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 Mauser K98 sporter refurbish, am I nuts? EDIT* I am nuts
Wendelsnatch  [Member]
3/16/2012 4:37:07 PM
I looked at a K98 recently that has been sporterized. Rifle is a 1942 BNZ marked with a couple visable eagles (there may be more, just looked at it breifly). Bolt and receiver are matching. Price is $150. Am I out of my mind thinking about buying it in an attempt to refurbish it with a correct stock? What would I need for the refurb? Obviously stock (top and bottom), front stock band with the bayonete holder, proper buttplate. and...? How dificult and costly would this endevor be? I imagine you cant just slap the receiver and barrel into a new stock and call it good, instead have to bed it properly. Doing that has me mildly concerned as to difficulty. Thoughts?
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centralflguns  [Member]
3/16/2012 4:45:44 PM
I collect WW11 rifles and an unsportnerized K98 with the nazi eagles is worth about $ 600 so you have plenty of money to put it back into WW11 original. Now the key is it might take a while to find some of the original parts.
jdubya87  [Team Member]
3/16/2012 5:17:26 PM
What about making it complete? Say I find one that's had the stock chopped off and the barrel cut down. I know of a source for surplus NOS military contour barrels, in 7.62. Does boyd's or someone similar make repro stocks? Where could you find the front sight? Numrich?
1srelluc  [Team Member]
3/17/2012 7:05:33 AM
Unless you have on-hand parts the view may not be worth the climb for a rescue. That said at $150 OTD you could make $$$ on it by parting it out if the barreled action and bolt has not been dinked with when Bubba messed with it.

Given those parts are still OK you could profit at leat $100.00 on it with a part-out. You would be better off buying you a nice RC K98 if you want a K98 in the $350-$385.00 range. I got $385.00 for the last two RCs I sold. Yugo capture K98s can be found for $100 cheaper but all marking are usually scrubbed.

All matching except bolt K98s are 700+ depending on condition/code. All matching 900+ depending on same. You need deep pockets to play the matching K98 game.
karlvin08  [Member]
3/17/2012 9:33:42 AM
I will play devil's advocate for a bit here. I am all for keeping C&R rifles intact when they are complete or just need 1 or 2 small things to be complete. However, if they have already been sporterized I generally like to keep them that way. I have a few mausersthat are sporterized, not bubba'd but actually done by a smith, and in my opinion done well. Right now I have one being made into a .220 swift, another sitting at my smiths waiting to decide which direction to go, and another in 30-06 ready to be sent to him for something, we are not sure what yet. It was sporterized in likely the '50s by someone who did a very nice job. In my mind, one such as it that was done long ago has as much history with it as a hunting rifle as it does a battle rifle. It will probably just get freshened up with a new blue job, and possibly a new stock carved if the one on it doesn't clean up well. It has a lyman receiver sight, and looks like something that a person cared for and used plenty to get deer or whatever type of game. To me since some of the markings have been polished off of them, even if the numbers are still there and match, it will never be "original" again, so it is time to embrace what it has become. I also have a 1917 that has been more of what I would call bubba'd than sporterized, it is going to be converted to .375 H&H as soon as the barrel comes in since from what I have seen for a good while they were prized safari rifles.

I do feel it is a sin to modify an original specimen, but if it has already been done, personally I don't see it as a bad thing to make it fit your needs. I know I am probably in the minority here. Unless you are wiring with some ultra rare variant, I think you can make a useful tool that is worth nearly as much, and in a few cases even more than what an unmodified rifle would bring. My uncle currently has it, but growing up I used to shoot my grandfathers 30-40 krag that had been sporterized sometime in the late '40s or early '50s when he and his brothers bought some at the hardware store for a few bucks and had a family friend who was a gunsmith do the work, that rifle means more to me, and has a higher value to me than any other Krag rifle ever could, and I am hoping that my sporterized mausers hold the same value to my son in the future.
cougar69  [Member]
3/17/2012 11:23:29 PM
Originally Posted By karlvin08:
I will play devil's advocate for a bit here. I am all for keeping C&R rifles intact when they are complete or just need 1 or 2 small things to be complete. However, if they have already been sporterized I generally like to keep them that way. I have a few mausersthat are sporterized, not bubba'd but actually done by a smith, and in my opinion done well. Right now I have one being made into a .220 swift, another sitting at my smiths waiting to decide which direction to go, and another in 30-06 ready to be sent to him for something, we are not sure what yet. It was sporterized in likely the '50s by someone who did a very nice job. In my mind, one such as it that was done long ago has as much history with it as a hunting rifle as it does a battle rifle. It will probably just get freshened up with a new blue job, and possibly a new stock carved if the one on it doesn't clean up well. It has a lyman receiver sight, and looks like something that a person cared for and used plenty to get deer or whatever type of game. To me since some of the markings have been polished off of them, even if the numbers are still there and match, it will never be "original" again, so it is time to embrace what it has become. I also have a 1917 that has been more of what I would call bubba'd than sporterized, it is going to be converted to .375 H&H as soon as the barrel comes in since from what I have seen for a good while they were prized safari rifles.

I do feel it is a sin to modify an original specimen, but if it has already been done, personally I don't see it as a bad thing to make it fit your needs. I know I am probably in the minority here. Unless you are wiring with some ultra rare variant, I think you can make a useful tool that is worth nearly as much, and in a few cases even more than what an unmodified rifle would bring. My uncle currently has it, but growing up I used to shoot my grandfathers 30-40 krag that had been sporterized sometime in the late '40s or early '50s when he and his brothers bought some at the hardware store for a few bucks and had a family friend who was a gunsmith do the work, that rifle means more to me, and has a higher value to me than any other Krag rifle ever could, and I am hoping that my sporterized mausers hold the same value to my son in the future.


I`m with you on this. You have a very good out look on rifles that was sporterize correctly.

Jerret_S  [Member]
3/18/2012 2:42:03 AM
I would do it for $150 provided the receiver hasn't been drilled and the bolt is original style. If the barrel was cut order a .308 barrel that is a k98 style.
advntrjnky  [Member]
3/18/2012 10:31:51 AM
IMHO these types of projects are a great adventure! However, if you go into it asking about "money" it's probably not the correct type of project for you. Usually they take so long to complete you never really get a sense for the total cost (which is probably for the best). if you just want to make a "shooter" out of it, patience can save a bunch of money. I say do it and enjoy, because "value" is far more than just money spent or recouped.

advntrjnky
SJetwrench  [Member]
3/18/2012 5:58:57 PM
If the barrel has not been cut down and no aftermarket sights installed simlpy go to R guns websight and for $ 110 appx. you can get a stock set. Sarco or others will have the front sight hood, and also the sling and cleaning gear.
This is what I did with mine.
Wendelsnatch  [Member]
3/19/2012 7:23:58 AM
Barrel had not been cut down and both the sight and sight hood were there. It may have been reblued, or it may be that whoever varnished the stock was super sloppy and varnished the receiver, floorplate, etc. also. It seems that R Guns no longer has mauser stocks in stock. I thik I will go back and take a better look at it. Pull the bolt and look at the bore and if that is good I will buy and start a project.
Wendelsnatch  [Member]
3/20/2012 12:17:04 PM
So I picked up the rifle, $150 out the door. The whole rifle was definitly varnished or polyed, metal and all. So my million dollar question would be how do I get this varnish/whatever off the metal parts? I definitly dont want to damage the original finish underneath.
xwarp  [Team Member]
3/20/2012 1:58:02 PM
get a can of paint stripper. i doubt that it will affect the bluing.
bigstick61  [Team Member]
3/20/2012 2:25:22 PM
I think it's best left as a sporter. Mausers do make good sporters and obviously if you have a sporterized rifle in hand you do not need to sporterize a rifle still in its military configuration.
cougar69  [Member]
3/20/2012 9:28:03 PM
Originally Posted By Wendelsnatch:
So I picked up the rifle, $150 out the door. The whole rifle was definitly varnished or polyed, metal and all. So my million dollar question would be how do I get this varnish/whatever off the metal parts? I definitly dont want to damage the original finish underneath.



If the paint-varnish remover doesn`t work, go to Lowes or Home Depot & get a quart of MEK. It won`t harm the metal either.
Wendelsnatch  [Member]
3/21/2012 8:22:57 AM
Well, I tried mineral spirits on some of the small parts. That definitly didnt have enough umph, so tonight I will get some paint stripper and give that a try. Also ran into a snag with the rear action screw. I cant for the life of me get it loose. The front screw was a bear, but I finally got it. I half expect that the threads may have varnish on them glueing it in place. I am contemplating drilling the screw out and getting a new one, but I am open to other sugestions on how to get it out.
karlvin08  [Member]
3/21/2012 4:34:35 PM
I have had excellent luck with citri-strip sold at walmart and most anywhere that sells paint. Personally I feel that the gel stuff is better to work with than the aerosol kind, both work well, but the spray can gets all over the place.
karlvin08  [Member]
3/21/2012 8:09:40 PM
Forgot to mention I have seen some bubba'd guns that as the stock dries and collapses from being tightened by a gorilla, the rear action screw will stick up into the bolt raceway just enough to catch the bolt. Some people must have figured that rather than put a steel pillar in the stock to tighten onto, or to file a thread or two off the end of the screw that a "better" solution was to been the end of the screw over with a hammer and punch. It isn't very common to see, but when you do encounter it the screw can be darn near impossible to get out with just a screw driver.
xwarp  [Team Member]
3/21/2012 8:13:40 PM
Originally Posted By Wendelsnatch:
So I picked up the rifle, $150 out the door. The whole rifle was definitly varnished or polyed, metal and all. So my million dollar question would be how do I get this varnish/whatever off the metal parts? I definitly dont want to damage the original finish underneath.


pictures ....
pics aren't loading!
Wendelsnatch  [Member]
3/21/2012 11:18:53 PM
Originally Posted By xwarp:
Originally Posted By Wendelsnatch:
So I picked up the rifle, $150 out the door. The whole rifle was definitly varnished or polyed, metal and all. So my million dollar question would be how do I get this varnish/whatever off the metal parts? I definitly dont want to damage the original finish underneath.


pictures ....
pics aren't loading!


Ok, an update! Paint stripper worked like a charm! It pulls the varnish off in like 30 seconds... a great releif. I took a few picks but the digital camera is a Sony which has some sort of weird proprietary cable that I dont know where my wife has placed so I am going to try and post pics as soon as I can. The saga of the rear screw has continued. I had a friend over who is rugged enough to literally bend rebar and even he couldnt turn the screw and broke a couple of my screwdrivers trying. The end of the screw at the bolt end dosnt look messed with so I dont think it has been bent/staked so I am still at a loss as to why it is in there so tight. Progress at a standstill until this screw issue is resolved.
Wendelsnatch  [Member]
3/22/2012 8:17:40 PM
Ok, some pics. Just a few because tiny pic is going super slow for me tonight.



Blitzkreig  [Member]
3/22/2012 10:25:53 PM
Doesn't look reblued to me from the few pics. I saved a DOU43 that matched other than the bolt but, had a horribly abused original stock. BNZ's are rarer and a good project gun. I'd try putting heat or cold to the screw to see if you can break it loose. You might also try putting a few drops of kroil around it and letting it soak down.

good luck
Wendelsnatch  [Member]
3/27/2012 7:31:32 PM
Ok, Some more pics. I broke down the rifle and started cleaning the varnish off. It was all over everything, even the bolt peices. I am still working on the barrel and receiver but here are all the small parts of the bolt, the rear barrel band, floor plate, and magazine/trigger guard.







Now for some questions. Every part looks to be matching having the whole # of 9485 or the last 2 digits 85. Now on the receiver and the bolt at the bolt handle there is 9485 with a K underneath. Is that the actual serial # 9485K?

Also on nearly every part there is a little eagle stamp with either a 77 under it or a WaA77. Am I correct in assuming this is an inspection stamp?

Another oddity is that I cant seem to find a serial # on the barrel. It also has a different "inspection Stamp"? of WaA823. Is this a sign of a replacement barrel, or is it normal for the barrel to not be serialized?

Now on the parts I need to bring it back to correct configuration. Obviously I need the stock, and I believe I need one with a cupped buttplate? Most of the stocks I have seen for sale come with the buttplate and bayonett lug so I will not count them as needed parts. I also need a cleaning rod but am unsure what to look for to be correct. Just length? Lastly I would need the front barrel band, but also do not know which version is correct for my rifle.
xwarp  [Team Member]
3/27/2012 8:39:11 PM
you got a GREAT deal on that. let me know if you decide to sell!

waa77 is the inspection stamp, i believe for steyr at that time. yes, k is part of the serial which matches the receiver and no, not all barrels had serial stamped on them.

you will need a milled front "h" band.

in regards to the barrel, post pics of the collar just outside the receiver. it appears that the barrel may have been replaced as i don't see 7.9x on top.
Clockwork138  [Member]
3/27/2012 8:51:36 PM
Depending on manufacturer, K98ks had either the barrel or the receiver serialized. Steyr-Daimlers(bnz) had serialized receivers. Are you sure the proof on the barrel isn't WaA623? That's Steyr-Daimler and would match the receiver.

The barrel band would have most likely been the continuous, non-"H" type milled band with a serial number. The milled "H" types were a little earlier. Cleaning rod would be 12.5" (post-1940) variation. Laminate stock with cupped butt-plate. The butt-plate would have also had a serial number.

$150 is a great deal for a bring-back or pre-'68 import K98k with the metal in that condition.


xwarp  [Team Member]
3/27/2012 8:59:22 PM
Originally Posted By Clockwork138:
Depending on manufacturer, K98ks had either the barrel or the receiver serialized. Steyr-Daimlers(bnz) had serialized receivers. Are you sure the proof on the barrel isn't WaA623? That's Steyr-Daimler and would match the receiver.

The barrel band would have most likely been the continuous, non-"H" type milled band with a serial number. The milled "H" types were a little earlier. Cleaning rod would be 12.5" (post-1940) variation. Laminate stock with cupped butt-plate. The butt-plate would have also had a serial number.

$150 is a great deal for a bring-back or pre-'68 import K98k with the metal in that condition.




wrong.


milled h was used until late 43.

here:

http://www.ycgg.org/pdfpages/ww2/Steyr.pdf
Clockwork138  [Member]
3/27/2012 9:16:48 PM

Originally Posted By xwarp:
Originally Posted By Clockwork138:
Depending on manufacturer, K98ks had either the barrel or the receiver serialized. Steyr-Daimlers(bnz) had serialized receivers. Are you sure the proof on the barrel isn't WaA623? That's Steyr-Daimler and would match the receiver.

The barrel band would have most likely been the continuous, non-"H" type milled band with a serial number. The milled "H" types were a little earlier. Cleaning rod would be 12.5" (post-1940) variation. Laminate stock with cupped butt-plate. The butt-plate would have also had a serial number.

$150 is a great deal for a bring-back or pre-'68 import K98k with the metal in that condition.




wrong.


milled h was used until late 43.

here:

http://www.ycgg.org/pdfpages/ww2/Steyr.pdf

I don't have a .pdf reader, but I'll take your word on it. There are all matching bnz '42s with the speed milled non-H band out there, though. That's why I originally said "most likely" as the "H" band was being transitioned out in '42-'43.


Thanks for your service to our nation, xwarp.
Wendelsnatch  [Member]
3/28/2012 7:34:15 PM
Originally Posted By xwarp:
you got a GREAT deal on that. let me know if you decide to sell!

waa77 is the inspection stamp, i believe for steyr at that time. yes, k is part of the serial which matches the receiver and no, not all barrels had serial stamped on them.

you will need a milled front "h" band.

in regards to the barrel, post pics of the collar just outside the receiver. it appears that the barrel may have been replaced as i don't see 7.9x on top.


Ok, so here are pics of the barrel and receiver after being all cleaned up. Missing is a pick of the bore because I couldnt get the lighting right. Bore still shines but has some very noticable pitting from about an inch in from the crown for about 1/3 of the lenght of the barrel. Second pic shows the trigger components. Part of the assembly is stamped 85 matching the rifle, but the actual trigger seems to be stamped 33 upside down. I am unsure if this is a replacement part or triggers were not numbered to match.

Third pick shows where the receiver meets the barrel and the stamps on the barrel. From some research (which I am unsure of validity) the Bo mark on the barrel is a mark from Radom in Poland. I have also heard there was some sharing of parts between Radom and Styre mauser factories, but I still have no idea if the rifle was made originally with the Radom barrel, or it was replaced later.

Fourth pic shows some marks from the right side of the receiver that would normally be under the wood. No clue what these mean.

Last picture shows some scratches on the barrel which extend to about 1/4 an inch above the wood line. They are very light, just enough to see shiny metal under bluing. They are most noticible on the barrel from rear sight back, but are also present on the receiver at the same location above the wood but to a lesser degree. Any ideas where these scratchs would come from.










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