Archived Posts » 60,595,333
3 gun set-up
4/28/2012 7:09:19 PM
So I was convinced by a couple of buddies to enter the world of 3 gun competitions. Had my first one last weekend. I missed 2 shotgun shots, one slug, one buckshot, both over the top of the target. I blame the fact that I was unaware anything but target loads were used, so I hadn't shot any rifled slugs or buckshot out of my shotgun before, and had no idea how they patterned. My fault for being unprepared.
Anyway, here's what I have going so far:
870 Express Tactical, with Mesa LEO adapter, Hogue AR pistol grip, BCM buffer tube with Magpul CTR and 1/4" cheek riser (taken from my XCR after getting an ACR stock on it), Ergo 3 rail forend with AFG2 and XT panels, Troy QD with MS3 sling. Still considering a light for home use and a shell carrier. Didn't like the idea of having a carrier on the shotgun, but after the 3 gun, I think it'd make it easier to keeping slug and buckshot separate from the target loads. I did have to add a .70" buttpad to the CTR. The stock .30" felt like just hard plastic smacking me. Bruised my shoulder a bit, the enhanced pad is much better.
I thought about a heat shield, because I have big hands and have a tendency to wrap my thumb over the top of the handguard on my XCR and didn't want to burn myself doing the same on the shotgun. But I didn't notice myself doing it during the competition, so I think I can avoid that (thank goodness...looks cheesy to me and haven't read any real positive reviews about any).
Anyway, a couple other pics for no particular reason:
(my 3 gun choices: XCR, 870, P229)
Anyway, here's what I have going so far:
870 Express Tactical, with Mesa LEO adapter, Hogue AR pistol grip, BCM buffer tube with Magpul CTR and 1/4" cheek riser (taken from my XCR after getting an ACR stock on it), Ergo 3 rail forend with AFG2 and XT panels, Troy QD with MS3 sling. Still considering a light for home use and a shell carrier. Didn't like the idea of having a carrier on the shotgun, but after the 3 gun, I think it'd make it easier to keeping slug and buckshot separate from the target loads. I did have to add a .70" buttpad to the CTR. The stock .30" felt like just hard plastic smacking me. Bruised my shoulder a bit, the enhanced pad is much better.
I thought about a heat shield, because I have big hands and have a tendency to wrap my thumb over the top of the handguard on my XCR and didn't want to burn myself doing the same on the shotgun. But I didn't notice myself doing it during the competition, so I think I can avoid that (thank goodness...looks cheesy to me and haven't read any real positive reviews about any).
Anyway, a couple other pics for no particular reason:
(my 3 gun choices: XCR, 870, P229)
4/28/2012 7:31:05 PM
Now I actually did have a question:
The Ergo forend keeps working loose. My problem is, if I tighten the castle nut too much, the forend seems to torque the arms that hold the bolt and go into the receiver, making it difficult to re-assemble and rack smoothly. I just re-tightened and put some Loc-tite on the threads, but I'm wondering if there's any tricks I'm not aware of that you guys can share.
Thanks in advance.
The Ergo forend keeps working loose. My problem is, if I tighten the castle nut too much, the forend seems to torque the arms that hold the bolt and go into the receiver, making it difficult to re-assemble and rack smoothly. I just re-tightened and put some Loc-tite on the threads, but I'm wondering if there's any tricks I'm not aware of that you guys can share.
Thanks in advance.
4/28/2012 9:13:05 PM
Double feed, apologies.
4/28/2012 9:13:58 PM
Originally Posted By bmyk:
Nice, run what you bring. You may want to lose the "tactical choke" and go with a Improved Cylinder, maybe keep a Modified in your bag. Have fun.
Nice, run what you bring. You may want to lose the "tactical choke" and go with a Improved Cylinder, maybe keep a Modified in your bag. Have fun.
4/28/2012 9:18:00 PM
Welcome to 3gun 
I would say your solution to your nut working loose is a fine one. See if works. 3gun has a way of working out problems in your weapons.
ETA - observe what other guys are using, ask to try stuff.
I would say your solution to your nut working loose is a fine one. See if works. 3gun has a way of working out problems in your weapons.
ETA - observe what other guys are using, ask to try stuff.
4/28/2012 10:53:03 PM
Originally Posted By bmyk:
Nice, run what you bring. You may want to lose the "tactical choke" and go with a Improved Cylinder, maybe keep a Modified in your bag. Have fun.
Nice, run what you bring. You may want to lose the "tactical choke" and go with a Improved Cylinder, maybe keep a Modified in your bag. Have fun.
+1 Lose the breacher choke. Depending on the match, most rules at larger matches would consider that a "ported" choke that would place you in Open division. You're on the right path by just getting out there and seeing what works and what doesn't!
I run a Light Modified choke for almost everything, but keep a Skeet and Light Full on hand just in case. I'm going to start experimenting with an Improved Cylinder choke to see how that works out compared to the LM.
-Randy
4/28/2012 11:38:44 PM
Originally Posted By double_r76:
+1 Lose the breacher choke. Depending on the match, most rules at larger matches would consider that a "ported" choke that would place you in Open division. You're on the right path by just getting out there and seeing what works and what doesn't!
I run a Light Modified choke for almost everything, but keep a Skeet and Light Full on hand just in case. I'm going to start experimenting with an Improved Cylinder choke to see how that works out compared to the LM.
-Randy
Originally Posted By bmyk:
Nice, run what you bring. You may want to lose the "tactical choke" and go with a Improved Cylinder, maybe keep a Modified in your bag. Have fun.
Nice, run what you bring. You may want to lose the "tactical choke" and go with a Improved Cylinder, maybe keep a Modified in your bag. Have fun.
+1 Lose the breacher choke. Depending on the match, most rules at larger matches would consider that a "ported" choke that would place you in Open division. You're on the right path by just getting out there and seeing what works and what doesn't!
I run a Light Modified choke for almost everything, but keep a Skeet and Light Full on hand just in case. I'm going to start experimenting with an Improved Cylinder choke to see how that works out compared to the LM.
-Randy
I was going to say, you may want to reconsider that choke as it could be considered a comp or porting that will place you in open division in some places. Never hurts to have a couple chokes on hand, I would stay with your standard chokes - full, mod, IC, maybe a skeet, depends how often you see clays.
4/29/2012 9:40:00 AM
+1 on the light modified choke... just a comment, the more junk you add to your gear, the more options you have for trouble... if your club doesn't do transitions while retaining the long gun, loose the sling, it will just catch on things (like yank your pistol out of the holster)
4/29/2012 12:00:43 PM
A sincere thank you to all that have responded.
A little background: I've only had the shotgun for just under a year. My buddies got together last year and bought it for me (along with a gun cabinet). Needless to say, I was quite taken aback. Prior to getting it, I'd probably only shot a shotgun once. I quickly found out I didn't like the angle the rifle stock placed my wrist at, which resulted in the Mesa adapter. I did learn that grips with the extension for the web of your hand (like the Ergo or MIAD with large strap) don't work with the LEO adapter which is how the Hogue ended up on it. Then I figured as long as it was becoming similar to my XCR, I may as well keep them as close as possible. So I wanted the AFG, and needed rails to attach it to.
The sling isn't my idea. Apparently it'srequiredfor the competition, at least the team competition. The 5th stage of the April one did have us carrying both the SG and the rifle through the first half, but it was rifle slung, carrying shotgun. I'm trying to picture slinging both at the same time, and don't see how that would work well. Anyway, that's the reason for the sling.
As for chokes, I honestly don't know much about them. The only reason that breaching device is on there is because it came with it. And until I decide on a replacement, it stays in simply to protect the threading. I understand the concept of chokes, but don't know where each one falls in the spectrum of chokes and how much difference exists between them. I also don't know at what point you can't use rifled slugs. Are there chokes that narrow so much slugs are no-go?
Are there any specific manufacturers that are preferred or avoided? Any material or finish that is recommended? Are chokes universal across all 12 gauge or do different manufacturers need different threading or size?
Again, I welcome all help and criticism. Thanks!
A little background: I've only had the shotgun for just under a year. My buddies got together last year and bought it for me (along with a gun cabinet). Needless to say, I was quite taken aback. Prior to getting it, I'd probably only shot a shotgun once. I quickly found out I didn't like the angle the rifle stock placed my wrist at, which resulted in the Mesa adapter. I did learn that grips with the extension for the web of your hand (like the Ergo or MIAD with large strap) don't work with the LEO adapter which is how the Hogue ended up on it. Then I figured as long as it was becoming similar to my XCR, I may as well keep them as close as possible. So I wanted the AFG, and needed rails to attach it to.
The sling isn't my idea. Apparently it'srequiredfor the competition, at least the team competition. The 5th stage of the April one did have us carrying both the SG and the rifle through the first half, but it was rifle slung, carrying shotgun. I'm trying to picture slinging both at the same time, and don't see how that would work well. Anyway, that's the reason for the sling.
As for chokes, I honestly don't know much about them. The only reason that breaching device is on there is because it came with it. And until I decide on a replacement, it stays in simply to protect the threading. I understand the concept of chokes, but don't know where each one falls in the spectrum of chokes and how much difference exists between them. I also don't know at what point you can't use rifled slugs. Are there chokes that narrow so much slugs are no-go?
Are there any specific manufacturers that are preferred or avoided? Any material or finish that is recommended? Are chokes universal across all 12 gauge or do different manufacturers need different threading or size?
Again, I welcome all help and criticism. Thanks!
4/29/2012 2:13:31 PM
Some clubs like people to run slings, just depends.
Chokes from smallest to largest end diameter (most common) - full (F), modified (mod), improved cylinder (IC), skeet (SK), cylinder (CL) There are some you might find that fall between these. We are talking millimeters in difference but it will effect your shot pattern pretty profoundly. Typically IC is good for rifled slugs. Buckshot is kind of funky because part of it depends on the load packing in the wad and the type of wad used as well as the choke. Essentially you figure out what loads you are going to use and test them with various chokes.
ETA - Chokes do have different threading on them and companies other than the gun manufacture make them. You just need to be sure what type of threading or what shotgun you have and match it with the chokes. More info here
You don't have to get this deep into it if you don't want to. You can just go and have fun, learn your gear, and BS with others. If you want to get more competitive, this is only the beginning. Next you'll find yourself needing a semi-auto shotgun, longer barrel, chokes, longer extension tube, shotshell caddies, and saddle mounts - that's just the shotgun!
Chokes from smallest to largest end diameter (most common) - full (F), modified (mod), improved cylinder (IC), skeet (SK), cylinder (CL) There are some you might find that fall between these. We are talking millimeters in difference but it will effect your shot pattern pretty profoundly. Typically IC is good for rifled slugs. Buckshot is kind of funky because part of it depends on the load packing in the wad and the type of wad used as well as the choke. Essentially you figure out what loads you are going to use and test them with various chokes.
ETA - Chokes do have different threading on them and companies other than the gun manufacture make them. You just need to be sure what type of threading or what shotgun you have and match it with the chokes. More info here
You don't have to get this deep into it if you don't want to. You can just go and have fun, learn your gear, and BS with others. If you want to get more competitive, this is only the beginning. Next you'll find yourself needing a semi-auto shotgun, longer barrel, chokes, longer extension tube, shotshell caddies, and saddle mounts - that's just the shotgun!
4/29/2012 3:04:54 PM
Buddy,
Where did you get the folding charging handle for your XCR???
MadDog
Where did you get the folding charging handle for your XCR???
MadDog
4/29/2012 6:19:43 PM
Here is a link to the Remington Shotgun Guide. It is a very good introduction to shotguns and does a really good job explaining chokes. Very short quick read. You will need Rem Choke for your 870. These are very well priced and available at any big box sporting goods store. If you look at the Remington Police models, they all pretty much come with Improved Cylinder which is just a little narrower than the Cylinder (which provides no restriction) and is ideal for buckshot and slugs. Full choke has the most restriction. The more restriction, the narrower the pattern and further you effective range.....loosely. Anyway read the pamphlet.
I like 3 Gun matches like the one you shot, more realistic grounding in self defense rather than just another sport like the big matches seem to be; but anything that promotes safe shooting is GOOD so just choose a flavor LOL. I am not LEO, but anything I have could also serve as a duty weapon or HD tool.
Good luck
Originally Posted By BuddyChryst:
A sincere thank you to all that have responded.
A little background: I've only had the shotgun for just under a year. My buddies got together last year and bought it for me (along with a gun cabinet). Needless to say, I was quite taken aback. Prior to getting it, I'd probably only shot a shotgun once. I quickly found out I didn't like the angle the rifle stock placed my wrist at, which resulted in the Mesa adapter. I did learn that grips with the extension for the web of your hand (like the Ergo or MIAD with large strap) don't work with the LEO adapter which is how the Hogue ended up on it. Then I figured as long as it was becoming similar to my XCR, I may as well keep them as close as possible. So I wanted the AFG, and needed rails to attach it to.
The sling isn't my idea. Apparently it'srequiredfor the competition, at least the team competition. The 5th stage of the April one did have us carrying both the SG and the rifle through the first half, but it was rifle slung, carrying shotgun. I'm trying to picture slinging both at the same time, and don't see how that would work well. Anyway, that's the reason for the sling.
As for chokes, I honestly don't know much about them. The only reason that breaching device is on there is because it came with it. And until I decide on a replacement, it stays in simply to protect the threading. I understand the concept of chokes, but don't know where each one falls in the spectrum of chokes and how much difference exists between them. I also don't know at what point you can't use rifled slugs. Are there chokes that narrow so much slugs are no-go?
Are there any specific manufacturers that are preferred or avoided? Any material or finish that is recommended? Are chokes universal across all 12 gauge or do different manufacturers need different threading or size?
Again, I welcome all help and criticism. Thanks!
A sincere thank you to all that have responded.
A little background: I've only had the shotgun for just under a year. My buddies got together last year and bought it for me (along with a gun cabinet). Needless to say, I was quite taken aback. Prior to getting it, I'd probably only shot a shotgun once. I quickly found out I didn't like the angle the rifle stock placed my wrist at, which resulted in the Mesa adapter. I did learn that grips with the extension for the web of your hand (like the Ergo or MIAD with large strap) don't work with the LEO adapter which is how the Hogue ended up on it. Then I figured as long as it was becoming similar to my XCR, I may as well keep them as close as possible. So I wanted the AFG, and needed rails to attach it to.
The sling isn't my idea. Apparently it'srequiredfor the competition, at least the team competition. The 5th stage of the April one did have us carrying both the SG and the rifle through the first half, but it was rifle slung, carrying shotgun. I'm trying to picture slinging both at the same time, and don't see how that would work well. Anyway, that's the reason for the sling.
As for chokes, I honestly don't know much about them. The only reason that breaching device is on there is because it came with it. And until I decide on a replacement, it stays in simply to protect the threading. I understand the concept of chokes, but don't know where each one falls in the spectrum of chokes and how much difference exists between them. I also don't know at what point you can't use rifled slugs. Are there chokes that narrow so much slugs are no-go?
Are there any specific manufacturers that are preferred or avoided? Any material or finish that is recommended? Are chokes universal across all 12 gauge or do different manufacturers need different threading or size?
Again, I welcome all help and criticism. Thanks!
4/29/2012 7:23:01 PM
Originally Posted By MadDogDan:
Buddy,
Where did you get the folding charging handle for your XCR???
MadDog
Where did you get the folding charging handle for your XCR???
MadDog
Mountainman on the xcrforum made them. Last I heard he still had 15 or so available. I got it just before the match, and was a little worried about it being too tucked away. The weather was miserable for the match, wind chill of about 30, but I had no problems operating it with frozen fingers and gloves. Roughly 90 bucks shipped.
