AR15.Com Archives
 Problems with Rem 870 Tactical Powder Coat UPDATE WITH PICS!!!
cybersniper  [Member]
4/14/2009 4:16:21 PM EST
I just bought a brand new 870 Express Tactical with the new black powder coat finish. I was sceptical about the new finish on a firearm but I really like the look. I just noticed a bubble on the side of the receiver. As I dragged by finger nail over it the finish flaked off like a bad cheap paint job. I will be calling Remington in the morning but I was wondering if this is a known problem or if anyone else has had similar issues.

I havent even shot the dam thing yet. Makes me wonder how its going to hold up on a hot barrel.
Paid Advertisement
--
rogue007  [Team Member]
4/14/2009 8:21:02 PM EST
I had my breacher model for just three days before I used Permatex Gasket Remover to remove all powder coating.............. First off, let me say there is a beautiful black finish underneath that gray crap!


The matte black coating under the powder is awesome, but I went ahead and painted it with gun-kote in OD GREEN.





I load it up with all kinds of stuff and is now my favorite shotgun I have ever owned.




Here is a pic of it without the breacher attached............it doesnt fit in safe with it on while the stock is extended.....if you would like a pic with it on, just let me know.




















Directions for taking off that crappy powder coat––––––––––––––––––––––


1. Go to Autozone and purchase some Permatex Gasket Remover in the gel aerosol can with application brush.

2. Strip the shotgun down fully

3. Apply the gasket remover heavily to every part that is covered with that powder coat, including inside the receiver...........dont be scared, the gasket stuff will not damage anything at all, no corrosion or rusting.

4. when applied, let it soak in for 30 minutes minimum, do not take it off sooner.

5. The powder coating will be completely wrinkled and will be bubblying, scrap it off with a yellow bondo pad/squeegee that you can also buy at autozone.

6. Make sure you get every last spot on the barrel, receiver and inside the receiver...........when everything is removed, clean with Rem-oil and reassemble.

7. You now have a completely new looking shotgun and not that powder coat looking crap that chips off easily.


Lastly, Why in the hell did Remington put that crap on any shotgun?!?!?!?





xm8  [Team Member]
4/14/2009 9:35:56 PM EST
I, like most people with our finish, have had problems, but not with bubbling, only chipping from minor impacts. That means the loading and ejection port will be chipped, no matter how carefully you otherwise handle the gun. Mine is an 870 Desert TAC Recon and the heat hasn't affected the finish on the barrel yet. I don't think Remington will warranty it but it sure doesn't hurt to ask. I've just gotten over it after a while, and if it makes you feel better, I paid a heck of a lot more than you, and the only thing I got feature-wise that you didn't was a Speedfeed stock. Also, my FDE / olive drab color makes the chipping stand out much more. The powder coating is a great idea on paper (the standard Express finish is a bit rough), but it seems to have been executed very poorly.
F22_RaptoR  [Team Member]
4/14/2009 9:45:37 PM EST
Parkerizing is an awesome basecoat for paint, but they should have used a high temperature epoxy based paint.


I have painted a few parkerized things with epoxy based paint, and it stays on VERY well!
cybersniper  [Member]
4/15/2009 4:26:40 AM EST
I talked to Rem today and they did not hesitate to have me ship it back.

We'll see what they say and go from there. I love the look of the gun but dont want it looking like crap in a few years. For the aggravation and cost involved in stripping it off and refinishing it, I'll just buy a 870 police magnum in parked finish.
rogue007  [Team Member]
4/17/2009 10:28:44 AM EST
Originally Posted By cybersniper:
I talked to Rem today and they did not hesitate to have me ship it back.

We'll see what they say and go from there. I love the look of the gun but dont want it looking like crap in a few years. For the aggravation and cost involved in stripping it off and refinishing it, I'll just buy a 870 police magnum in parked finish.






I guess you didnt read my post....................... There already is a beautiful PARKED finish underneath that crappy powder-coat...................use the gasket remover from permatex and take it off..........you will not be disappointed.
imortal  [Member]
4/17/2009 5:52:44 PM EST
Originally Posted By cybersniper:
I talked to Rem today and they did not hesitate to have me ship it back.

We'll see what they say and go from there. I love the look of the gun but dont want it looking like crap in a few years. For the aggravation and cost involved in stripping it off and refinishing it, I'll just buy a 870 police magnum in parked finish.


Let me know if you ship it back and how it works out. I have an 870 in their Powder Coat grey, and it chips just by looking at it hard. It would be interesting to know if a bad lot went out, and they manage to fix it.
xm8  [Team Member]
4/17/2009 6:06:01 PM EST
Originally Posted By imortal:
Let me know if you ship it back and how it works out. I have an 870 in their Powder Coat grey, and it chips just by looking at it hard. It would be interesting to know if a bad lot went out, and they manage to fix it.


From everything I've read here and elsewhere on the interwebs, it sounds like all powder coated 870s are like that and not just a bad batch.
cybersniper  [Member]
4/19/2009 4:43:18 PM EST
Originally Posted By rogue007:
I guess you didnt read my post....................... There already is a beautiful PARKED finish underneath that crappy powder-coat...................use the gasket remover from permatex and take it off..........you will not be disappointed.



Well. I think my blood pressure went up 100 points while doing it but I followed Rougue007's advice. As you can see in the first pic I was able to start scraping off the powder coat with my finger nail. As stated the parkerizing underneath was beautiful (Powder coat on the left)



So, out came the can of gasket remover. When I saw what it did to the barrel I think my heart stopped for the 30 mins I was waiting for it to fully work. Looks like burnt skin comming off.


I scraped it down, wipped it down, washed it down with hot water, dried it with a hair dryer, at oiled it throughly. I couldnt be more happy with the results. Its a nice dark park. These pics are the final product.




Please spread the word about this abomination of a powder coat that Remington is using. I will be writting them a nice letter asking them to quit f__king up nice 870s with that finish. The park underneath is perfect for that gun. I dont know who's dumb ass idea that was at Remington.

Seems alittle thinner park than my other factory parked 870. But it looks great. Taking that crap off really smoothed out the action too as it was real stiff with that crap in the receiver.

Thanks Rougue007 for the advice. I really had put alot of trust in your words and it came out great.
adrock1978  [Team Member]
4/19/2009 5:22:06 PM EST
Tag for use later.

Gun looks good now dude. I have the same one on the way. Hopefully I'll have the balls to do this.
rogue007  [Team Member]
4/19/2009 7:03:05 PM EST
I told you so.............................Looks great doesnt it?





The park is also great for a base coat for paints.
F22_RaptoR  [Team Member]
4/19/2009 8:39:24 PM EST
Originally Posted By rogue007:
I told you so.............................Looks great doesnt it?





The park is also great for a base coat for paints.


big plus 1

As I said already, I used an epoxy based "automotive" paint on a parkerized part, and even after an hour, i couldn't even scratch it off with the tip of a metal file. (using light pressure, of course)


But that looks a WHOLE lot better stripped, and with the bare Park job, than it did with the powder coating. I wonder what possessed Remmington to actually USE that powder coat in the first place
xm8  [Team Member]
4/19/2009 8:56:39 PM EST
Amazing stuff, I just might consider this, well maybe after my warranty expires.
StevenH  [Team Member]
4/20/2009 2:24:13 AM EST
Are all new 870 express guns "powder" coated?
imortal  [Member]
4/20/2009 3:14:28 AM EST
Originally Posted By F22_RaptoR:
Originally Posted By rogue007:
I told you so.............................Looks great doesnt it?





The park is also great for a base coat for paints.


big plus 1

As I said already, I used an epoxy based "automotive" paint on a parkerized part, and even after an hour, i couldn't even scratch it off with the tip of a metal file. (using light pressure, of course)


But that looks a WHOLE lot better stripped, and with the bare Park job, than it did with the powder coating. I wonder what possessed Remmington to actually USE that powder coat in the first place


Yeah, a Remington VP came by a local store recently. Apparently, he told the people there that the Powder Coat was "the wave of the future." I missed seeing him by about an hour, so I could not give him my perspective.
adrock1978  [Team Member]
4/20/2009 3:38:11 AM EST
When you spray the receiver inside and out, are there any small spots inside to watch for, or scrape out? Or does the Permatex do the job?
rogue007  [Team Member]
4/20/2009 3:50:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By adrock1978:
When you spray the receiver inside and out, are there any small spots inside to watch for, or scrape out? Or does the Permatex do the job?


All you have to do is lay down the Permatex in all areas, it will not harm any part or metal.................inside the receiver it is mostly on the edges of the receiver, go ahead and spread it all over inside, just to be sure.



The Permatex Gasket Remover will come in a aerosol type container, but it will have a brush on the tip, you push down on the button and out comes the liquid through the bristles of the brush. make sure you shake the can hard before releasing any fluids to mix it up.


lay down the liquid on all powder coat covered parts and wait 30 minutes minimum, do not try to take it off before............the directions on the can say to wait 15 minutes, this isnt true for powder coats as we are not using it for real gaskets.



Any other questions are appreciated.
rogue007  [Team Member]
4/20/2009 3:57:49 AM EST
The Permatex Gasket Remover I recommend is located at AUTOZONE................................here is a pic of what I used, and what I also recommend due to us being successful thus far.










(DISCLAIMER)

Any other product I do not recommend, being that nobody has confirmed it would work yet......................somebody might try another product, but I do not want to hear that another product completely destroyed the entire finish, so I suggest you stick with what is being shown here.
bankfraudguy  [Member]
4/20/2009 3:59:21 AM EST
Funny, I just got done doing the same thing to my new 870 Tac last night. A small chip near the ejection port led to "smoothing" it with a dremel just a bit, which ultimately led me to stripping the entire firearm. ( I use a can of carb cleaner). the "powdercoat" came off easier than spray paint. I couldn't stop though, and smoothed out all the corners and such with a sanding drum.

Now the tan rattlecan paint job is curing. If it ends up sucking, I guess I'll send it out for a pro job.
cybersniper  [Member]
4/20/2009 4:20:23 AM EST
I used the larger spray can of gasket remover. The above brush can would have been handy. I was able to just wipe most of it off and used a small nylon brush for the corners.
cybersniper  [Member]
4/20/2009 4:22:26 AM EST
Originally Posted By StevenH:
Are all new 870 express guns "powder" coated?


From their web site and product catalog only the 870 Express Tactical has it. Hopefully they dont add it to others. I bought an Express 20ga a few months ago and it was regular park.

us-kiwi  [Team Member]
4/20/2009 4:56:43 AM EST
This is very interesting.

I have/run a small powder coating shop.
Without actually having 'hands on' to this stripping operation, it LOOKS
to me as the Rem. stuff is not really 'powder coat'.

True powder coat is a 2-part thermoset chemical reaction, and once cured,
basically has no known solvents - at least to me.
It is either epoxy, polyester, or a hybrid of these.
I wish there was/is a solvent for powder coat, would make my life a lot easier.

I think that the Remington coating is some sort of paint, possibly baked on.
And the reason for the chipping/peeling/scraping is simply lack of surface prep.
Perhaps they applied the top coat after the parkerized part was oiled up, as a light oil
coating is an essential part of the parkerize process.

To my knowledge, a good iron phosphate coating is an excellent base for powder coat.
I do not know about the performance of manganese or zinc phosphate, which is what
parkerizing is. I have not heard of it as a prep. treatment in the powder industry.

Good, well applied powder coat finish just plain does not come off like that.

I will try the gasket remover on some of my powder coat to see what happens.
and will post my results here, if anybody is interested.


ETA
Didn't mean to hijack your thread, or ramble on about powder................
cybersniper  [Member]
4/20/2009 5:06:08 AM EST
I did some online searching and reading on this before I actulaly got the balls to do it. There is quite a bit of posts around, specially in he dirt bike forums (guess they like to change colors alot) that Permantex Gasket Remover is the only thing that will strip powder coat like this. Others have tried other brands and they have not worked.
Beater9C1  [Member]
4/20/2009 6:25:36 AM EST
Is that really parkerizing or just the matte blue finish?
cybersniper  [Member]
4/20/2009 9:07:43 AM EST
It looks and feels like park to me. Alot like my other 870 which I know is parked. I have a matte blued mossberg and its nothing like that.
NIHILator  [Member]
4/20/2009 9:39:19 AM EST
I do powder coating myself. Powder coat is very tough, hard to scratch or chip. I've never heard of anybody powdering over top of another finish. You blast a part to bare metal before you do a powder finish. Then use a special cleaner to remove any contaminants. The only reason i would know of for powder to come loose would be grease or oil on the surface before the powder was applied.

Properly applied powder coat takes a sand blaster to remove. I don't know what you guys got there, but properly done powder coat it is not.
imortal  [Member]
4/20/2009 9:44:55 AM EST
They may just CALL this powder coating then, since you an easily remove it with a fingernail. Most of just don't have the patience for that, hence the gasket remover.
SandHillsHillbilly  [Team Member]
4/20/2009 9:57:16 AM EST
I too am familiar with powder coating process. I have examined the new 870. The finish actually appears to be just a baked on enamel type of process. It is not true powder coating. True powder coating can not be removed with gasket remover or oven cleaner. The problem Remington is having is that the surface finish is not bonding to the base finish. Since the surface finish is hard it will tend to flake off rather than peel. It will also chip easily in areas not bonded well. I see maybe a possible recall if the finish complaints persist. To those that sent theirs back, please let us know what the new finish is like
NIHILator  [Member]
4/20/2009 10:43:57 AM EST
They may just CALL this powder coating then, since you an easily remove it with a fingernail.


Real powder coat, properly applied, cannot even be scratched with a fingernail, much less removed.

Powdercoat is commonly used in underhood applications on cars specifically for its ability for extended exposure to solvents without being adversely affected. There is no way whatever that barrel is coated with was powdercoat, what with the way it came off like that.

Real powder coat could be used with great success on firearms, as long as one avoided thickness issues. I plan on powdering my AR build when i gather all the parts, as Anodizing is a pretty puny coating compared to powder.
cybersniper  [Member]
4/20/2009 12:58:25 PM EST
From Remingtons web site. They are selling two finishes on the 870 Express Tactical. One that looks grey and one black. Heres what they call it.
12 7 18 1/2" Rem™ Choke * Single Bead Grey Powder Coat 38 1/2" 7 1/2 81202
12 7 18 1/2" Rem™ Choke * XS Ghost Ring Blasted Black Oxide 38 1/2" 7 1/2 81198

870 Tac

The Remington label on the box that mine came in says "Matte Black PC"

I'd like to see someone in the PC industry try and remove PC with Permantex to see if it works on correctly applied known PC.
FMD  [Team Member]
4/20/2009 2:14:49 PM EST
Originally Posted By Beater9C1:
Is that really parkerizing or just the matte blue finish?


It's an Express. I'd put my money on matte blued.

imortal  [Member]
4/20/2009 4:25:57 PM EST
Originally Posted By FMD:
Originally Posted By Beater9C1:
Is that really parkerizing or just the matte blue finish?


It's an Express. I'd put my money on matte blued.



I already put my money on it. It is NOT matte blued. It looks to be parkerized. There is a texture difference, you see.
adrock1978  [Team Member]
4/20/2009 6:18:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By cybersniper:
From Remingtons web site. They are selling two finishes on the 870 Express Tactical. One that looks grey and one black. Heres what they call it.
12 7 18 1/2" Rem™ Choke * Single Bead Grey Powder Coat 38 1/2" 7 1/2 81202
12 7 18 1/2" Rem™ Choke * XS Ghost Ring Blasted Black Oxide 38 1/2" 7 1/2 81198

870 Tac

The Remington label on the box that mine came in says "Matte Black PC"

I'd like to see someone in the PC industry try and remove PC with Permantex to see if it works on correctly applied known PC.


So can anyone confirm that the "black oxide" on the XS gun has the same chipping problem? The OP had the single bead 870. I've definitely seen a difference in finishes bewteen the two new tactical models... which is another question. Why bother with two finishes on two very similar guns? Maybe the XS gun was an improvement over the first model? It is newer...
FMD  [Team Member]
4/20/2009 6:23:52 PM EST
Originally Posted By imortal:
Originally Posted By FMD:
Originally Posted By Beater9C1:
Is that really parkerizing or just the matte blue finish?


It's an Express. I'd put my money on matte blued.



I already put my money on it. It is NOT matte blued. It looks to be parkerized. There is a texture difference, you see.


I've seen quite a few, and there is a big difference between the parkerized 870Ps and the newer Express and Express Tacticals. The latter are simply bluing over a rough texture. I'd put money on the "powder coat" (normal paint) being applied over bluing.

ETA:

Originally Posted By adrock1978:
Originally Posted By cybersniper:
From Remingtons web site. They are selling two finishes on the 870 Express Tactical. One that looks grey and one black. Heres what they call it.
12 7 18 1/2" Rem™ Choke * Single Bead Grey Powder Coat 38 1/2" 7 1/2 81202
12 7 18 1/2" Rem™ Choke * XS Ghost Ring Blasted Black Oxide 38 1/2" 7 1/2 81198

870 Tac

The Remington label on the box that mine came in says "Matte Black PC"

I'd like to see someone in the PC industry try and remove PC with Permantex to see if it works on correctly applied known PC.


So can anyone confirm that the "black oxide" on the XS gun has the same chipping problem? The OP had the single bead 870. I've definitely seen a difference in finishes bewteen the two new tactical models... which is another question. Why bother with two finishes on two very similar guns? Maybe the XS gun was an improvement over the first model? It is newer...


"Black Oxide" is bluing.

I've had in my hands one of the newer Express Tacticals that had a black coating on it that was over top of the bluing. I can't say for certain what it was (probably the same paint as the gray models, just a different color) but it was not the model with the XS sights.
msprooch  [Team Member]
4/22/2009 8:49:32 AM EST
Mines on order TAG.
cybersniper  [Member]
4/23/2009 10:09:33 AM EST
Any of you powder coat guys get a chance to test this stuff yet?
rogue007  [Team Member]
4/25/2009 3:14:00 AM EST
Originally Posted By cybersniper:
Any of you powder coat guys get a chance to test this stuff yet?





I actually tried it last night on a piece on sway bar on my Jeep ( it is aftermaket and powdercoated very heavily).......................I let the permatex gasket remover sit on there for thirty miuntes and...............







It bubbled right off!
OsirisX  [Member]
4/25/2009 6:55:21 AM EST
Ok Guys I'm a little confused I have the gray textured coating will this work on that too? Is it the same thing? I don't like the look but picked it up because I got a good price.
Omaha-BeenGlockin  [Member]
4/25/2009 7:41:48 AM EST
The 870 he stripped had the gray coated finish.
imortal  [Member]
4/25/2009 10:41:09 AM EST
And now, the important question is, what is the most effective type of non-bake coating can we put on to replace the PC coat? I kind of like the grey color, but would like to see if I can get it a shade or two darker. What are the "best" brands to use?
F22_RaptoR  [Team Member]
4/25/2009 10:45:40 AM EST
I have used BBQ paint for a few things. you just spray it on, when you go shooting it will fully cure when it gets hot (which shotgun barrels do VERY fast) and then will withstand temperatures up to 650 degrees C. Even without being cured, its still VERY solid stuff. I did a heat shield with it, and I ended up damaging the heat shield, so I bent it in half, and the paint didn't chip or flake at all!

For the rest, if you use a regular auto enamel based paint, just make sure you leave it for the recommended time on the can before you do any funky stuff with it.



But make sure to clean the crap out of it before. Get EVERY LITTLE BIT of oil off and out of the barrel!!!


CLP will soak into the barrel and slowly bring shit out within 7 days or so, and then you can use a non chlorinated brake cleaner, or flux stripper or something to clean it off fully.


I dont think you need to use CLP if you dont want too, but at least make sure you use a powerful degreaser on the parkerized parts.
OsirisX  [Member]
4/25/2009 1:00:03 PM EST
OK Thank You Omaha, i think i'm gonna strip mine tonight then... I'll take pics :)
Beater9C1  [Member]
4/25/2009 1:08:41 PM EST
Originally Posted By cybersniper:
Originally Posted By rogue007:
I guess you didnt read my post....................... There already is a beautiful PARKED finish underneath that crappy powder-coat...................use the gasket remover from permatex and take it off..........you will not be disappointed.



Well. I think my blood pressure went up 100 points while doing it but I followed Rougue007's advice. As you can see in the first pic I was able to start scraping off the powder coat with my finger nail. As stated the parkerizing underneath was beautiful (Powder coat on the left)
http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/1263/870tacchippingu.jpg


So, out came the can of gasket remover. When I saw what it did to the barrel I think my heart stopped for the 30 mins I was waiting for it to fully work. Looks like burnt skin comming off.
http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/4214/870tacbarrel.jpg




I scraped it down, wipped it down, washed it down with hot water, dried it with a hair dryer, at oiled it throughly. I couldnt be more happy with the results. Its a nice dark park. These pics are the final product.
http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/1937/870tac.jpg

http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/2715/870tacsideclose.jpg

Please spread the word about this abomination of a powder coat that Remington is using. I will be writting them a nice letter asking them to quit f__king up nice 870s with that finish. The park underneath is perfect for that gun. I dont know who's dumb ass idea that was at Remington.

Seems alittle thinner park than my other factory parked 870. But it looks great. Taking that crap off really smoothed out the action too as it was real stiff with that crap in the receiver.

Thanks Rougue007 for the advice. I really had put alot of trust in your words and it came out great.


This 870 would look great with a police walnut stock set

LUX  [Member]
4/25/2009 4:18:49 PM EST
That's not parkerized. The only 870's that are parkerized say "POLICE" on the reciever. What is under the "tactical" finish is Remington's matte blue "blasted oxide" finish that comes on all express grade 870's. All parked 870's will have a very smooth(same metal prep as Wingmaster) flat black to slate gray finish.
OsirisX  [Member]
4/26/2009 9:21:08 PM EST
Thanks alot guys, i hated the finish on this gun, looks just like the powdercoat finish on my bedframe.... here is before

and after... so much better....

msprooch  [Team Member]
4/27/2009 5:05:35 AM EST
Looks good.
msprooch  [Team Member]
6/29/2009 4:56:50 PM EST
So I have put over a 120 rounds through my new 870 express tac. with the grs and the blasted black oxid finish and not a scratch nick or any sort of problems with the finish.

It must only be the grey powder coat.



Visable-assassin  [Member]
6/29/2009 8:27:21 PM EST
i wasnt happy with the stock finish on my 870 so i just sent it off to Bobby at Salbo arms and had him refinish it in matte black with custom colored action bars and bolt for shits and grins.
out of the box it looked great but even after being wiped down with breakfree for storage the factory finish would still rust thru something fierce. After Salbo's work this thing can never seeo il and never rust...im happy.
Sadly tho im gonna have it refinished since its going to Vangcomp for some work...shoulda though bout that from jump oops.
Paid Advertisement
--