AR15.Com Archives
 Plate carrier setup
floridahunter07  [Member]
3/17/2009 12:52:04 PM EST
Eagle LE Plate Carrier
Blackhawk S.T.R.I.K.E. M4 Double Mag Pouch
Blackhawk S.T.R.I.K.E. Pistol Double Mag Pouch
Blackhawk S.T.R.I.K.E. Folding Dump Pouch
Blackhawk S.T.R.I.K.E. Hydration System Carrier












That's what I'm looking at. Would give me 8 AR mags and 4 mags for my 1911. I've already got a Camelbak bladder in a hunting pack that I would put in the hydration system carrier, dump pouch is for empty mags and whatever else I'd need to shove in there. I'd be using Speed Clips to hold everything together.

Are Eagle and Blackhawk good quality? New to the carrier/vest game, so figured I'd ask. You can't blend in carrying a rifle so that's not a problem to me as far as SHTF, plus a possible future in LE could give this OTJ use as well (not sure on requirements, if any, to use personal equipment with the local agencies around here, that'd be something to deal with when the time came as it is a minute detail compared to everything else I need to get done to do the academy). Would also like to take a couple carbine classes and having everything on a vest would make that much easier. Not sure on plates yet.

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protus  [Team Member]
3/17/2009 1:16:51 AM EST
wear it all day in august and get back to me just saying.
ya got water check
ammo
check
sidearm ammo check..
pretty basic ...
JBlitzen  [Team Member]
3/17/2009 1:35:09 AM EST
Check out the tactical gear forum. They've got, like, a 900 page thread of pictures of exactly these setups.

I just picked up one, myself, finally. Same carrier, since it's one of the only ones with the right features in my size. Cheap CTD pouches, though, and I'm so far quite pleased with them. ~$10 each. I'd save the $ on the blackhawk stuff unless you really want to pwn in competitions or you work somewhere where the daytime temperatures can exceed 135 F. I'm usually a fiend for quality, and I didn't mind spending on the carrier itself, but the CTD stuff is so cheap that you can pick up tons of it and mix and match all you want, and it really is pretty decent quality.

12 magazines is heavy, even if some are for a pistol. With some experience on my own, I knew to keep my rig around 4-6 rifle magazines. I think I landed on 5 or 6. I'd also suggest a first aid pouch and maybe a flashlight. I wouldn't worry too much about a dump pouch except for competition. If you need to keep your empty mags in a firefight with zombies, you can always stuff them back in the pouch you pulled them out of, although it does add a second or two of "wait, that pouch has empties" time when reloading.

I'm personally of a mind that if two seconds makes a difference when you're reloading, you're probably doing something terribly wrong to begin with.

You might want to throw a simple first aid pouch on there, too, with a couple israeli bandages, a couple simple bandaids so you don't get blood everywhere after a fight with underbrush, and a chest seal.
floridahunter07  [Member]
3/17/2009 5:52:42 AM EST
Originally Posted By protus:
wear it all day in august and get back to me just saying.
ya got water check
ammo
check
sidearm ammo check..
pretty basic ...


I'm sure it will be quite warm.

Originally Posted By JBlitzen:
Check out the tactical gear forum. They've got, like, a 900 page thread of pictures of exactly these setups.

I just picked up one, myself, finally. Same carrier, since it's one of the only ones with the right features in my size. Cheap CTD pouches, though, and I'm so far quite pleased with them. ~$10 each. I'd save the $ on the blackhawk stuff unless you really want to pwn in competitions or you work somewhere where the daytime temperatures can exceed 135 F. I'm usually a fiend for quality, and I didn't mind spending on the carrier itself, but the CTD stuff is so cheap that you can pick up tons of it and mix and match all you want, and it really is pretty decent quality.

12 magazines is heavy, even if some are for a pistol. With some experience on my own, I knew to keep my rig around 4-6 rifle magazines. I think I landed on 5 or 6. I'd also suggest a first aid pouch and maybe a flashlight. I wouldn't worry too much about a dump pouch except for competition. If you need to keep your empty mags in a firefight with zombies, you can always stuff them back in the pouch you pulled them out of, although it does add a second or two of "wait, that pouch has empties" time when reloading.

I'm personally of a mind that if two seconds makes a difference when you're reloading, you're probably doing something terribly wrong to begin with.

You might want to throw a simple first aid pouch on there, too, with a couple israeli bandages, a couple simple bandaids so you don't get blood everywhere after a fight with underbrush, and a chest seal.


I knew there was something else I had forgotten to list! I had mentally added a first aid pouch/med kit when I started pricing and putting this together, I just didn't add it to the list. I added two double M4 mag pouches because having two would keep it balanced on each side of the vest instead of having a single 3 mag pouch on one side (seems like it would make the vest sag), suggestions on that one? The flashlight I had thought of once before I forgot it, lol. Maybe instead of the dump pouch I could get a general utility pouch for maps, compass, etc. I'd want to get something like a Surefire 6P with an LED bulb so I had a good-quality flashlight with a push button end cap (have done a little research but not much on that one).

What do you think of the quality of the carrier so far?



ETA: If a mod could move this to the tactical gear forum, I'd appreciate it. I didn't even know it was there before JBlitzen told me.
Phil_in_Seattle  [Moderator]
3/17/2009 12:51:47 PM EST
Moving at OPs request.
chwi548  [Member]
3/17/2009 3:27:57 PM EST
Did anyone else notice that he hasn't included plates yet? A plate carrier is going to ride, sag, and flop different when it doesn't contain plates than with them. They are designed to have them.

Personally, I think you need to slow down a tad. Now, there will be nothing wrong with setting up a rig for carbine training or such, but to be flat out honest, you'd be better served with an inexpensive Eagle/SKD Universal rig or something simple and similar.

If you get into an agency, they may have policies that dictate what you can and cannot use. If they do not care or they allow your personal rig, all the better. But it will suit you better to start simpler so you can gain experience in what you want, where you want it, and what's best to get for it.

Eagle is top notch, MADE IN THE USA gear and amongst the more respected makers. Blackhawk is made in Asia, gained a reputation for flat out copying designs from companies such as Eagle, and you will rarely find Blackhawk gear on users that actually know equipment.

There are other companies that also can provide you with options. Tactical Tailor made in WA is proved to be excellent equipment. Others can be found from ATS, HSGI, Specter, PPM, Paraclete, and others. I do not recommend CTD, Condor, or other, MADE IN CHINA pieces of Tactical Nylon. They may seem to be heavy and durable on the surface. Indeed, when only used occasionally under light circumstances that most users perhaps use them in, they may hold up. However, even though they may seem cheaper, you will loose those savings if the product fails, and you have to buy replacements. While they seem heavily built on the outside, stitching may be inferior, buckles may be a cheaper plastic, and the nylon itself may wear through faster. Many gear makers in the US take care of their customers. The phrase, "Buy Cheap, Buy Twice" will apply with CTD and others like them.

Look at it this way. The phrase "The only thing Cheaper than a Cop is Two Cops" is something I'm always fighting when trying to get the guys around me to think of what they're using. They wonder why that Chinese Taclight doesn't work, or their gear doesn't fit their body like they thought, or why their's fails or wears out quicker than mine.

If you're planning on being in LE, would you prefer your car you drive at high speeds to wear tires made in unknown conditions in China by an unknown Chinese company? Would you prefer your ammunition to be made by someone that makes it in their basement with no ammunition experience for a good deal to the Dept? Would you want to use equipment that at the moment of truth, the time you are entering that school under fire your mag pouch is flopping open and your magazines are falling out because the stitching gave way under the stress of the movement? Quality, Established gear makers you won't have to worry about that with. There have been far too many incidents reported of Blackhawk and other Chinese manufactured nylon gear that has failed in training and war environments that I won't trust it.

Now some of you are saying, "Well, my JKL Brand nylon made in China has been through torture and survived!" That may be. UNfortunately, there has been far more cases of failure than cases of success. In the LEO world, we call that a clue...

You don't have to take this advice. I am putting my opinion out and if it works for you, great. if you end up not going into LE and want to purchase cheaper gear as a way to still participate in the hobby, no problem. My view comes from someone that went down that road already, buying cheap gear to get me buy, and seeing it fail. I've wasted enough money on purchases that I've finally learned there will only be certain brands and standards I will accept when someone life depends on it. Too many cops don't realize that. I hope you do.

floridahunter07  [Member]
3/17/2009 5:49:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By Phil_in_Seattle:
Moving at OPs request.


Thanks!

Originally Posted By chwi548:
Did anyone else notice that he hasn't included plates yet? A plate carrier is going to ride, sag, and flop different when it doesn't contain plates than with them. They are designed to have them.

Indeed, I haven't added plates yet. They were going to be the last thing I purchased due to price.

Personally, I think you need to slow down a tad. Now, there will be nothing wrong with setting up a rig for carbine training or such, but to be flat out honest, you'd be better served with an inexpensive Eagle/SKD Universal rig or something simple and similar.

If you get into an agency, they may have policies that dictate what you can and cannot use. If they do not care or they allow your personal rig, all the better. But it will suit you better to start simpler so you can gain experience in what you want, where you want it, and what's best to get for it.

Eagle is top notch, MADE IN THE USA gear and amongst the more respected makers. Blackhawk is made in Asia, gained a reputation for flat out copying designs from companies such as Eagle, and you will rarely find Blackhawk gear on users that actually know equipment.

There are other companies that also can provide you with options. Tactical Tailor made in WA is proved to be excellent equipment. Others can be found from ATS, HSGI, Specter, PPM, Paraclete, and others. I do not recommend CTD, Condor, or other, MADE IN CHINA pieces of Tactical Nylon. They may seem to be heavy and durable on the surface. Indeed, when only used occasionally under light circumstances that most users perhaps use them in, they may hold up. However, even though they may seem cheaper, you will loose those savings if the product fails, and you have to buy replacements. While they seem heavily built on the outside, stitching may be inferior, buckles may be a cheaper plastic, and the nylon itself may wear through faster. Many gear makers in the US take care of their customers. The phrase, "Buy Cheap, Buy Twice" will apply with CTD and others like them.

Look at it this way. The phrase "The only thing Cheaper than a Cop is Two Cops" is something I'm always fighting when trying to get the guys around me to think of what they're using. They wonder why that Chinese Taclight doesn't work, or their gear doesn't fit their body like they thought, or why their's fails or wears out quicker than mine.

If you're planning on being in LE, would you prefer your car you drive at high speeds to wear tires made in unknown conditions in China by an unknown Chinese company? Would you prefer your ammunition to be made by someone that makes it in their basement with no ammunition experience for a good deal to the Dept? Would you want to use equipment that at the moment of truth, the time you are entering that school under fire your mag pouch is flopping open and your magazines are falling out because the stitching gave way under the stress of the movement? Quality, Established gear makers you won't have to worry about that with. There have been far too many incidents reported of Blackhawk and other Chinese manufactured nylon gear that has failed in training and war environments that I won't trust it.

Now some of you are saying, "Well, my JKL Brand nylon made in China has been through torture and survived!" That may be. UNfortunately, there has been far more cases of failure than cases of success. In the LEO world, we call that a clue...

You don't have to take this advice. I am putting my opinion out and if it works for you, great. if you end up not going into LE and want to purchase cheaper gear as a way to still participate in the hobby, no problem. My view comes from someone that went down that road already, buying cheap gear to get me buy, and seeing it fail. I've wasted enough money on purchases that I've finally learned there will only be certain brands and standards I will accept when someone life depends on it. Too many cops don't realize that. I hope you do.



I've got no problem taking advice from people if it's good. I'd rather pay once than pay twice for shitty gear, even if I don't go into LE. It's not a snob thing, I just would rather spend my money on one quality item than two sub-quality items and end up paying the same price, then STILL have to pay for the quality item at the end of the process. I hadn't heard anything bad about Blackhawk, that's why I listed their pouches. I'll look at something from Eagle or HSGI as far as pouches go.

I'm in no hurry to get a setup though, my upper hasn't even come yet (should be here around May, I ordered it in January) so the only thing I'd be able to do is run around the house reloading my lower with empty 30 round magazines. Hopefully going to be getting enough back with my taxes that I can get a case of M193 so I'll have some ammo for the AR once my upper gets here (have 180 rounds now). I'm just trying to get everything I want/need for it planned out so I can make a list in order of importance and buy it.

As far as handgun goes- I'll probably use a Safariland 6004 thigh holster.

Mikegigabyte  [Team Member]
3/17/2009 5:57:42 PM EST
make sure you tape on extra plates on the back that can stop multiple 308 hits.
chwi548  [Member]
3/17/2009 9:08:09 PM EST
You're still better off not getting an actual plate carrier at this point. Get a regular rig going, and you can always sell it. The pouches can go on the plate carrier. But I think you're going to want to get used to the weight of the magazines and such first, then later work with the weight of the plates. Work into it. Your basic rig can also be worn over a plate carrier until you get it set up.
floridahunter07  [Member]
3/18/2009 5:23:57 AM EST
Originally Posted By chwi548:
You're still better off not getting an actual plate carrier at this point. Get a regular rig going, and you can always sell it. The pouches can go on the plate carrier. But I think you're going to want to get used to the weight of the magazines and such first, then later work with the weight of the plates. Work into it. Your basic rig can also be worn over a plate carrier until you get it set up.


Good point.

http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=282

I was thinking about getting that. As far as a plain jane chest rig, I have no idea what to get but that looks like it would hold everything I'd need (AR mags, 1911 mags, flashlight, knife, water bottles, and a map.

Off of that note for a minute, does anybody sell a hydration carrier with straps that wouldn't cost me too much? I've got a Camelbak bladder like I said in my first post, but it's in my hunting pack for the moment because I didn't spring for the stand-alone hydration pack when I got it, I just purchased the bladder knowing sooner or later it'd either be on a vest of some sort or stay in my hunting pack.
Hawkeye  [Team Member]
3/18/2009 8:16:32 AM EST
Originally Posted By floridahunter07:
Eagle LE Plate Carrier
Blackhawk S.T.R.I.K.E. M4 Double Mag Pouch
Blackhawk S.T.R.I.K.E. Pistol Double Mag Pouch
Blackhawk S.T.R.I.K.E. Folding Dump Pouch
Blackhawk S.T.R.I.K.E. Hydration System Carrier


http://www.skdtac.com/ProductImages/eagle/LE_platecarrier_fg_big%20copy.jpg

http://blackhawk.com//CatalogImages/18-75-IMG1.jpeg

http://blackhawk.com//CatalogImages/18-1275-IMG7.jpeg

http://blackhawk.com//CatalogImages/18-755-IMG3.jpeg

http://blackhawk.com//CatalogImages/18-1297-IMG1.jpeg

That's what I'm looking at. Would give me 8 AR mags and 4 mags for my 1911. I've already got a Camelbak bladder in a hunting pack that I would put in the hydration system carrier, dump pouch is for empty mags and whatever else I'd need to shove in there. I'd be using Speed Clips to hold everything together.

Are Eagle and Blackhawk good quality? New to the carrier/vest game, so figured I'd ask. You can't blend in carrying a rifle so that's not a problem to me as far as SHTF, plus a possible future in LE could give this OTJ use as well (not sure on requirements, if any, to use personal equipment with the local agencies around here, that'd be something to deal with when the time came as it is a minute detail compared to everything else I need to get done to do the academy). Would also like to take a couple carbine classes and having everything on a vest would make that much easier. Not sure on plates yet.



Thats a decent setup. I'd suggest moving the pistol mags and the dump pouch to a belt, but thats just me.

Eagle is good to go. Blackhawk is usually serviceable, but, for me, there are better choices for about the same money. Eagle, Tactical Tailor, HSGI, etc...
leo84  [Member]
3/18/2009 9:49:25 AM EST
Eagle is fine.

I refuse to buy blackhawk for alot of reasons, namely the STEAL everyone elses designs. They even tried to steal the magpul CTR a while ago. Also there stuff is not made in the USA, and is ok quality wise but not great like eagle is.
jtb0311  [Team Member]
3/18/2009 9:54:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By floridahunter07:

Are Eagle and Blackhawk good quality? New to the carrier/vest game, so figured I'd ask. You can't blend in carrying a rifle so that's not a problem to me as far as SHTF, plus a possible future in LE could give this OTJ use as well (not sure on requirements, if any, to use personal equipment with the local agencies around here, that'd be something to deal with when the time came as it is a minute detail compared to everything else I need to get done to do the academy). Would also like to take a couple carbine classes and having everything on a vest would make that much easier. Not sure on plates yet.


I don't think a plate hanger w/o plates is a good idea. I think a better option is one of the gazillion MOLLE chest carriers out there. My own preference is the TT MAV.
chwi548  [Member]
3/18/2009 6:29:40 PM EST
The link posted for the Eagle Universal is the Paul Howe design and the attention afterwards seems like helped inspire the ideas for a few of the other rigs of today. I have that rig, except I have the Eagle/SKD version from Skd Tactical. The radio pouches on the sides are deep and narrow, so they are difficult to use for many of the things people are currently carrying. The SKD version has 2 columns of PALS slots on each side so you can put your own pouches. The way I had mine set up was I put a mag shingle on each of them, and a utility pouch over the left shingle, keeping the right side clear or very slim. I only cared to carry 4 mags in the established pouches to keep things slimmer. 6 mags total in the rig worked fine. For the price, you really can't go wrong for trying it out, and to be honest if you ever want to get rid of it you should be able to get a decent portion of your money back on the used market. You also could try yourself to look for a used rig of some sort. To be honest, either way you win with one of those, versus going with the plate carrier as your first.

If you're going for the LEO career, the SKD rig also sits over the passenger headrest nicely so that you always have the rig available.
floridahunter07  [Member]
3/18/2009 7:29:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By chwi548:
The link posted for the Eagle Universal is the Paul Howe design and the attention afterwards seems like helped inspire the ideas for a few of the other rigs of today. I have that rig, except I have the Eagle/SKD version from Skd Tactical. The radio pouches on the sides are deep and narrow, so they are difficult to use for many of the things people are currently carrying. The SKD version has 2 columns of PALS slots on each side so you can put your own pouches. The way I had mine set up was I put a mag shingle on each of them, and a utility pouch over the left shingle, keeping the right side clear or very slim. I only cared to carry 4 mags in the established pouches to keep things slimmer. 6 mags total in the rig worked fine. For the price, you really can't go wrong for trying it out, and to be honest if you ever want to get rid of it you should be able to get a decent portion of your money back on the used market. You also could try yourself to look for a used rig of some sort. To be honest, either way you win with one of those, versus going with the plate carrier as your first.

If you're going for the LEO career, the SKD rig also sits over the passenger headrest nicely so that you always have the rig available.


I've looked at both and except for the possibility of adding a med kit (which I'm not yet trained to use) under my left arm to keep my right arm free for my 1911, I don't really know what I'd put there.

I was planning on putting water bottles in each of those deep pouches, or maybe a bottle of water and a radio. I might have to give the SKD version another look though.
paternoster2012  [Member]
3/18/2009 11:44:15 PM EST
If you do end up in the LE field, unless you are on a SWAT team, your carrier will most likely spend the majority of its life ratting around in the trunk.

My advice is to keep it as simple as possible. Do you really wanna be running around with all the junk hanging off you looking like the michelin man?

My setup is a simple plate carrier with 4 rifle mags and a flashlight.

No need for an attached water bladder, as it will get nasty sitting in the trunk. If your gonna carry water, use sealed store bought water bottles.
Dump pouch is not needed either. Throw your mags on the ground and get them after the scene is secure.
Extra pistol mags on the carrier is your choice. I have 1 in the gun and 2 on the belt, and if I'm wearing the carrier I have a rifle. Extra pistol mags are just more weight.
Radio pouch? The radio is already on your belt
First aid kit is an OK idea. I keep my gunshot kit in the front console to grab if I dont have time to don the carrier. I also keep a full EMS jumpkit in the trunk as I'm also an EMT.

I just don't see a practical use for dressing like infantry if you are a first responder.
paternoster2012  [Member]
3/18/2009 11:50:54 PM EST
Originally Posted By floridahunter07:
that looks like it would hold everything I'd need (AR mags, 1911 mags, flashlight, knife, water bottles, and a map.


Not trying to be rude, but why do you NEED these items on your chest rig?
If you just WANT them that is cool, but you just seem to be overloading yourself

chwi548  [Member]
3/19/2009 5:00:54 AM EST
Originally Posted By paternoster2012:
If you do end up in the LE field, unless you are on a SWAT team, your carrier will most likely spend the majority of its life ratting around in the trunk. Depends on the Agency or the Officer. Some train more than others and may use the equipment more than others.

My advice is to keep it as simple as possible. Do you really wanna be running around with all the junk hanging off you looking like the michelin man? Good advice, but I think we differ SLIGHTLY on what is simple, as I consider simple to be a couple more things, for reasons explained below.

My setup is a simple plate carrier with 4 rifle mags and a flashlight.

No need for an attached water bladder, as it will get nasty sitting in the trunk. If your gonna carry water, use sealed store bought water bottles. Agreed. My preference is to have water bottles that get rotated that can be poured into a regular Thermobak. I use the hydration systems for a number of things during the warm months, and there is nothing better that to have that water when one is sweating while standing in an intersection directing traffic at a crash scene for a couple hours.
Dump pouch is not needed either. Throw your mags on the ground and get them after the scene is secure.I STRONGLY disagree here. A Maxpedition RolyPoly takes up very little room #1. #2, many cops purchase their own equipment, and I have known of lots of guys to have equipment go missing after the fact. I'm not only losing my stuff, but the dump pouch is also for when you have time to do a Tacload and you don't have the ability or dexterity to put the partial magazine back in a pouch. Tacloading is a very important skill that needs to be taught more for LEO's. The dump pouch also is for when evidence is recovered and needs to be secured by an officer. Not everyone wears Class B or Tactical-type pants yet. You come across evidence of some sort that needs to be secured right now, one can fit it in. I'm talking about that knife taken off of a suspect from the search warrant you just did, maybe a gun, maybe some drug materials. I have used the dump pouch for a variety of things.
Extra pistol mags on the carrier is your choice. I have 1 in the gun and 2 on the belt, and if I'm wearing the carrier I have a rifle. Extra pistol mags are just more weight.Its good to have a couple on the vest, as you may not be able to reach ones on the belt very well due to the size of the carrier and pouches already on the carrier. It also becomes a good item for grab and go if you are in a plainclothes situation (Ran into the office quick perhaps when the call came in?) and you do not have a full compliment of ammunition. We all know ALL LEO's not only carry off duty, but carry more than a CCW Pistol and maybe one spare magazine, right?
Radio pouch? The radio is already on your belt I agree here. If need be, a magazine pouch that sits more towards the side can be used as an impromptu radio pouch. The only time you'd probably do this is if you are using the vest in the plainclothes situation I discussed above, but other reasons could pop up I suppose.
First aid kit is an OK idea. I keep my gunshot kit in the front console to grab if I dont have time to don the carrier. I also keep a full EMS jumpkit in the trunk as I'm also an EMT.A 2mag-size rifle pouch with a basic GSW kit is not bad to have. Even if you may not have the training, someone else that does will now have the materials to treat you. It also may still be up to you to control the bleeding somewhat until help can get to you. A small kit is very good to have.

I just don't see a practical use for dressing like infantry if you are a first responder.
He won't be dressing like infantry...he won't be wearing ACU.
Like it or not, lots of police equipment has roots tied into military useage. Extreme situations where an officer needs to use maximum violence to stop violence like an Active Shooter/Killer situation are examples of where that equipment is needed. If you are concerned with appearance, why even bother with a plate carrier and a rifle as used by the US Military?
We won't be doing militay-type actions, but the first responders are being trained in new mindsets. "Patrol Leads the Way" as the CenterMassInc logo goes. Look into John Giduck reference Beslan and his thoughts towards what Police first responders need to consider. Listen to Lt Col Dave Grossman on police mindsets needed now. While I agree we dont' want to lose the traditional values of being a cop and serving the public, there are changes going on around us in those that want to hurt us that require us to be prepared.


floridahunter07  [Member]
3/19/2009 5:44:41 AM EST
The water bladder I've already kept in my trunk as part of my get home bag (hunting season isn't in right now so it pulls double duty cause I don't have anything better at the moment) and I keep bottled water in there and rotate it out, I don't pour the water in the bladder because I knew from the get-go that it would get nasty and stuff would start growing in there. I usually keep water in my car anyways as it's an older vehicle and I have a gallon jug in the trunk just in case my radiator starts leaking. Had that happen once 3+ hours from home... stopping every 30 minutes for the car to cool off enough that I could open the radiator and fill it back up sucked.

The plate carrier isn't only going to be for LE duty, it's going to be part of my SHTF preps as well, I figured it could be used for both if necessary. If the world goes to shit, I would rather stick out and look like the guy you don't want to fuck with instead of a hippie with my hiking pack and granola bars. Carrying an AR15 isn't the best way to blend in to begin with. I might not wear it all the time, but the option of having it would be nice. Plate carrier might be a little extreme for a regular LEO, but if there's a guy walking around a neighborhood shooting people with an AK and I happen to be the first one to get there, I'd want plates, not just soft armor. I could just get the chest rig and the plate carrier and keep them both in the patrol car if I needed to. Some things on the plate carrier weren't for LE work specifically- the dump pouch (could be used for evidence as suggested earlier, and I hadn't thought of that) and the pistol mag pouches would be for SHTF. If I had to defend myself in that situation, I don't want to worry about having to go around finding the magazines on the ground. Pistol mags would be harder to get to with a carrier on. Radio pouch was going to be for SHTF too. I think I'm gonna get the SKD version of the chest rig, and just get that with no extra pouches for now. Run it a few times at my buddy's property and see how much room I've got on it for a med kit. It wouldn't be off balance without something under my right arm, would it?

What does everyone think of Blackhawk Speed Clips? They seem like the easiest way to hold pouches onto MOLLE webbing from the videos I've seen.


ETA: As far as a med kit, I was thinking something simple like this:



Individual Trauma Kit

* 1 Israeli compression bandage
* 1 small package of Celox hemostatic agent
* 1 pair Nitrile gloves
* 1 High-intensity Chem-lite
* 1 Z-Pack bandage
* 2 rolls of 2" Kerlix
* 1 3" elastic bandage


OR



Tactical Response Ventilated Operator Kit

(1) Cinch Tight Compression "H" Bandage
(1) TK-4 Tourni-Kwik (3” wide 40" long Rugged Combat Tourniquet)
(1) Primed Gauze (crinkle cotton)
(1) Nasopharyngeal Airway (30FR Robertazzi Style)
(1) 14ga x 3 ¼ Catheter (sterile)
(1) Alcohol Prep Pad
(2) Safety Pins (2”) multipurpose
(1) Duct Tape (2”x100” roll)
(1) Set Nitrile N-Dex Gloves
(1) Three gram tube of Surgilube
paternoster2012  [Member]
3/19/2009 6:35:19 AM EST
Wow, the quote feature is royally screwed now. I can't even see where to reply.

As for your suggestions, I simply wrote what works for ME. I'm not a plainclothes officer and will ever be in that situation. My carrier's main role is to be worn with my uniform, that is thrown over soft armor and complimenting my duty belt. My carrier and loadout was specifically chosen to give me full access to my duty belt. I wanted something that could deploy fast for an active shooter scenario.

While I understand the uses one could see for a drop pouch, I wear cargo pants so that's where I put things.

All the search warrants I serve are low/no risk, therefore I'm not wearing my carrier. Highrisk warrants get the SWAT guys.

Basically what I was trying to get across to the OP was that he needs to set his rig up to his own personal needs, and it is best to streamline that. You can always add something later if you feel an area that is lacking. Quality gear is not cheap, so buying something only to ditch it later is not the greatest idea.

As for my comments about dressing like infantry, my thought process is that being a first responder is all about speed. It takes me all of 10 seconds to throw my carrier on over my soft armor. I'd rather not spend 15 minutes or even 5 minutes putting on elbow pads, plater carriers, hydration systems, ballistic helmets, etc etc. Leave that for the SWAT guys.
If you are an officer you know the type of guy I am describing. He is the rookie that shows up to the range with all this junk but can't shoot or use it at all.

I honestly don't care what police dress like and they should use the most modern equipment to get the job done. My uniform is exactly the same as the US Army uniform of days old. It is an officers actions, not his gear that make him an asset or detriment to society. I've begged supervisors for an external soft armor carrier to use when I'm on boat patrol. They said it is too scary to the public...

OP, build your carrier to meet YOUR needs. As you can see, one officers needs vary greatly from another officers. It all depends on their location and duties.

Originally Posted By chwi548:
Originally Posted By paternoster2012:
If you do end up in the LE field, unless you are on a SWAT team, your carrier will most likely spend the majority of its life ratting around in the trunk. Depends on the Agency or the Officer. Some train more than others and may use the equipment more than others.

My advice is to keep it as simple as possible. Do you really wanna be running around with all the junk hanging off you looking like the michelin man? Good advice, but I think we differ SLIGHTLY on what is simple, as I consider simple to be a couple more things, for reasons explained below.

My setup is a simple plate carrier with 4 rifle mags and a flashlight.

No need for an attached water bladder, as it will get nasty sitting in the trunk. If your gonna carry water, use sealed store bought water bottles. Agreed. My preference is to have water bottles that get rotated that can be poured into a regular Thermobak. I use the hydration systems for a number of things during the warm months, and there is nothing better that to have that water when one is sweating while standing in an intersection directing traffic at a crash scene for a couple hours.
Dump pouch is not needed either. Throw your mags on the ground and get them after the scene is secure.I STRONGLY disagree here. A Maxpedition RolyPoly takes up very little room #1. #2, many cops purchase their own equipment, and I have known of lots of guys to have equipment go missing after the fact. I'm not only losing my stuff, but the dump pouch is also for when you have time to do a Tacload and you don't have the ability or dexterity to put the partial magazine back in a pouch. Tacloading is a very important skill that needs to be taught more for LEO's. The dump pouch also is for when evidence is recovered and needs to be secured by an officer. Not everyone wears Class B or Tactical-type pants yet. You come across evidence of some sort that needs to be secured right now, one can fit it in. I'm talking about that knife taken off of a suspect from the search warrant you just did, maybe a gun, maybe some drug materials. I have used the dump pouch for a variety of things.
Extra pistol mags on the carrier is your choice. I have 1 in the gun and 2 on the belt, and if I'm wearing the carrier I have a rifle. Extra pistol mags are just more weight.Its good to have a couple on the vest, as you may not be able to reach ones on the belt very well due to the size of the carrier and pouches already on the carrier. It also becomes a good item for grab and go if you are in a plainclothes situation (Ran into the office quick perhaps when the call came in?) and you do not have a full compliment of ammunition. We all know ALL LEO's not only carry off duty, but carry more than a CCW Pistol and maybe one spare magazine, right?
Radio pouch? The radio is already on your belt I agree here. If need be, a magazine pouch that sits more towards the side can be used as an impromptu radio pouch. The only time you'd probably do this is if you are using the vest in the plainclothes situation I discussed above, but other reasons could pop up I suppose.
First aid kit is an OK idea. I keep my gunshot kit in the front console to grab if I dont have time to don the carrier. I also keep a full EMS jumpkit in the trunk as I'm also an EMT.A 2mag-size rifle pouch with a basic GSW kit is not bad to have. Even if you may not have the training, someone else that does will now have the materials to treat you. It also may still be up to you to control the bleeding somewhat until help can get to you. A small kit is very good to have.

I just don't see a practical use for dressing like infantry if you are a first responder.
He won't be dressing like infantry...he won't be wearing ACU.
Like it or not, lots of police equipment has roots tied into military useage. Extreme situations where an officer needs to use maximum violence to stop violence like an Active Shooter/Killer situation are examples of where that equipment is needed. If you are concerned with appearance, why even bother with a plate carrier and a rifle as used by the US Military?
We won't be doing militay-type actions, but the first responders are being trained in new mindsets. "Patrol Leads the Way" as the CenterMassInc logo goes. Look into John Giduck reference Beslan and his thoughts towards what Police first responders need to consider. Listen to Lt Col Dave Grossman on police mindsets needed now. While I agree we dont' want to lose the traditional values of being a cop and serving the public, there are changes going on around us in those that want to hurt us that require us to be prepared.




floridahunter07  [Member]
3/19/2009 2:41:21 PM EST
The hydration carrier goes on the plate carrier, but I would probably leave it off for patrol and add it on if the SHTF.

Elbow pads and helmets are for old guys.

If it makes you feel any better, the guys who do boat patrol around here don't wear any external armor either. We've run into them plenty of times on the river while fishing or tubing, partly because I always forget my dive flag at home and we usually have a cooler on the boat as well, which prompts them to ask if we have beer on board... never do, but it's nice to get to talk to the guys about the job too.
chwi548  [Member]
3/19/2009 2:50:33 PM EST
[quote]Originally Posted By floridahunter07:
The hydration carrier goes on the plate carrier, but I would probably leave it off for patrol and add it on if the SHTF.

Elbow pads and helmets are for old guys.
quote]

Says the guy who obviously never has been in environments where they night hit their noggin nor did lots of training involving going prone in gravel or doing belly crawls as parts of rural movements....

Not a bad idea to add both to your kit bag. There are times they come in VERY handy, and you won't be able to get them when you need them otherwise.

...Says the guy who's trunk is usually level.....

floridahunter07  [Member]
3/19/2009 3:16:36 PM EST
Originally Posted By chwi548:
[quote]Originally Posted By floridahunter07:
The hydration carrier goes on the plate carrier, but I would probably leave it off for patrol and add it on if the SHTF.

Elbow pads and helmets are for old guys.
quote]

Says the guy who obviously never has been in environments where they night hit their noggin nor did lots of training involving going prone in gravel or doing belly crawls as parts of rural movements....

Not a bad idea to add both to your kit bag. There are times they come in VERY handy, and you won't be able to get them when you need them otherwise.

...Says the guy who's trunk is usually level.....



I had an accident involving a four wheeler and me smacking my face into an oak tree at about 25mph... I don't have much experience with hitting my head, but when I've done it I must say I made it worth the effort.

I plan on getting a set of elbow/knee pads sometime down the road.
paternoster2012  [Member]
3/19/2009 3:36:24 PM EST
Originally Posted By chwi548:
...Says the guy who's trunk is usually level.....



Ever notice what you need is always found at the bottom of the heap?

chwi548  [Member]
3/19/2009 5:37:02 PM EST
Not in my trunk....

I set mine up so things are compartmentalized in certain bags and are quickly moveable if I need to reach something else. +Aid and Tac stuff were always on top.

What sucks is changing a tire....Then shits gotta get moved.
paternoster2012  [Member]
3/20/2009 7:19:58 AM EST
Here is a pic of my setup

Like I said earlier, its more of a grab and go thing.
If it was something I used often, I would set it up differently as my needs would change.
This setup is fairly lightweight (as far as ceramics go) and works well with my duty belt. I still have access to everything on my belt and this is to be used in conjunction with the rifle.
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