 to 100 grains, speed loaders are good for hunting, and of course a pouch or bag of some kind for your accoutrements is nice to have. I also swear by a product from Cabela's called the C02 load discharger. When you dryball (that is, load a ball without loading powder!) which you eventually will do, this thing is wonderful. It is also good for getting the load out of your barrel without firing, though you should still give your rifle a cleaning to make sure all the powder is out before loading again. Make sure you are pointing your rifle in a safe direction when you use this thing though. I put a dent in a 2X4 target stand at 25 yards once when discharging a particularly stuck ball!

That ought to just about cover your shopping trip. I'm sure I've left a few things out.

Once the shopping is done, it's time to go to the range and work up a load. The range right before deer season is a miserable time to try to work up a load. You need space, time, and patience, and all three run short in the few weeks a year when most hunters dust off their deer rifles to fire their annual three shots.

You need a few quiet afternoons at the range to do this properly. You're going to want to try different patch thicknesses (or bullet types, if that is what your rifle dictates you use) and powder charges. Clean between each shot. Squeaky clean isn't necessary, but I'd run at least one wet patch and at least one dry patch. The cleaner your barrel is after each shot, the more consistent your rifle will be, and consistency translates to accuracy. I'm not very familiar with .45's, but I would think that 40 grains would be a good starting point for load development, depending on what you plan to do with your rifle (hunt, target shoot, etc) you can work your way up from there. I probably wouldn't go much higher than what the instructions that came with your rifle say for a max load. Work your way up in 5 grain increments, shooting 5 shots with each patch thickness. Record your results. You'll know when you're getting on the right track.

Generally speaking, the tighter the patch/ball fit, the fewer gasses will pass by, and that means better accuracy. In my .54 flinter, I use a .530 ball and a .020 patch. I actually have to start this load with a good whack on the short starter with a rubber mallet. This load gives me wonderful accuracy and high velocity. In my speedloaders for hunting reloads, I carry a thinner patch for easier reloading, but this is the load I start my day with. I only plan on needing one shot.

In addition to preventing gas blow-by, a thicker patch reduces or eliminates the chances of the rifling cutting the patch on loading or firing, and reduces or eliminates the chances of gas blowing out the back of the patch and getting at the ball. When you're working up your loads, you want to find your fired patches (generally don't make it farther than 10 yards) and "read" the patch. If it is burnt through or torn where it contacts the rifling your patch isn't thick enough. Every patch will be frayed around the edges from firing, but the perfect patch will almost look good enough that you could reload it and fire it a second time.

If your rifle is a well made one with a good trigger, once you find the load it prefers it should shoot better than you can see with open sights. I get baseball sized groups at 100 yards with my .54. At 50 my eyes are better and I can almost make them go through one big hole.

On a side note, if you are carrying your caplock muzzleloader in the deer woods and absolutely need it to fire on the first try, there are a couple of extra things you can do to decrease the chances for a misfire. The first is to flush out any gun oil left from storage with a good cleaning with windex or even alcohol. The second, is after you've loaded your rifle, unscrew your nipple and dribble a few extra grains of powder into the flash channel. You don't want to fill it all the way, or you may get a fuse effect and a delay, you just want a few down in there to make 100% sure that the fire from that cap is going to make it's way down into the main charge. Third, once you've gotten to your hunting area and can point your rifle in a safe direction, if you have had any problems with your caps not seating completely flush with the face of the nipple, you can very gently let the hammer down on the cap, then firmly but carefully press the hammer onto the cap to be sure it is seated.

Anyway, it's getting late and this post has gotten totally out of hand. If you've got any other questions feel free to post them up and I'll answer as best I can.

There's a chart somewhere that shows how much powder to measure for each calibur, but I can't find it. Kinda important.

My 2 cents. Use the Windex with the Vinegar in it, not the amonia

Best recommendation is to contact the manufacture or your rifle and see what they recommend for a powder charge.

After that they old rule of thumb is 1 gr of powder for every .01" of diameter. So a .45 Cal rifle would get 45 grains of powder. That is a good safe starting point, many modern muzzle loaders can handle twice that with some models of in-lines able to handle 3 times. But if you don't know play it safe and stick with the 1 gr for every .01" rule. That makes a nice soft shooting target load anyways.

Kevthebassman its nice to see someone like your self that has the interest like you seem to have in black powder. My father uses FFFG in his rifles too as he says they also clean better. I just have alot of FFG right now and need to use up first. Now as pre-lubed patches I'm not a fan at all. I do it the old fashion way, stick the patch in your mouth while you charge your rifle. Thats the best way IMO. I dont like to leave that lube in the barrel, just oil. Now cleaning I would suggest boiling water and put in a large bucket with one squirt of mild dish soap like Dawn or something. Put breech end in hot water, without the nipple, holding the barrel with a rag. Now use your range rod with a cleaning patch on your jag and work it up and down. The barrel will get very hot but this works best to get black powder off. Let dry and clean then oil as usual. Now at the range I like to use Bore Cleaner No.13, here.
Cleans real nice. The guys in my club shoots Flintlocks and what they use to clean at the range is WD-40 as its quicker. They just make sure its nice and dry brfore shooting again.
Other tools I forgot:
Jag
Nipple Pick
Pan Primer- This is used to prime pans in Flintlocks but I also use it when I cant get my nipple to touch off the powder. Pull nipple off put alittle
powder in hole then put nipple back on. This should push your ball out if you forget to charge before you put ball in, instead of
pulling it. Pan Primer
Nipple Wrench
Spare Nipple

I know it seems like alot but really its alot of fun, very simple design. Theres alot of ppl who would be glad to give advise if you need it. IM or e-mail me also and I'll be glad to give you my .02 worth.

+1

my camera isn't good enough to get a non-fuzzy pic up close. I just know the nipple is cone-shaped. There is a large taper between the hole in the top and the bottom. I looked at a #11 nipple today and it looked different. Should I just take the nipple with me when I buy caps?

That way you know for sure.

Couldn't hurt to take your nipple in with you when you buy caps. There are some #11 nipples that have a different shape to them than others, I think the one I am thinking of is called the "Hot Shot" nipple, it has a longer nipple which is vented to blow the old cap off. A #11 cap is going to be about 1/8th or so inch wide, while a musket cap is quite a bit bigger.



I have a buddy who runs his patches with spit like that. I've done it before, can't say I like the taste of the patches, and that's from someone who can happily chaw away on Red Man! Aside from that it's fine for plinking, but before shooting I flush all the oil out of my barrel, and I don't like the idea of a wet patch sitting on unprotected steel while I sit in a deer stand. Another thing that makes me shy from it for general use is consistency. I want my shot to hit the same place whether I fire it 1 minute, 1 hour, or 1 day after loading. A spit patch will dry out, and provide less lube as it dries.

All of this is just one man's opinion, worth what you paid for it.

Double tap!

That is problably true as I plan on shooting it right away. It was just the way dad taught me. He was so into the traditional way. I would use oiled patches the way you put it but would stay away from bore butter in my tradtional rifles. Some of the guys in my club what they do when they fire their flintlocks is they have a long cloth hangin, they cut as they go and spit patch. They do shoot alot so they are quicker from shot to shot. All traditional and they dress the part too. Alot of old timers, very knowlegable, and good gunsmiths as they build there own flintlocks. I'm building one too but dont have the time that those guys do.

Here are pics of the nipple. Any clue what size caps?

Looks like #11 to my eye.

I'd say the same to my uncalibrated eyeball.

Go check these guys out, I lurk over there. http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/fusionbb.php


You know you're doing it right when you get one of these:



Sounds like you have a good set-up there though, have fun with it. Caplocks are best as far as the learning curve on muzzleloading. Keep us posted!

Yep, thats what Ive been using for a few years now.....

And I do not recommend bore butter. My Flinter would choke at about 6 shots with bore butter. Spit patches or deer tallow is all I use now.

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