High Standard 10B
Has anyone out there ever had any experience with this gun? I'm interested in feedback as to function, what breaks or wears out, etc.
The High Standard 10A and 10B were good ideas, but failed in the performance area.
The problem with them was reliability issues.
The guns HAD to be used full high-brass full power loads, and even then developed a bad reputation for jamming.
Not all these bullpups had problems, but enough did that the gun had a bad rep, and that, combined with the high price killed it with the police market.
In it's later years, after the police stopped buying, High Standard began selling the gun to the civilian market, and the complaints about reliability and warranty repairs contributed to High Standard going broke.
The gun is heavy and bulky. It can only be shot by right-handed people, and the weight, bulk, and clumsy shape make it difficult to handle and shoot.
If you can get one that is reliable, it's quite usable in confined spaces, although shooting it one-handed with the butt plate rotated to rest on the inner elbow area can be painful.
Parts for the 10A and B series are still available from Gun Parts Corporation, and at one time there were magazine extension kits available for them.
The bottom line is, it was a good idea that suffered from notoriously poor reliability and a price too high for most police department to pay.
Due to it's more or less special use design, it wasn't suitable for general use, and most departments quickly found out that it failed too often to trust.
As far as parts problems, the major weaknesses were problems with the 10A's internal flashlight, the 10B's carrying handle being too prone to damage, the folding front sight being easily damaged, really bad trigger pulls, and occasional problems with the safety not functioning properly, both due to the long bullpup trigger linkage.
Apparently, another company has plans to begin making either a complete gun or a kit to convert the Remington 11-87 to a bull pup.
This would probably be a far more reliable design than the High Standard.
Thanks for the information. After doing some websearching the 11-87 does seem to be a really good choice. If you happen to find out anything more about a bullpup conversion for this gun I'd really appreciate hearing about it.
It was somebody who belongs to this forum, and who owns a gun-related company.
I can't remember who it was, but he posted the news in a post within the last 2 months.
I can't do a search that long ago, so I can't find it.
Not to dispute the O' Wise DFarris (who does know a lot about shotguns) But from a fist hand souce I've add....
My High Standard 10s (I've owned both 10-A and 10-B) were good dependable shotguns.
True, they were Designed and specificied for Stout High Brass Loads ONLY. Shoot low brass light loads and you have a single shot! It is like every other gas operated shotgun of the 60's. It needs to be kept clean after prolonged shooting. Cops tend to be beasts to their guns, and many were neglected, abused, uncleaned ect... When treated badly, the shotguns did not perform well. About the only shotguns to consistanly survive the "Cop Abuse Test" are the legandary pump gun trio of the Winchester Model 12, the Ithaca 37, and the Remington 870. If I were going into the Nasty Gumbo, I wouldn't take my HS-10 (but then again I wouldn't take ANY auto shotgun including my 11/87 or Benellis either!) I'd take good old plain jane works everytime 870 Thank You Very Much!
However, my High Standard 10's rocked and rolled everytime I pulled the trigger and then some! Recoil was manageable (the straight back recoil path that the stock provides really helps) but the hard rotating butt plate is none too forgiving compared to the newer softer pads.
You can shoot it one handed (Yee-HAAAA!) so you could unleash a stream of buckshot from astride your motorcycle (Road Warriors take note!!) but reloading is a definite two hander.
The big drawback to the High Standards (and what really killed them off in the police market) is that High Standard refused to produce the guns with extended magazines. Easy to have done it, but High Standard refused. The bull pup design just screamed for this feature, but .... High Standard said NO! Like all orgainisms that refuse to adapt to their surroundings, High Standard went the way of the dinosaurs (probablly same problem - pea sized brains!!)
The guns are neat shooters - but are they really practical.... not really. Parts are available from Numrich and others, but getting scarce.
Parts that wear out are the shell feed latches, the trigger sears, ) flashlights nearly always broken on the 10-A, 10-B's seem to be more dependable for what that is worth!
A neat gun to shoot but needed more deveopement.
Just my two cents from an Owner and Operator of the Hardware! BIGGER_HAMMER
Could the flashlight be replaced with something a bit more up to date like a SureFire or Maglight?
Hopefully who ever it is that's making the bullpup conversion will see this post and get curious. Either that or I'll have to stop being a deadbeat and pay up!
The 10A light can't be replaced since it's built into the carry handle.
The 10B light can be replaced. It's attached to the left side of the housing.
The actual light was a flashlight that had a mount attached to it. It was simply attached to the housing by a thumb screw.
As long as you can find an adapter and attach it to the light, it should work.
Here's a link to owner's manuals for both the Model 10A and B guns:www.stevespages.com/page7b.htm
I wonder how close the upper and lower covers as well as the pistol grip would come to fitting on an 11-87. They're availabe from GunParts. As for the trigger linkage that wouldn't be hard to work on. I've played with a few centergrip bolt action pistols that had long linkage from the trigger mechanism to the trigger.
dfariswheel mentioned that at one time someone was making a magazine extension for them; does anyone happen to have any idea who it was or ever where I could start a search? I already tried google without any luck.
I just can't remember who made the 10B extension kit.
I have heard references to a "Garth Choate" 10B extension.
You might email Choate and ask if they might make you an extension.
I've had good luck emailing them, and usually get an answer from a Choate family member.www.riflestock.com/
Been There and tried that!
CHOATE machine & Tool used to make a mag extenstion LONG ago but nothing now!
There is a guy in CT. with the High Standards Collecting Club who was having some custom made (the diameter of the tube was very unique and was going to have to be custome turned to be the correct diametere.
I had a mag extension on my HS-10A that was a converted HS pump gun tube that was mated to a double threaded collar to the original mag tube. Worked O.K. but never really was "right" if you know what I mean BIGGER_HAMMER
Is the mag tube larger or smaller in diameter than most tubes?
I found a longer magazine tube with spring and follower. There's a guy on the High Standard forum that still has a few of them.
Does anyone know the length of pull?