AR15.Com Archives
 Sage International Sidewinder
0ldGuy  [Team Member]
2/10/2008 6:04:45 PM
I find myself coveting PursuitSS' shotgun. I cannot aquire one from Sage like he did so I am left trying to pursue it on my own.

I like opinions on this. I am thinking of combining the Remington 1100 with parts from the Remington Model 58 to achieve the folding stock option I want.

Check out the 58 diagram in the link. Looks like I should be able to get it done.

www.gun-parts.com/remingtonshotgun/Image001.jpg
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Tango7  [Member]
2/10/2008 11:40:27 PM
I too have coveted my brother's shotty. I had made the suggestion that he measure out the parts that Sage used so we someone with a mind might try to reproduce the necessary parts.

I would offer the suggestion that any work done from this info would have to be a DIY project for one's self (not making for someone else for profit). Since Sage isn't doing this mod anymore, as long as nobody starts making "Bubba Joe Bob's Short Stocked Remmy" for profit using their tech they shouldn't have too much room to bitch.

(I wonder if they'd be willing to license the materials to a machine shop for owners to do a DIY, but I'm not sure what receiver mods are required if any)
0ldGuy  [Team Member]
2/11/2008 8:54:49 AM
My goal is an 18" 1100 with a folding stock. Kansas law does not allow otherwise and I really have no need for such a "specialized tool" as Pursuit does..

I could purchase a 58 off Gunbroker install a folding stock and be done with it but I have heard that 58 receivers were prone to cracking.

I am looking for a used 58 at present to strip and compare the parts to my 1100 before presenting the idea to a local gunsmith.

I am hoping that with the 18" barrel the modifications will not have to be extensive.

PursuitSS  [Member]
2/11/2008 11:04:15 PM
Someone was supposed to post the dimensions off of their Sidewinder. I'll get off my lazy butt and start posting measurements.

I don't think you want a Remington Model 58, they only hold TWO ROUNDS in the tube. The reason is that the gas system is INSIDE the magazine tube. Click on this link and then click on the right side drawing, it will give you an idea of how the gas system works.

shop.vendio.com/ggardenour/item/744409272/?s=1202643070

It's easy to fix the receiver cracking problem, you just mill a relief cut the same as the 1100 has. But the Model 58 was NEVER known for its reliability.

The ONLY solution is to clone a Sidewinder.

PursuitSS
PursuitSS  [Member]
2/11/2008 11:09:34 PM

Originally Posted By Tango7:
but I'm not sure what receiver mods are required if any)


The ONLY modification to the receiver is to cut off the recoil spring guide tube (the tube inside the buttstock) and weld a nut to the rear of the receiver where the tube was (the same location where threads are cut on the rear of an 870 where the buttstock attaches)

That is why you can use ANY 870 buttstock on a Sidewinder.

PursuitSS
PursuitSS  [Member]
2/11/2008 11:40:51 PM
The main difference between a stock Remington 1100 and a Sage International Sidewinder is:



Hopefully this link will work to my photobucket album of detailed photos of the Sidewinder action parts:

s135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/PursuitSS/Sidewinder/

PursuitSS
DMR  [Team Member]
2/12/2008 6:37:48 AM
Old Guy,

Have you looked at getting an old Mossberg 9200 off of Gunbroker or some such place then putting the folding stock on it.

While I'm not positive I believe that they take standard 500/590 stocks. I do know that Royal Arms was selling a Pistol Grip only 9200 Breacher for a long time. It is still listed on their website, despite the 9200 being out of production.

0ldGuy  [Team Member]
2/12/2008 11:02:37 AM

Originally Posted By PursuitSS:
.

I don't think you want a Remington Model 58, they only hold TWO ROUNDS in the tube. The reason is that the gas system is INSIDE the magazine tube.

I can live with the two round magazize capacity as I never intentionly place my self in harms way as the police must do. Reliabilty and storage considerations are my priorities. Which is why I thought of mating the 58 recoil system to the 1100. The 1100 has never failed me


It's easy to fix the receiver cracking problem, you just mill a relief cut the same as the 1100 has. But the Model 58 was NEVER known for its reliability.


I aware of the receiver problem and its fix but am unaware of any other problems.

The ONLY solution is to clone a Sidewinder.

I agree 100% but that takes talent and that is becoming hard to find in a gunsmith. When you do find it, it is usually cost prohibitive.

PursuitSS
BadKarma555  [Member]
2/12/2008 12:48:59 PM

Originally Posted By DMR:
Old Guy,

Have you looked at getting an old Mossberg 9200 off of Gunbroker or some such place then putting the folding stock on it.

While I'm not positive I believe that they take standard 500/590 stocks. I do know that Royal Arms was selling a Pistol Grip only 9200 Breacher for a long time. It is still listed on their website, despite the 9200 being out of production.



I'm not sure about the 9200 taking 500/590 stocks. I will let you know, probably by the weekend. I've ordered the Mossy Viking Green stock and forearm for my Jungle Gun(what better color for a Jungle Gun?). I have a PG stock I can try on it. Choate does make a folding stock for the 9200's.

Mossy 9200
http://www.e-gunparts.com/productschem.asp?chrMasterModel=0840z9200

BK
DMR  [Team Member]
2/12/2008 2:00:26 PM
Keep it Simple Havlin Sales has side folders for the 9200:

synthetic stock spacer $10 (required if converting your 9200 from wood)
pistol grip for 5500/9200 $27
side folding stock $109


BadKarma555  [Member]
2/12/2008 2:49:51 PM
I just ordered the viking green stock and mag ext for my 9200a1 from Victor at Havlin, last night.

Now my Jungle Gun will match my Middy AR.
Tango7  [Member]
2/13/2008 5:00:06 PM
Will the action bar from an 870 work in lieu of a custom one?
PursuitSS  [Member]
2/13/2008 9:24:06 PM

Originally Posted By Tango7:
Will the action bar from an 870 work in lieu of a custom one?


Don't think so. The action bar used by Sage is a modified 1100 action bar. One problem I have is I don't have a stock 1100 to compare the modified Sage parts to.

If you check out the link to the photos I posted I have three pictures of the modified area of the action bar, bottom, side, & top.

Compare the parts diagram (stock) against the modified parts.



PursuitSS
PursuitSS  [Member]
2/13/2008 9:42:54 PM
As I've stated before.............modifying an 1100 to a Sidewinder isn't going to be difficult.

Obtaining a recoil/action spring is!

If the patents that Sage has have expired there MIGHT be a market. When I could still get Sidewinders I ordered one for a good friend of mine. He sent in a regular 1100, bright blue finish with numerous scratches, chrome bolt, stupid looking stamped "engraving" in the side of the receiver. We ordered the 14.5" SBS conversion. When he decided to sell it on Subguns board he asked $1,000.00. It lasted LESS than TEN MINUTES! He had email after email wanting it. This was around 7-10 years ago.

I suspect the value has actually dropped somewhat. The Tromix style Saigas didn't exist at that time.

PursuitSS
rcr29  [Team Member]
2/13/2008 10:33:27 PM
Thanks for the pics PursuitSS. Do you think it would be feasible to use an action spring from a Remington Model 11 in a Sidewinder conversion?
PursuitSS  [Member]
2/13/2008 11:28:10 PM

Originally Posted By rcr29:
Thanks for the pics PursuitSS. Do you think it would be feasible to use an action spring from a Remington Model 11 in a Sidewinder conversion?


I have no idea, I would have to see the spring to see if it is even close. I suspect Sage had a custom spring manufactured.

PursuitSS
rcr29  [Team Member]
2/13/2008 11:46:06 PM
From your pics, the model 11 spring looks much flatter and thicker (from what I can remember off hand) than the Sage spring. I will tear apart my Model 11 this weekend and get a pic of the spring.
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