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 What shotgun does the US military use?
Mikemech  [Member]
4/7/2010 3:06:00 PM
Hi, i wasn't sure if this topic has been brought up, but what shotgun is currently used in Iraq and Afghanistan? thanks :)
mic214  [Team Member]
4/7/2010 3:12:02 PM
I thought it was the Mossberg 590A1.......
Gravity3694  [Member]
4/7/2010 3:13:32 PM
Mostly Mossberg 590A1s, and 500s. Next to that there's Benelli M4s, and finally Remington 870s.
Hendricks5150  [Team Member]
4/7/2010 3:24:34 PM
It depends on the branch.

I'm not sure who uses what. I think the Air Force might use 870s
Gravity3694  [Member]
4/7/2010 3:38:12 PM
I know there are some 870s floating around in USMC and the USN. I've seen some pics floating around the internet with Marines and Sailors using them. JD of AIP also said he saw some armorers from the Marines at the Remington police armorer's course.
southernrebel  [Member]
4/7/2010 3:43:18 PM
The mossy 590 is the only us made milspec shotgun.
R0N  [Team Member]
4/7/2010 3:53:33 PM
Originally Posted By southernrebel:
The mossy 590 is the only us made milspec shotgun.


Well since we issue M1014 (Benellis), M500 as part of the less than lethal kit and 870s with front and rear grips for breaching. I would say assessment is incorrect.


By the way the only unit that extensively used the M590 was Marine Security Force Battalion.
Gravity3694  [Member]
4/7/2010 3:54:02 PM

Originally Posted By southernrebel:
The mossy 590 is the only us made milspec shotgun.

It was initially only the 500, but then .mil changed the spec which required a metal safety and trigger guard, so then the 590A1 was made to fit the bill.

I'm sure the 870 would pass also, but Remington never entered because they knew they couldn't make 870s as cheap as Mossberg 500/590s.

I wonder if the Benelli M4 for military use is made in USA like the M9, or is it imported like the civilian M4s. I assume they make them here due to the made in USA requirements for US military equipment.
DMR  [Team Member]
4/7/2010 3:59:22 PM
The primary shotgun is one of several Mossberg variants about 26,000-30,000 in service depending on what numbers you use:

Most Army Shotguns are 18" M500 5+1 bead sight shotguns with pistol grips over packed in the box. they are most commonly seen deployed as pistol grip only breaching shotguns.
About 1,000 of the 20" 590A1's with heat shield and bead sight are floating around also.
The USMC/Navy also uses variants of the Mossberg also, Mostly 590A1's with 17or 18" heavy wall bead barrels.
There is also 1,221 of a 5+1 variant that uses a 14" or 18" barrel and 16"or 18" breaching barrel, collapsible stocks, 1913 reciever rail and rail forends that are also in use

The USMC has around 10,000 Benelli M-1014's aka M-4 on hand or possibly the last few in production still. A few are scattered around SOF.

A few Rem 870 breaching shotguns are scattered around SOF, to include MARSOC.

About 1,000-1,500 870 MCS's are also in use, with AF Security forces being the main users.

The numbers are preety round, but give you the ideal.

RON, you need to shoot me an e-mail
R0N  [Team Member]
4/7/2010 4:05:22 PM
Originally Posted By DMR:
The primary shotgun is one of several Mossberg variants about 26,000-30,000 in service depending on what numbers you use:

Most Army Shotguns are 18" M500 5+1 bead sight shotguns with pistol grips over packed in the box. they are most commonly seen deployed as pistol grip only breaching shotguns.
About 1,000 of the 20" 590A1's with heat shield and bead sight are floating around also.
The USMC/Navy also uses variants of the Mossberg also, Mostly 590A1's with 17or 18" heavy wall bead barrels.
There is also 1,221 of a 5+1 variant that uses a 14" or 18" barrel and 16"or 18" breaching barrel, collapsible stocks, 1913 reciever rail and rail forends that are also in use

The USMC has around 10,000 Benelli M-1014's aka M-4 on hand or possibly the last few in production still. A few are scattered around SOF.

A few Rem 870 breaching shotguns are scattered around SOF, to include MARSOC.

About 1,000-1,500 870 MCS's are also in use, with AF Security forces being the main users.

The numbers are preety round, but give you the ideal.

RON, you need to shoot me an e-mail

Email sent, A few years back we were to WIR all 590s when the M1014 was adopted, around the same time all the M500 were recollected annd placed in the less the lethal kits. So for a short period all we had were M1014s for standard usage and M500 out of the LL kit.



southernrebel  [Member]
4/7/2010 4:42:28 PM
I am just going by what mossy said when the guys from the show best defense went to the factory to talk about the taser bullet they came up with for the 12ga.

They said they was the ONLY milspec shotgun MADE IN THE USA( since benelli is made in italy i think this would exclude them) and went into some detail about the test they 590a1 had to take to pass it.

It was something like 1 failure every 2,000 rounds to pass the test and the mossy had 0 failures.
bulletsponge13  [Team Member]
4/7/2010 4:50:07 PM
I know of all the ones mentioned, plus one missed:
Winchester 1200. I had one, synthetic furniture and barrel shroud with bayonet mount. I miss it.
DMR  [Team Member]
4/7/2010 5:36:26 PM
Originally Posted By bulletsponge13:
I know of all the ones mentioned, plus one missed:
Winchester 1200. I had one, synthetic furniture and barrel shroud with bayonet mount. I miss it.


good point I over looked. While the Mossberg is the "official" shotgun for the Army you may still find Winchesters and Remingtons in some arms rooms. TACOM issued guidance a few years ago a few years ago to turn in all Winchester 1300's. They are no longer supported by TACOM. Units turning in will have them replaced by Mossbergs. The 870 was also included in the guidance, but was not listed by name as there were fewer then 100 (non-MCS) in the TACOM "system".
Madcap72  [Member]
4/7/2010 5:58:39 PM
Originally Posted By southernrebel:
I am just going by what mossy said when the guys from the show best defense went to the factory to talk about the taser bullet they came up with for the 12ga.

They said they was the ONLY milspec shotgun MADE IN THE USA( since benelli is made in italy i think this would exclude them) and went into some detail about the test they 590a1 had to take to pass it.

It was something like 1 failure every 2,000 rounds to pass the test and the mossy had 0 failures.


That's nothing, My US Ordinance marked Winchester M12 has probably had 0 failures since 1945....


powdershots  [Member]
4/7/2010 6:34:53 PM
benelli
southernrebel  [Member]
4/7/2010 7:15:50 PM
that's nothing



Yea OK!

So zero failures in 2,000 rds fired back to back out of a shotgun is nothing?

The test did not stop a 2,000 that was just the benchmark used.
ANIMUS  [Team Member]
4/7/2010 10:14:49 PM
Originally Posted By southernrebel:
that's nothing



Yea OK!

So zero failures in 2,000 rds fired back to back out of a shotgun is nothing?

The test did not stop a 2,000 that was just the benchmark used.


What shotgun is in your units armory?

southernrebel  [Member]
4/8/2010 8:05:44 AM
What shotgun is in your units armory?



Mossy 590 with beaching barrel and pistol grip!

And yours?
R0N  [Team Member]
4/8/2010 8:09:46 AM
Originally Posted By southernrebel:
What shotgun is in your units armory?



Mossy 590 with beaching barrel and pistol grip!

And yours?


M1014s and 500s are part of the less than LL kits
DMR  [Team Member]
4/8/2010 12:01:02 PM
Originally Posted By southernrebel:
What shotgun is in your units armory?



Mossy 590 with beaching barrel and pistol grip!

And yours?


Southernrebel,

Could you shoot me an e-mail about that shotgun set up to include your unit?

Thanks

southernrebel  [Member]
4/8/2010 12:31:53 PM
Southernrebel,

Could you shoot me an e-mail about that shotgun set up to include your unit?

Thanks



I can just post it right here.

My unit is called the palmetto patriot delta drinking team unit #2.

I was just being an ass like the guy that asked me what shotgun my unit was issued.

I stated plain as day where i heard the info i posted. If it is not correct fine i guess the guys at mossberg dont know what they are talking about.

As for my shotgun from my unit i have a mossberg 590 with pistol grip and a breaching barrel.

DMR  [Team Member]
4/8/2010 1:21:45 PM
I was just attempting to work on something. Since I know which units have the "issue" breaching barrels and they are not technicly on 590's I was hoping to get some feed back. While those units are not stationed in SC(profile) it could just be your home state, not were you live. I didn't realy want to go through the whole thing on a board. So please just ignore me from here on, Thanks for your service.

The milspec call for 3,000 rounds not 2,000. Not a surprise if the guy's back in the factory didn't have the whole number in their head the milspec was passed a LONG time ago. I missed the referance to the TV show or what ever it was, I'd never heard of it before.

The M-1014/Benelli M-4's procurement guidance had a MUCH lower MRBF requirement then the origional shotgun MILSPC, based on all the documents that I have been able to review. While that in no way means the Benelli is less reliable then a pump action shotgun like the Mossberg, the requirements for reliablity were very differant.
southernrebel  [Member]
4/8/2010 1:33:15 PM
So is it accurate to say that the 590 IS the only US made milspec shotgun?

The show i seen it on was called best defense and they were touring the factory and the R&D dept when they were talking about whats i said above.
R0N  [Team Member]
4/8/2010 1:47:09 PM
Originally Posted By southernrebel:
So is it accurate to say that the 590 IS the only US made milspec shotgun?

The show i seen it on was called best defense and they were touring the factory and the R&D dept when they were talking about whats i said above.


No, because there are several specs for shotguns out there.
southernrebel  [Member]
4/8/2010 1:49:12 PM
I stand corrected!
AR15fan  [Team Member]
4/8/2010 2:17:26 PM
590
870
500
M4
BKC1869  [Team Member]
4/8/2010 2:26:31 PM
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
590
870
500
M4


This is what I understand. There are various models being used throughout the different branches.
Papi4baby  [Member]
4/8/2010 2:45:13 PM
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
590
870
500
M4


ANIMUS  [Team Member]
4/8/2010 4:27:56 PM
Originally Posted By southernrebel:
Southernrebel,

Could you shoot me an e-mail about that shotgun set up to include your unit?

Thanks



I can just post it right here.

My unit is called the palmetto patriot delta drinking team unit #2.

I was just being an ass like the guy that asked me what shotgun my unit was issued.

I stated plain as day where i heard the info i posted. If it is not correct fine i guess the guys at mossberg dont know what they are talking about.

As for my shotgun from my unit i have a mossberg 590 with pistol grip and a breaching barrel.



You want to post meaningless quips about what shotgun is "milspec" and continue to argue with guys that know and can answer the OP's question.
The M500 and M1014 are the only two shotguns I've seen in theatre. Obviously, your arguement is meaningless.

southernrebel  [Member]
4/8/2010 5:50:48 PM
Who is arguing? YOU!! I simply stated what i heard/seen from the people that make the weapons!

Who are you to be the end all on the subject anyway? Just because you were/might have been in the military dont make you right!

I said i stand corrected so if you cant accept that then go pound sand!
JoshuaJJackson  [Member]
4/8/2010 5:58:23 PM
My unit uses the Benelli M1014's. From what i've seen in Iraq and Afghanistan the infantry units all use M1014's, although i've seen a couple POGs walking around with different stuff.
dillonivik  [Team Member]
4/8/2010 6:03:10 PM
When i was in an AF Base Honor guard i was the "armorer" (really just cleaned and function checked our M14s). Anyway i was in the base armory quite allot and knew allot of the guys that worked there so i got to wander around and play with stuff. The shotguns i saw were 870s with 20"(?) barrels mag extensions rifle sights and police style wood stocks. But honestly they looked like they hadnt been issued for about 20 years, so i really dont know if the AF deploys with a shotgun at all. But if we did, it would be the 870...
ANIMUS  [Team Member]
4/8/2010 8:45:52 PM
Originally Posted By southernrebel:
Who is arguing? YOU!! I simply stated what i heard/seen from the people that make the weapons!

Who are you to be the end all on the subject anyway? Just because you were/might have been in the military dont make you right!

I said i stand corrected so if you cant accept that then go pound sand!



Someone missed their nap today.
southernrebel  [Member]
4/8/2010 9:06:42 PM
Someone missed their nap today


LMFAO!

Nah i just think you took what i was trying to say the wrong way.

I prolly should have kept the milspec thing to myself but when you hear it right from the source it is hard not to pass it on.
Rick_A  [Member]
4/8/2010 9:25:15 PM
I don't know lately, but a decade ago we trained with these:


(in similar or worse condition, too)
Mikemech  [Member]
4/8/2010 11:29:18 PM
Originally Posted By Rick_A:
I don't know lately, but a decade ago we trained with these:

http://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/remington-870-shotgun.jpg
(in similar or worse condition, too)


Nice pic, if i'm not mistaken......870 maybe? i can't tell without looking at the bolt
Gravity3694  [Member]
4/9/2010 12:32:32 AM

Originally Posted By Mikemech:
Originally Posted By Rick_A:
I don't know lately, but a decade ago we trained with these:

http://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/remington-870-shotgun.jpg
(in similar or worse condition, too)


Nice pic, if i'm not mistaken......870 maybe? i can't tell without looking at the bolt
It's an 870. The most distinguishing is the use of the bayonet adapter, and a magazine extension. If it were a Mossberg then the magazine tube would of been one piece. The pic is from a Marine FAST company in the 90s if I recall correctly.
SevenSixTwoxFiftyOne  [Member]
4/9/2010 1:21:38 AM
its a remington 870 and its missing the front and rear sight and the small tube on the side of the reciver is either the old rem 870 sliding stock or its a rem 870 sage stock , when you can find the rem 870 bayonet attachments they cost almost as much as the 870 itself there was one on gunbroker a couple years ago that sold for 600$ they made two verisons one with rifle sights and one with bead sights the marines got the rifle sighted models and the air force got the bead sighted model , the sliding 870 stocks are out there floating around still but they useally bring a preimium as well 300 was the price on the last one i saw , you can still buy the rem 870 sage stocks though the wood fore grips were special as well, they look like the hunting furniture but they dont have any kind of designs or patterns on them they are smooth as are the wood stocks that they came issued with these parts also cost and arm and a leg when you do find them
scottrh2  [Team Member]
4/25/2010 10:13:00 PM
590A1 is still being used at the main gate to MCAS New River.
XM287  [Member]
4/26/2010 11:15:22 AM
The US military has a gaggle of shotguns. While the M500 and M1014*and variants there of* are going to be the most common, there are plenty of oddballs that likely still exist in the system and may even wander into the field. Shit, M1C and M1D Garands were used early in Afghanistan... USAF selected the HS Fliteking during the 80's and many purchases were made of Winchester 1200's/1300's, Remington 870's and even Benelli M1's.

The M1014 was supposed to be the joint service shotgun, but compared to other guns they are a minority. I know couch commandos who spent 1500.00 on one aren't gonna like this, but there is a mechanical/technical reason the M1014 isn't the standard US shotgun accross the board.
CBR900  [Member]
4/27/2010 4:29:24 PM
Originally Posted By DMR:
Originally Posted By bulletsponge13:
I know of all the ones mentioned, plus one missed:
Winchester 1200. I had one, synthetic furniture and barrel shroud with bayonet mount. I miss it.


good point I over looked. While the Mossberg is the "official" shotgun for the Army you may still find Winchesters and Remingtons in some arms rooms. TACOM issued guidance a few years ago a few years ago to turn in all Winchester 1300's. They are no longer supported by TACOM. Units turning in will have them replaced by Mossbergs. The 870 was also included in the guidance, but was not listed by name as there were fewer then 100 (non-MCS) in the TACOM "system".


Once turned in, will these be sold through the Civilian Marksmanship Program or CMP like Garands and Carbines? (of course - the ones with 18" barrels, not the NFA ones). When can we expect them?
DMR  [Team Member]
4/27/2010 10:11:37 PM
Originally Posted By CBR900:

Once turned in, will these be sold through the Civilian Marksmanship Program or CMP like Garands and Carbines? (of course - the ones with 18" barrels, not the NFA ones). When can we expect them?


CBR900, not going to happen. Might be nice, but it's justnot going to happen. They will go back to depot and sit until someone decides to pull them out again like the M-14 or they get sold over seas.

XM287,

I seriously doubt that any M-1C's or D's were ever issued for the current conflect. They have been out of date since the 60's and many were sold off through the CMP.

Actualy the M-1014 failed to become a "Joint" shotgun before they found out the issueswith the M-1014. One of, if not the main reason, the Army backed out was that the M-1014 would not cycle the full spectrum of lesslethal and breaching ammo. The USMC has been attempting to get anyone to make the M-1014 cycle less lethals for the last few years to no avail. Of course this overlooks the fact that given the current amily of less lethals are compeable to trying to cycle UTM's in you M-4 with a standard M-4 boltvs. the straight blowback UTM bolt.

In the breifings on the M-1014 given in the late 90's at NDIA a interesting stat is in the list. The "required" MRBS's for the M-1014 was only around 450 rds.


Joint Service Combat Shotgun XM1014 (source: NDIA Brief June 1999
COMPETITIVE EVALUATION PLAN
Scored Requirements
• Reliability (MRBF/MRBS)
• Ambient (450 RDS/WPN)
• High Temperature (100 RDS/WPN)
• Low Temperature (150 RDS/WPN)
• Salt Fog Exposure (30 RDS)


MIL-S-3443G (AR) 04 October 1993, the 500/590 is procured under:
3.17.5 Endurance.
3.17.5.1 Lot acceDtance. Shotguns shall be capable of
withstanding the firing of 3,000 rounds with no unserviceable, or
broken parts and no more than three (3) malfunctions using
standard commercial 12-gauge, 2 3/4-inch, O0 buckshot (9
pellets), maximum load shells.


Translated to later/equal terms: MRBS 1000 rnds

Not saying the M-1014 won't do the same just odd the the procurement spec is so much lower for the later shotgun. Understand it being "differant" due to it being written in differant times/agencies.
steinlok87  [Member]
4/28/2010 12:26:08 PM
Are shotguns ever used for close quarters combat?