WWII history buffs... a little help? M1A1 Carbine
My late Grandfather jumped with the 101st Airborne into France during WWII and I am almost certain he carried an M1A1 Carbine, but I can't remember if he had the A1 or the standard M1 Carbine with the fixed stock. Seeing as he is no longer around to ask and many years have passed since I have heard his stories, I can't remember for sure. I am curious to see if anyone around here knows what the 101st jumped with during Operation Overlord. I know the M1A1 was the Paratrooper variant and its in a bunch of movies (Hollywood is always 100% accurate, right?) but I wanted to find out for sure before I really start saving up for one or the other. Deep down I hope it was the fixed stock one because they are roughly 1/3 the price of the M1A1, but I want to get the correct one. Thanks in advance!
As far as Airborne troops go, the full stock M1 Carbine probably didn't start showing up in their hands until replacement troops started arriving later in the war after market Garden.
With no more jumps likely and troops having figured out how to jump a fully assembled M1 rifle, the standard Carbine was considered suitable for issue.
During Normandy, I think the only Carbines they had were the M1A1 folder. The M1A1 was made specifically for them and that's what they were issued for D-Day.
Of all the verified photos and film of D-Day Airborne troops, I've never seen a full stocked M1 Carbine.
You do have to watch carefully, because a lot of photos and film you see either aren't Airborne soldiers or it's from later in the war.
Thanks for your help. Thats what I figured as I don't see a purpose in that extra engineering and cost to build the folder if not to issue it to them for jumps. Looks like I'll be trying to find a way to get an M1A1 or at least a carbine action and a repro stock.
In one of my collector books there is a picture of a soldier carrying both a folder and fixed stock. You could try to find out grand dads unit (down to company level) and there should be some record of what they were authorized for weapons at the time. Also see if any service photos for him still exist
Originally Posted By captain127:
In one of my collector books there is a picture of a soldier carrying both a folder and fixed stock. You could try to find out grand dads unit (down to company level) and there should be some record of what they were authorized for weapons at the time. Also see if any service photos for him still exist
Sounds like a good idea. Any suggestions as to who to contact? 101st unit historian perhaps? Never really tried looking into something like this so I really have no idea where to start.
Originally Posted By bottlerocket:
Originally Posted By captain127:
In one of my collector books there is a picture of a soldier carrying both a folder and fixed stock. You could try to find out grand dads unit (down to company level) and there should be some record of what they were authorized for weapons at the time. Also see if any service photos for him still exist
Sounds like a good idea. Any suggestions as to who to contact? 101st unit historian perhaps? Never really tried looking into something like this so I really have no idea where to start.
If there is anybody still around that would have record of his SSN it shouldn't be that hard to track down his discharge paperwork and past assignments
You would have found both M1s and M1a1s in the hands of the 101st on D-Day. Most of the Airborne's training was done with the full stock model. Given the other equipment and weapons those guys dropped in with, the added weight/length of that little carbine would have been nothing.
It would be easy enough to make a M1A1 stand in. Get yourself an inexpensive inland and then buy one of these stocks:
M1A1 stockFor the last word, if you're an NRA member (and shame on you if you aren't) you can send a question and a SASE to the American Rifleman Dope Bag.
The Tech Staff will answer ONE question per letter.
Include the SASE and your NRA member ID info.
On the staff is Bruce Canfield, who's THE expert on American arms and who used them. He can tell you for sure what was being used and what the most likely Carbine was that was jumped into Normandy.
Thanks everyone for all the input! I'm an NRA member so it looks like I'll be writing that letter. Sounds like a good avenue to take. Also looks like I'll be looking for a standard M1 carbine with a stock in poor condition and swapping it for a SARCO stock.
If you are going for a realy accurate rendition don't forget you will need a type one barrel band (no bayonet lug) and flip not adjustable sights.
The repro stocks also need to have the metal parked (its blued on the repros) and the leather and rivets are wrong. There was a guy on Ebay doing this as a package deal a while back.
Originally Posted By Spec-4:
Originally Posted By bottlerocket:
Originally Posted By captain127:
In one of my collector books there is a picture of a soldier carrying both a folder and fixed stock. You could try to find out grand dads unit (down to company level) and there should be some record of what they were authorized for weapons at the time. Also see if any service photos for him still exist
Sounds like a good idea. Any suggestions as to who to contact? 101st unit historian perhaps? Never really tried looking into something like this so I really have no idea where to start.
If there is anybody still around that would have record of his SSN it shouldn't be that hard to track down his discharge paperwork and past assignments
Social Security Numbers weren't used during WWII. He would need his grandfather's service number.
Any idea how I would go about doing that?
They should be on his dogtags if you had those.
Originally Posted By Spec-4:
Originally Posted By bottlerocket:
Originally Posted By captain127:
In one of my collector books there is a picture of a soldier carrying both a folder and fixed stock. You could try to find out grand dads unit (down to company level) and there should be some record of what they were authorized for weapons at the time. Also see if any service photos for him still exist
Sounds like a good idea. Any suggestions as to who to contact? 101st unit historian perhaps? Never really tried looking into something like this so I really have no idea where to start.
If there is anybody still around that would have record of his SSN it shouldn't be that hard to track down his discharge paperwork and past assignments
The Army Records Center in St. Louis had a very big fire back in the 1970's and many of the WWII veterans records were destroyed. All of my uncles records were lost in the fire and its very difficult to find any information on him. The OP may run into the same problem.
There are some pretty knowledgeable guys that specialize in US military equipment at a forum called usmilitaria.com and their favorite era is WWII
Some of these guys are historians, not just history buffs
I would like to clean up the battlefield here on this subject.
1. The 101st would have had M1A1 carbines for the Normandy drop.
2. Records at St. Louis did not have weapon serial numbers
3. Unit records for issue of weapons did not survive WWII.
4. You can take the repro M1A1 stock and a Inland made M1 Carbine
barreled action and just about have what your grand father had. Now
if you want to go anal, everything gets parked, type 1 barrel band,
fip type L rear sights, older model safety, flat bolt and on and on and on.
If you want to go into the molecule by molecule exact reproduction route,
its time to go to the carbine forum at CMP. There are those there who
will help you chase obscure parts and help you with data.
A representative example repro : the repro stock and a Inland barreled action
or ANY US GI carbine barreled action if you care to not chase a Inland.
wow man of few words huh lol
My FiL was in the 101st and I asked him. He carried a Thompson. Others in his Rgt. carried M1 Rifles, M1A1 Carbines, and more Thompsons.
Noah
You can obtain his service record from the National Archives......you'll need certain info to obtain it, give a phone call & they'll steer you. I managed to get my great great GF's civil war record including muster role records & a notation of him being charged for the loss of a canteen and shoulder scales! Hulluva note as it was just after an engagement in Fredricksburg!
