1911 Hammer Position for HD--Cocked, Staged, or Uncocked?

I found myself in a philosophical discussion over the suitable hammer position for a 1911 that is designated for home defense. My friend and I could not come to agreement. But it made me wonder what the rest of the world thinks. Please share your thoughts.

(A) Loaded 7+1, with the hammer cocked and safety engaged––Ready to Rock & Roll with the drop of the safety
(B) Loaded 7+1, with the hammer staged––Ready to Rock & Roll with the cocking of the hammer
(C) Loaded 7+0, with the hammer uncocked––Ready to Rock & Roll with the racking of the slide

(For the sake of this discussion, assume that the HD strategy is suitable for a 1911 and that the pistol is appropriately secured in a quick-access safe.)

A is the way the gun was designed.

Straight up, it is my personal opinion that if you do not feel comfortable carrying a 1911 cocked and locked, you are not confident enough in either your skill or it's design and should get a different firearm.

Seek training and knowledge (which you are, which is good) and make a decision.

Post 1 and 2 nailed it.

How you gonna do that? Thumb down the hammer on a chambered 1911? The EXACT thing you're NOT supposed to do?

BOOM!

By hammer staged he means half cocked.

The half-cock position shouldn't be used. Ever. It's meant only as an extra safety layer in case the primary sear engagement fails. A 1911 pistol should have an empty chamber, OR a loaded chamber with the hammer fully back. That's it.

Condition one, always.

Dedicated for HD use I say A or C.
Depends if you prefer to keep house guns with or without one in the chamber.

For carry, always A

Thanks for the confirmation.

This^^^^^^^^^
RLTW

If it'll be in a quick access safe why wouldn't you go with A?

Cocked and locked is the only way to roll.

And if you are worried about spring fatigue - don't.

You could leave one like that for years - decades probably - without it becoming an issue, and even if it ever did, it is very easy to replace a mainspring.

If you need it, chances are that seconds will count. How long does it take you to chamber a round? And what if that round jams going into the chamber?

There have been folks who drew a gun with an empty chamber and were killed before they could chamber a round.

If you're not comfortable leaving a loaded 1911 cocked and locked, either get training, or choose another platform.

+10000000

Option A, the only smart choice IMO

Cocked and locked or don't own a 1911.

A

As I understand it, the only way to get a round in the chamber is to rack the slide, which also fully cocks the gun. I believe his point is, the only way to get the hammer to half cock from there is to pull the trigger and hold the hammer so the hammer drops without discharging.

Hammer down on loaded chamber is safe. The firing pin is inertial and has no primer contact. The half cock notch is the No No carry mode as it is NOT a safe position. It simply catches mis-staged cocks or drops.

Cocked and locked is THE way to go if you are knowledgeable and confident of your 1911.......

I'm confused. Lets see I insert mag rack slide and engage the thumb safety. Drop mag and insert 1 more round. Reinsert mag. Making sure it's fully seated in pistol. What's all this crap about other conditions? Am I doing something wrong?

Yoteslayer said it pretty well.

i open safe, confirm it is loaded,confirm the thumb safety is engaged, place in holster, attach holster to belt!


i was taught that there are 2 instances when an empty chamber is acceptable, when you are cleaning firearms or if you run out of ammunition in a firefight.

This

Fixed it for you.
Here in Occupied Territory, posession of a loaded firearm outside of your home or a State-licensed shooting range will get you 7 years in the State Pen.

Just to pile on...

Condition One

For HOME defense, C. For CCW ,A. For HOME defense, my 12 gauge shotgun and AR-15 are my primary. I would NEVER lower the hammer on a chambered round, I consider that very risky.

... but getting there can be a noisy disaster.

• 
  Condition 0 – A round is in the chamber, hammer is cocked, and the safety is off.
  
  Condition 1 – Also known as "cocked and locked,” means a round is in the chamber, the hammer is cocked, and the manual thumb safety on the side of the frame is applied.
• 
  Condition 2– A round is in the chamber and the hammer is down.
  Condition 3- The chamber is empty and hammer is down with a charged magazine in the gun.
  Condition 4 – The chamber is empty, hammer is down and no magazine is in the gun.

Option A.

A, a, and Alpha, since typing "A" was too short a response for the system to accept.

Condition 1 or its a paper weight.

I just opened this up to see how it could possibly take two pages to answer this question.

Cocked and locked.

There is nothing "philosophical" about it; cocked and locked is how it is supposed to be done.

Pennsylvania is right "next door"; just sayin'.

F@CK PA. They follow in NJ's footsteps, just 20 years behind. Plus, if the sh!t ever hits the fan in NYC/NJ, what is PA going to do with 20MM refugees?
4 more years and I'm pack'n up the kin-folk and heading to either Oak Ridge, TN or Verde Valley, AZ.

cocked and locked.

A is the correct answer, but there is no indication that it was designed or intended as such.

Yes there is, field manual 25-35 specifically states a round should be chambered and the safety on if use of the pistol is probable. That is absolute indication that it was intended to be carried cocked and locked.

And in other places, too:

Both are from 1918:




Line 277 says the same thing, in essence.

As my friend put it, it was the last American service pistol made for gunfighters.

Mr. Browning's personally owned .45 automatic was a Colt M1910, without a thumb safety. His original blueprints elude to the use of the half-cock notch as a safety.

Now I'm not recommending these practices, but to to say Condition 1 is "as designed" or "as John Browning intended" is inaccurate.

John Browning designed the 1911 around what the Cavalry wanted. The intention for the end user of the 1910 does not equal the intentions of the end user of the M1911.

If JMB alluded (...who art in Heaven, hallowed be thy name...) to being comfortable with either carrying hammer down on a loaded chamber (condition 2), or condition 3, with his prototype, that was his call.

In practice, since WWI, the prime user has had its people carrying condition 1 when the situation called for it.

Getting a pistol into condition 2 can be a noisy disaster.

pg. 133 paragraph 277:
"After the pistol is loaded (and locked as safety precaution), a filled mgazine may be inserted; the pistol then carries eight cartridges and is ready for use.
It is dangerous, however, to carry the pistol thus loaded and, except in emergencies, the pistol should be carried with the chamber empty...."

In house mine sits on the desk with empty chamber hammer down. If I hear a strange bump outside or my dog sets up a human bark racket, by the time I get to the door it's charged.

In the truck, my GI model sits holstered between the seat and console with a round in the chamber hammer down. It has far less to zero chance of taking a strike on the hammer and sending a round through the floor into the pavement then possibly some crap or debri that ends up between car seats falling between the hammer and firing pin. Plus, my hand slid down between the seat my thumb indexes on the spur hammer and I can cock it like a single action revolver as fast or faster then shoving my hand deeper and finding the locked thumb safety.

For carry, when a threat is possible otherwise I wouldn't be carrying or as stated "except in emergencies", Condition 1.

So, in a nutshell, you don't trust your handgun enough to operate it. Especially the truck part. Does your 1911 have a firing pin block? If not, your thinking the hammer down reduces the chance of firing a round is 100% incorrect. The MAJORITY of 1911's are UNSAFE to carry with a chambered round, hammer down. That completely bypasses the half cock notch, which is the ONLY drop safety on non-FPB 1911's.

Use a different pistol.

A always
I don't understand the confusion. I have a DB9 1 in chamber pull the trigger round goes off. I carry my S+W 642 loaded with 5 rounds pull the trigger a round goes off. 1911 drop the safety pull the trigger round goes off. Less likely to have a ND with the 1911 since the safety has to be disengaged before the trigger can be pulled.

Warning sent please cease name calling By your smartass tone and ability to contort the truth I'm sure I was shooting, competing, handling, training, training others including some LE, helping test fire/torture test a high cap. polymer frame prototype that went on to be a STI, carrying a 1911 on very high risk security posts that were nothing more than a stakeout, and otherwise operating a 1911 before you ever fired one. I'm afraid it's a little late, new guy, to be telling me to get a Glock.

As far as running a shot timer to compare the speeds on Condition 1 vs. thumbing the hammer from a conealed location, I don't have to as the difference in handling speed is obvious and doesn't need a timer. If you read and proccessed what I wrote instead of trying to find angles that aren't there to make a case that isn't there you would go away understanding why a GI with spurred hammer down is the fastest condition in that situation.

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