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 TRP - what parts are MIM?
ThrowingDown  [Member]
5/24/2008 6:55:28 PM
Just like the post says, on a SA TRP, what parts are MIM?
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beltfed74  [Team Member]
5/24/2008 10:44:45 PM
Sear, hammer, slidestop, grip safety, grip safety, firing pin stop. Other than the sear and hammer being kind of dissapointing mainly from a trigger job point of view the MIM stuff is whats usually cast stuff from everyone else.

FWIW Ive never heard from a reliable source of SA MIM breaking. I did replace some of it in my TRP though.
intruder13  [Member]
5/25/2008 3:18:03 PM

Originally Posted By beltfed74:
Sear, hammer, slidestop, grip safety, grip safety, firing pin stop. Other than the sear and hammer being kind of dissapointing mainly from a trigger job point of view the MIM stuff is whats usually cast stuff from everyone else.

FWIW Ive never heard from a reliable source of SA MIM breaking. I did replace some of it in my TRP though.

You forgot magazine release. (TRP owner myself). Possibly the mainspring housing.

And what do you mean "MIM stuff is what's usually cast stuff from everyone else"? I thought, besides Colt, and non-production guns, all the other manufacturers were pretty much the same; some have softer metal in the frames or cast frames (RIA and Wilson budget models).
bullitt5172  [Team Member]
5/25/2008 3:48:57 PM

Originally Posted By intruder13:

Originally Posted By beltfed74:
Sear, hammer, slidestop, grip safety, grip safety, firing pin stop. Other than the sear and hammer being kind of dissapointing mainly from a trigger job point of view the MIM stuff is whats usually cast stuff from everyone else.

FWIW Ive never heard from a reliable source of SA MIM breaking. I did replace some of it in my TRP though.

You forgot magazine release. (TRP owner myself). Possibly the mainspring housing.

And what do you mean "MIM stuff is what's usually cast stuff from everyone else"? I thought, besides Colt, and non-production guns, all the other manufacturers were pretty much the same; some have softer metal in the frames or cast frames (RIA and Wilson budget models).


Your right, nearly 100% of production 1911's are full of MIM. Not a huge issue IMO. The TRP dosen't have any internals that are not MIM.

Oh, and Wilson doesn't make a "budget line" of 1911's that use cast frames. The railed CQB has a high quality cast Caspian frame.
HAIL-CAESAR  [Member]
5/26/2008 1:26:33 AM
If MIM doesn't break in the first 100 rounds you are usually good for several thousand. If anyone hasn't heard of MIM breaking might want to talk to a smith or shoot more. Between myself and the smith in the next town, we got a box full of them. I gut any MIM as soon as I buy a pistol or never let it near ones I build. YRMV
beltfed74  [Team Member]
5/26/2008 10:58:37 AM
Intruder, what I meant to say was that MIM parts are usually cast in some companies if theyre not MIM. My Colts have a cast thumb and grip safety and slidestop and did come with plastic mainspring housings.

As for broken MIM, Ive never seen any Springfield MIM break and I shoot a lot.
DoubleARon  [Member]
5/26/2008 11:32:10 AM
Before you throw a couple hundred dollars at a problem that doesn't exist, why don't you shoot it til they break?
HAIL-CAESAR  [Member]
5/26/2008 2:34:12 PM
MIM does break at an alarming rate more that bar stock. I have seen to much of it to trust MIM. I also replace my tires before they get thin and blow out, it's my insurance. If your a range blaster, MIM and no maintenance will work because a broke part or stoppages just sent you home. If you carry for a living or for your right to life MIM and no preventative maintenance might send you home to Jesus. The 3 guns I regularly carry have schedules that parts get changed. In cleaning inspections if anything looks worn or suspicious it gets replaced pronto. Springs, slide stops, hammers, sears,links,pins,bushings,extractors,ejectors , everything has a service life. And I want to get to them before Murphy's law does. A working handgun/rifle that breaks is a embarrassment that I don't want in front of St. Peter.
Foxnews_FTW  [Member]
5/26/2008 2:46:58 PM
the sig 1911's = all steel from what i've read
suprmatch  [Member]
5/26/2008 2:47:27 PM
Like someone pointed out to me in the past.......springfields are guaranteed for life. It breaks, return it for fixin . He also pointed out that most of the problems with mim parts happened when they were first introduced years ago.
bullitt5172  [Team Member]
5/26/2008 4:10:37 PM

Originally Posted By HAIL-CAESAR:
MIM does break at an alarming rate more that bar stock. I have seen to much of it to trust MIM. I also replace my tires before they get thin and blow out, it's my insurance. If your a range blaster, MIM and no maintenance will work because a broke part or stoppages just sent you home. If you carry for a living or for your right to life MIM and no preventative maintenance might send you home to Jesus. The 3 guns I regularly carry have schedules that parts get changed. In cleaning inspections if anything looks worn or suspicious it gets replaced pronto. Springs, slide stops, hammers, sears,links,pins,bushings,extractors,ejectors , everything has a service life. And I want to get to them before Murphy's law does. A working handgun/rifle that breaks is a embarrassment that I don't want in front of St. Peter.


Incorrect, I've seen just about as many bar stock parts fail as I have MIM parts. As stated above, if a MIM lasts for a couple hundred rounds it will be around as long as a tool steel part will. If there is a flaw, MIM parts will fail early in life.
HAIL-CAESAR  [Member]
5/26/2008 4:39:29 PM
Bullitt, we'll have to agree to disagree. But I will stay with bar stock and leave the broken MIM parts in the box. But MIM is great for my business. Not much for repeat customers as soon as stock parts are used in replacement.
Here's food for thought. Taurus did a survey couple of years ago that an average handgun had less than 200 rounds fired. So MIM parts where fine.
bullitt5172  [Team Member]
5/26/2008 4:45:55 PM

Originally Posted By HAIL-CAESAR:
Bullitt, we'll have to agree to disagree. But I will stay with bar stock and leave the broken MIM parts in the box. But MIM is great for my business. Not much for repeat customers as soon as stock parts are used in replacement.
Here's food for thought. Taurus did a survey couple of years ago that an average handgun had less than 200 rounds fired. So MIM parts where fine.


Ahh, now we see your motive. Your a "smith", of course you think MIM is bad. You want people to think it's bad so they will take their brand new 1911 and replace all the internals - if it's needed or not. I'm not a fan of MIM, I don't own a 1911 that isn't 100% barstock. That hasn't always been the case. Kimber gave MIM a bad name, SA is as good as MIM gets. I've never had a MIM part fail, I have had tool steel fail. I'm not about to say that tool steel is bad.

Let's try to keep the info in this thread as unbiased as possible
HAIL-CAESAR  [Member]
5/26/2008 5:58:42 PM
Well, let's try and keep this truthful. Yes I am a Smith. NO< I DON"T TELL CUSTOMERS TO REPLACE ALL MIM PARTS ON NEW GUNS. I don't sell guns per sie, just repair broken ones and built new ones for customers. MIM keeps food on the table because it breaks and factory customer service stinks. I never but MIM in guns I build because it reflects poorly on my business when it does break. When someone asked I tell them no MIM parts, but if they buy a MIMBER gun and it does break I do take the money to fix it. And I won't use MIM parts so it does cut down on return business, but helps my reputation in the community as a get it done right guy. You said your not a fan of MIM either. So what's bad for you is good enough for another guy? I think the best is only what is needed for all defensive handguns. If you want a toy buy a Lorcin, Davis, Hi Point. The gentleman that started this thread asked for opinion and got mine. I suggest he call the top ranked smiths in the country and ask them. I have talked to smiths all acrossed the country and the same thing is spoken. They hate MIM, but parts breakages do put food on the table. I repeat,if all you want and expect is a range shooter/toy, buy anything you want. If you depend or think you might depend on a firearm then MIM is out. I fixed a Taurus thumb safety last week that broke under 200 rounds. A 2 Kimber slide stops that had less than 1300 rounds.( I've fixed plenty of those) Yes barstock fails too, just it has less of a failure rate. I'll use UnobtainiumH2O if it gave me a reduced failure rate. I'm not taking about the guy that buys 2 1911's and has 5000 rounds in the MIM gun with no problems. And the barstock sear gave away in 100 rounds on the other one. I'm talking about big picture, 10,000 guns of each that see 5,000 rounds a year. But you always have the one MIMBER guy that has 100,000 rounds in his gun and not even a jam using his factery (clips) and no parts replaced. Yea right.
Again, MIM was introduced as a means of making a part cheaper as to maximize profit to the manufacturer. Not as a superior new way to make parts stronger and durable. Quality MIM is possible but very hard to do right. And the companies using MIM are using it because they care about profit margins and not quality/durability or they wouldn't be using MIM in the first place. I don't accept what a factory says is good enough for me and if asked will tell the same. But alas, it doesn't matter to most anyway as most folks are range shooters and accustomed to things that break in this new world and take it as a fact of ownership. Something breaks just throw it away and buy a new one,mass production, theory. I prefer (and thank GOD others) don't believe this notion. My hypocrisy has some bounds. And I do think I am unbiased. As I would mke no more money off a MIM full build as to a complete barstock build, the customer would have to pay more although. Unless you take into account I could count on the MIM breaking and coming back for repair on the customers dime, In that scenario you would think I would be a MIM supporter. But I fully guarantee my work so MIM, is bad for my pocketbook in the long run and bad for reputation.

I am sorry if you have to try to make sense of this, as I have had shoulder surgery last week. I can barely type and meds are being hard on me, but I have to cut the pain somehow.
bullitt5172  [Team Member]
5/26/2008 6:15:59 PM

Originally Posted By HAIL-CAESAR:
Well, let's try and keep this truthful. Yes I am a Smith. NO< I DON"T TELL CUSTOMERS TO REPLACE ALL MIM PARTS ON NEW GUNS. I don't sell guns per sie, just repair broken ones and built new ones for customers. MIM keeps food on the table because it breaks and factory customer service stinks. I never but MIM in guns I build because it reflects poorly on my business when it does break. When someone asked I tell them no MIM parts, but if they buy a MIMBER gun and it does break I do take the money to fix it. And I won't use MIM parts so it does cut down on return business, but helps my reputation in the community as a get it done right guy. You said your not a fan of MIM either. So what's bad for you is good enough for another guy? I think the best is only what is needed for all defensive handguns. If you want a toy buy a Lorcin, Davis, Hi Point. The gentleman that started this thread asked for opinion and got mine. I suggest he call the top ranked smiths in the country and ask them. I have talked to smiths all acrossed the country and the same thing is spoken. They hate MIM, but parts breakages do put food on the table. I repeat,if all you want and expect is a range shooter/toy, buy anything you want. If you depend or think you might depend on a firearm then MIM is out. I fixed a Taurus thumb safety last week that broke under 200 rounds. A 2 Kimber slide stops that had less than 1300 rounds.( I've fixed plenty of those) Yes barstock fails too, just it has less of a failure rate. I'll use UnobtainiumH2O if it gave me a reduced failure rate. I'm not taking about the guy that buys 2 1911's and has 5000 rounds in the MIM gun with no problems. And the barstock sear gave away in 100 rounds on the other one. I'm talking about big picture, 10,000 guns of each that see 5,000 rounds a year. But you always have the one MIMBER guy that has 100,000 rounds in his gun and not even a jam using his factery (clips) and no parts replaced. Yea right.
Again, MIM was introduced as a means of making a part cheaper as to maximize profit to the manufacturer. Not as a superior new way to make parts stronger and durable. Quality MIM is possible but very hard to do right. And the companies using MIM are using it because they care about profit margins and not quality/durability or they wouldn't be using MIM in the first place. I don't accept what a factory says is good enough for me and if asked will tell the same. But alas, it doesn't matter to most anyway as most folks are range shooters and accustomed to things that break in this new world and take it as a fact of ownership. Something breaks just throw it away and buy a new one,mass production, theory. I prefer (and thank GOD others) don't believe this notion. My hypocrisy has some bounds. And I do think I am unbiased. As I would mke no more money off a MIM full build as to a complete barstock build, the customer would have to pay more although. Unless you take into account I could count on the MIM breaking and coming back for repair on the customers dime, In that scenario you would think I would be a MIM supporter. But I fully guarantee my work so MIM, is bad for my pocketbook in the long run and bad for reputation.

I am sorry if you have to try to make sense of this, as I have had shoulder surgery last week. I can barely type and meds are being hard on me, but I have to cut the pain somehow.


Most of what you say is correct but he was asking about a production 1911. Your talking about custom 1911's that cost a lot more money. Yes, I like tool steel and I am willing to pay for it. Most casual shooters are not. I don't think anyone that knows 1911's would take a production 1911 and use it as a self defense weapon, they just are not reliable enough IMO. Given the price range of production 1911's, MIM is what you are going to get. If you don't want MIM, sack up and buy a semi-custom or custom 1911.

I never said that MIM parts cannot fail, they can and some will. It just doesn't make sense to buy a production 1911 and replace all the internals, you gain nothing. I hope there are no custom 'smiths using MIM, that wouldn't make sense. The customer is paying for quality parts and tool steel is definately higher quality. This doesn't change the fact that MIM will suffice for 95% of the shooters out there and manufacturers know this. MIM failure rate has dropped significantly over the years, I hardly ever read about a failure. MIM parts are widely used in the automotive field as well as others. Technology has came a long way.....

Sorry to hear about your shoulder.
DoubleARon  [Member]
5/26/2008 7:06:08 PM

Originally Posted By HAIL-CAESAR:
Yes I am a Smith.


Got a website?
HAIL-CAESAR  [Member]
5/26/2008 7:11:03 PM
Sig is making a non MIM 1911. (I know the grip safety is MIM) I also buy 1911's to collect. I have 2 SIG's that are wonderful guns. I bought the CCO or they call it the compact and the Nitron Railed gun. The price for the railed was 900 OTD and 850 for the Compact. So shop around and deals can be found. From what I have seen the company had teething problems around SN 6000, so buyer beware. But the others seem to be a good deal for the money and they work. Smith and Sig has shown that an external extractor works very well on the 1911 if you do your home work.
If Goofy's would buy a lightly used Mil-spec or other quality piece and have the smiths go through it to replace all the high wear junk they would be at the same price as a new gun. Forget the new and fancy 1911 with dinosaur bone Punisher grips, SISSY slide serrations that the LA Dog Catchers are issued. You don't need that! A used Springfield, Colt, or even Kimber 1911 with guts yanked, tuned, tweaked, with front night sight is more than anyone should need at 900 dollars or so. If you need more than that you are on SWAT or need to stay home under the bed. Spend your money where it is needed and not on frivolous junk. If you have problems with eyesight a set of Crimson Trace and you have a set up. All you need now are some quality mags and good training and your GOOD TO GO! But I know that is hard to tell to someone that has his sights set on the SUPER FBI GRAND REPTILIAN SWAT BLASTER that every one seems all stiffyed over these days. If you try and tell some people that all you'll hear out of their mouths is" You mean spend money on a good working gun, training, good mags, practice, and what do you mean no more Wolf ammo??!!! Holy Mother of MOHAMMAD!!! None of the other Special Ranger Seals at the range/store will think I'm KOOL." and my favorite " What do you mean my Chinese lettering Woolly Mammoth Punisher grips are a waste of money, how dare you!" And I forgot they need to make a trip to the model supply store so they can get paint to color in the lettering like a Kindygardener.

Rewritten to be clearer.
HAIL-CAESAR  [Member]
5/26/2008 7:28:18 PM
DoubleARon, nope but thanks for asking. I go word of mouth and through local shops. I have a full time job and the smithing is a labor of love that is quite time consuming. I also work on revolvers and build AR's ( don't get me started on that crowd.) Oh, what the heck. I built one for a guy 2 months ago that whenever I asked his about his preference for a part he stated " I don't know whatever will look cool to my buddies" over and over again. He wanted D.D. rails but put a SWAT FORCE light and laser on it. You know you ain't got much for 70 dollars in a light and laser. And refused to spend 5 dollars for a M-16 carrier, chrome lined barrel, and 5 dollars for extractor upgrade as he said " No one will know the difference. " And wanted me to color in the lettering for him!!!!!!!!! Put an Eotech on it but refused BUIS as he put it "but I won't ever have to use that." Oh, it was a beaut. If I didn't know his father well I would have told him I was very busy and couldn't do it.
WilsonCQB1911  [Team Member]
5/26/2008 8:00:22 PM

Originally Posted By HAIL-CAESAR:
Sigs is making a non MIM 1911. (I know the grip safety is MIM)I also buy 1911's to collect. I have 2 SIG's that are wonderful guns. I bought the CCO or they call it the compact. And the Nitron Railed gun. The price for the railed was 900 OTD and 850 for the Compact. So shop around and deals can be found. From what I have seen the company had teething problems around SN 6000, so buyer beware. But the others seem to be a good deal for the money and they work. Smith and Sig has shown that an external extractor works very well on the 1911 if you do your home work.
And if goofy's would buy a lightly used Mil-spec and have the smiths go through it and replace all the high wear junk they would be at the same price as a new gun with dinosaur bone Punisher grips, SISSY slide serrations that the LA Dog Catchers are issued. A used ( cause lets face it most put 200 rounds through a gun till they find out they can't afford to feed it) Springfield, Colt, or even Kimber 1911 with guts yanked, tuned, tweaked, with front night sight is more than anyone should need at 900 dollars or so. If you need more than that you are on SWAT or need to stay home under the bed. Spend your money where it is needed and not on frivolous junk. If you have problems with eyesight a set of Crimson Trace and you have a set up. All you need now are some quality mags and good training and your GOOD TO GO! But I know that is hard to tell to someone that has his sight s set on the SUPER FBI GRAND REPTILIAN SWAT BLASTER that every one seems all stiffyed over these days. " You mean spend money on, good working gun, training, good mags, practice, and what do you mean no more Wolf ammo??!!! Holy Mother of MOHAMMAD!!! None of the other Special Ranger Seals at the range/store will think I'm KOOL." and my favorite " What do you mean my Chinese lettering Woolly Mammoth Punisher grips are a waste of money, how dare you!" And I forgot a trip to the model supply store so I can get paint to color in the lettering like a Kindygardener.



Ok -- who's troll account is this?

bullitt5172  [Team Member]
5/26/2008 8:06:39 PM

Originally Posted By WilsonCQB1911:

Originally Posted By HAIL-CAESAR:
Sigs is making a non MIM 1911. (I know the grip safety is MIM)I also buy 1911's to collect. I have 2 SIG's that are wonderful guns. I bought the CCO or they call it the compact. And the Nitron Railed gun. The price for the railed was 900 OTD and 850 for the Compact. So shop around and deals can be found. From what I have seen the company had teething problems around SN 6000, so buyer beware. But the others seem to be a good deal for the money and they work. Smith and Sig has shown that an external extractor works very well on the 1911 if you do your home work.
And if goofy's would buy a lightly used Mil-spec and have the smiths go through it and replace all the high wear junk they would be at the same price as a new gun with dinosaur bone Punisher grips, SISSY slide serrations that the LA Dog Catchers are issued. A used ( cause lets face it most put 200 rounds through a gun till they find out they can't afford to feed it) Springfield, Colt, or even Kimber 1911 with guts yanked, tuned, tweaked, with front night sight is more than anyone should need at 900 dollars or so. If you need more than that you are on SWAT or need to stay home under the bed. Spend your money where it is needed and not on frivolous junk. If you have problems with eyesight a set of Crimson Trace and you have a set up. All you need now are some quality mags and good training and your GOOD TO GO! But I know that is hard to tell to someone that has his sight s set on the SUPER FBI GRAND REPTILIAN SWAT BLASTER that every one seems all stiffyed over these days. " You mean spend money on, good working gun, training, good mags, practice, and what do you mean no more Wolf ammo??!!! Holy Mother of MOHAMMAD!!! None of the other Special Ranger Seals at the range/store will think I'm KOOL." and my favorite " What do you mean my Chinese lettering Woolly Mammoth Punisher grips are a waste of money, how dare you!" And I forgot a trip to the model supply store so I can get paint to color in the lettering like a Kindygardener.



Ok -- who's troll account is this?



I'm starting to think the same thing. Nothing in that paragraph made sense??
HAIL-CAESAR  [Member]
5/26/2008 8:10:57 PM
Sir, what part do you or might you have taken offense?
HAIL-CAESAR  [Member]
5/26/2008 8:14:15 PM
Maybe I was rambling, sorry. Rewritten for clarity.
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