AR15.Com Archives
 When did Springfield start outsourcing to Brazil
jmzd4  [Team Member]
1/9/2012 11:12:40 AM
So I'm just sitting here looking for a birthday present to myself and have decided on a 1911, and looking at Gunbroker to see what the going prices are for the Mil Spec model of the Springfield. It seems that all the ones that I have looked at are made in Brazil. Now when did that start?

Now mind you, I am not a 1911 specialist or I wouldn't be asking this question.

There is a gun show next weekend and I plan on going to finger fuck as many 1911s as I can to see what I really like. I have shot a Kimber Eclipse Custom II before and it was a sweet shooting gun, but it, along with the Colts are a little out of my price range. I will not settle for Rock Island as I have held them and think they are crap. I'm not interested in Taurus, and really not all that into Smith & Wesson either. If I want a S&W ill get a revolver.


Are there any other recomendations that the 1911 hive mind might have?

Ameshawki  [Member]
1/9/2012 11:19:55 AM
Forever. Springers have always come from Brazil.
StealthyBlagga  [Member]
1/9/2012 11:26:03 AM
The budget priced Springfields are made in Brazil. The higher-priced models have enough work done on them in the US that they can be marked "Made in USA". In general, if you must have a US-made gun, you are going to pay more for the same quality.
DanaHillen  [Team Member]
1/9/2012 11:26:13 AM
Originally Posted By Ameshawki:
Forever. Springers have always come from Brazil.


JoshAston  [Life Member]
1/9/2012 11:31:01 AM
They aren't made by Taurus, believe Imbel makes the Springfield guns.
Gregory_K  [Team Member]
1/9/2012 11:43:21 AM
I am going to say since they started selling 1911 kits, ie a long time.
jmzd4  [Team Member]
1/9/2012 11:46:55 AM
thanks for clearing that up. I had no idea they were made in Brazil till today.
Covertness  [Team Member]
1/9/2012 11:49:52 AM
Originally Posted By StealthyBlagga:
The budget priced Springfields are made in Brazil. The higher-priced models have enough work done on them in the US that they can be marked "Made in USA". In general, if you must have a US-made gun, you are going to pay more for the same quality.


This though I've had 2 "N" Springers and one "NM" and never had a problem with any of them.
captain127  [Member]
1/9/2012 2:16:24 PM
with the exception of early m1a's all SA products are imports- they never really made much in the U.S. the reciever for m1a's is made here- in the early days they used gi surplus parts but those now come from asia
418cwc  [Team Member]
1/9/2012 6:32:54 PM
I borrowed this from 1911forum.com...

1. All steel and stainless steel Springfield 1911s are forged in Brazil. Even the Custom Shop models.

2. All the GI models, most of the Mil-Spec models and most of the Loaded models are made completely in Brazil by Imbel. They are currently marked "Made in Brazil-Imbel" Older models have different markings, but somewhere in the gun it says "made in Brazil" (usually under the right grip) and Imbel (usually under the dust cover). The Mil-Spec and Loaded models made in Brazil also have an "N" prefix in their serial numbers. The GI models have a "WW" prefix in their serial numbers.

3. Those Mil-Spec and Loaded models that are not completely made in Brazil have serial numbers with an "NM" prefix in the serial numbers. They are forged and rough machined in Brazil and finished in the United States. The United States Government sets the percentage of work that must be done in the United States to qualify as "Made in USA" and not marked Made in Brazil.

4. I do not know if the aluminum frames start in Brazil or not, but they are marked with "LW" prefix serial numbers and do not have Imbel/Made in Brazil markings. Dito for the EMP.
JoshAston  [Life Member]
1/9/2012 6:43:13 PM
Originally Posted By 418cwc:
4. I do not know if the aluminum frames start in Brazil or not, but they are marked with "LW" prefix serial numbers and do not have Imbel/Made in Brazil markings. Dito for the EMP.


My aluminum framed Ultra Compact says Made in Brazil
F_Double_O  [Member]
1/9/2012 7:48:38 PM
all springfeilds are either made or start their life in brazil. tho i will say that for a brazilian made gun imbel is far superior in quality to taurus. this only bothers me because i personally want an american made 1911. springfeilds are good guns tho.
TheRegulator  [Team Member]
1/9/2012 7:58:42 PM
Brazil started doing 1911's in 4,000 B.C.
forgotmylogin  [Member]
1/10/2012 10:03:22 AM
Originally Posted By JoshAston:
Originally Posted By 418cwc:
4. I do not know if the aluminum frames start in Brazil or not, but they are marked with "LW" prefix serial numbers and do not have Imbel/Made in Brazil markings. Dito for the EMP.


My aluminum framed Ultra Compact says Made in Brazil


Pics? ONly ask because I've had more than a few LW's and have yet to see a Brazil marked one and was starting to wonder if any came from there or what the story was.
Blitzkreig  [Member]
1/10/2012 11:00:23 AM
my Mid-90's blued Springfield 1911A1(most closely resembles the mil-spec in their current line) has FI Brazil on the right side of the dust cover. My first new gun and first 1911.........still going strong.
Jester123  [Member]
1/10/2012 11:12:04 AM
Originally Posted By jmzd4:

Are there any other recomendations that the 1911 hive mind might have?



Have you checked out the ATI amd American Classic 1911s? They are made in the Philippines like RIA 1911s but they seem higher quality to me.
FightingHellfish  [Team Member]
1/10/2012 11:12:13 AM
Originally Posted By jmzd4:
So I'm just sitting here looking for a birthday present to myself and have decided on a 1911, and looking at Gunbroker to see what the going prices are for the Mil Spec model of the Springfield. It seems that all the ones that I have looked at are made in Brazil. Now when did that start?

Now mind you, I am not a 1911 specialist or I wouldn't be asking this question.

There is a gun show next weekend and I plan on going to finger fuck as many 1911s as I can to see what I really like. I have shot a Kimber Eclipse Custom II before and it was a sweet shooting gun, but it, along with the Colts are a little out of my price range. I will not settle for Rock Island as I have held them and think they are crap. I'm not interested in Taurus, and really not all that into Smith & Wesson either. If I want a S&W ill get a revolver.


Are there any other recomendations that the 1911 hive mind might have?



I'd like to get a Ruger, since they are made in Prescott and I grew up near there. They seem to be getting good press for the price point.
Staggunner  [Team Member]
1/10/2012 8:34:07 PM

Originally Posted By forgotmylogin:
Originally Posted By JoshAston:
Originally Posted By 418cwc:
4. I do not know if the aluminum frames start in Brazil or not, but they are marked with "LW" prefix serial numbers and do not have Imbel/Made in Brazil markings. Dito for the EMP.


My aluminum framed Ultra Compact says Made in Brazil


Pics? ONly ask because I've had more than a few LW's and have yet to see a Brazil marked one and was starting to wonder if any came from there or what the story was.

My EMP with the alloy frame has Geneseo, Ill on it. I haven't looked under the grips though.
AeroScout23  [Member]
1/10/2012 9:12:12 PM
Originally Posted By Staggunner:

Originally Posted By forgotmylogin:
Originally Posted By JoshAston:
Originally Posted By 418cwc:
4. I do not know if the aluminum frames start in Brazil or not, but they are marked with "LW" prefix serial numbers and do not have Imbel/Made in Brazil markings. Dito for the EMP.


My aluminum framed Ultra Compact says Made in Brazil


Pics? ONly ask because I've had more than a few LW's and have yet to see a Brazil marked one and was starting to wonder if any came from there or what the story was.

My EMP with the alloy frame has Geneseo, Ill on it. I haven't looked under the grips though.


I had a Springfield that said Imbel on the frame. It was a standard Govt model, parkerized. I sold it to fund a Loaded model.
America-first  [Team Member]
1/10/2012 9:58:25 PM
Springfield Armory bills itself as "The First Name In American Firearms" but they are, in fact, importers.

Good guns though.
Falar  [Member]
1/10/2012 10:48:59 PM
Originally Posted By Staggunner:

Originally Posted By forgotmylogin:
Originally Posted By JoshAston:
Originally Posted By 418cwc:
4. I do not know if the aluminum frames start in Brazil or not, but they are marked with "LW" prefix serial numbers and do not have Imbel/Made in Brazil markings. Dito for the EMP.


My aluminum framed Ultra Compact says Made in Brazil


Pics? ONly ask because I've had more than a few LW's and have yet to see a Brazil marked one and was starting to wonder if any came from there or what the story was.

My EMP with the alloy frame has Geneseo, Ill on it. I haven't looked under the grips though.


My loaded also says Geneseo, Ill on it but is not prefaced with "Made in".

Under the dustcover though "Imbel Brazil" is machine stenciled.

IMO, they deliberately try to be misleading.
vsvo  [Member]
1/11/2012 12:21:35 AM
Yes, Springfield Armory the company has nothing to do with the legendary government arsenal. A bunch of businessmen bought the right to use the name and started sourcing their guns from Brazil. Now, Imbel knows what the heck they are doing when it comes to forging steel, and I have experienced SA’s customer service for some warranty repairs and it was excellent. But SA enjoys some myths that seem to linger around their products.

The first myth is the company’s lineage to the actual Springfield Armory.

The second is related to the frenzy surrounding the NM-prefixed 1911’s. The only reason a NM-prefixed pistol does not have “Made in Brazil” stamped on it is because of some government regulation which states that if some arbitrarily-defined X amount of work on it is performed in the US, then it does not have to have a foreign stamp on it. If X is 50% is it still a US gun? What if a different group of lobbyists win and X is changed to 35%, is it still a US gun?

The third myth is that if a gun was worked on in the US then it must have gone through the Custom Shop. I still see posts from people who believe that the TRP is a Custom Shop pistol. The guys who own the $2,500 SA Professional love to hear that one.
Black_Rifle  [Member]
1/11/2012 12:29:20 AM
I got my first 1911 while living in NYC back in 1988, it was a Springfield, the seller was very clear I understood it was made in Brazil.
kevinb120  [Team Member]
1/11/2012 12:51:23 AM

Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
Originally Posted By jmzd4:
So I'm just sitting here looking for a birthday present to myself and have decided on a 1911, and looking at Gunbroker to see what the going prices are for the Mil Spec model of the Springfield. It seems that all the ones that I have looked at are made in Brazil. Now when did that start?

Now mind you, I am not a 1911 specialist or I wouldn't be asking this question.

There is a gun show next weekend and I plan on going to finger fuck as many 1911s as I can to see what I really like. I have shot a Kimber Eclipse Custom II before and it was a sweet shooting gun, but it, along with the Colts are a little out of my price range. I will not settle for Rock Island as I have held them and think they are crap. I'm not interested in Taurus, and really not all that into Smith & Wesson either. If I want a S&W ill get a revolver.


Are there any other recomendations that the 1911 hive mind might have?



I'd like to get a Ruger, since they are made in Prescott and I grew up near there. They seem to be getting good press for the price point.

Ruger all the way for an entry priced 1911, but they are unobtanium right now.
Bradd_D  [Member]
1/11/2012 3:14:08 AM
With all the foreign-made steel and parts of unknown origin floating around, it's hard to say with any certainty that any handgun is American-made. To me, if Springfield machines a pistol out of a raw forging from Brazil, then it's an American-made pistol.
Madcap72  [Team Member]
1/11/2012 3:47:33 AM

Originally Posted By kevinb120:

Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
Originally Posted By jmzd4:
So I'm just sitting here looking for a birthday present to myself and have decided on a 1911, and looking at Gunbroker to see what the going prices are for the Mil Spec model of the Springfield. It seems that all the ones that I have looked at are made in Brazil. Now when did that start?

Now mind you, I am not a 1911 specialist or I wouldn't be asking this question.

There is a gun show next weekend and I plan on going to finger fuck as many 1911s as I can to see what I really like. I have shot a Kimber Eclipse Custom II before and it was a sweet shooting gun, but it, along with the Colts are a little out of my price range. I will not settle for Rock Island as I have held them and think they are crap. I'm not interested in Taurus, and really not all that into Smith & Wesson either. If I want a S&W ill get a revolver.


Are there any other recomendations that the 1911 hive mind might have?



I'd like to get a Ruger, since they are made in Prescott and I grew up near there. They seem to be getting good press for the price point.

Ruger RIA all the way for an entry priced 1911, but they are unobtanium right now.
Fixed that for ya

a-bare  [Team Member]
1/11/2012 4:47:01 AM
Originally Posted By forgotmylogin:
Originally Posted By JoshAston:
Originally Posted By 418cwc:
4. I do not know if the aluminum frames start in Brazil or not, but they are marked with "LW" prefix serial numbers and do not have Imbel/Made in Brazil markings. Dito for the EMP.


My aluminum framed Ultra Compact says Made in Brazil


Pics? ONly ask because I've had more than a few LW's and have yet to see a Brazil marked one and was starting to wonder if any came from there or what the story was.


My LW GI Champ says made in Brazil-Imbel. Right side, above the trigger guard.

a-bare
Alex_B69  [Team Member]
1/11/2012 9:41:25 AM
The steel on the Brazilian made Springfield models (Imbel) is pretty good. The problem is that sometimes they are fitted and adjusted by blind monkeys. I have 8 Springfield 1911 pistols, and two are Brazilian made and they work perfectly, however I had a loaded model made in Brazil (sold it a couple of years ago) that jammed all the time.
LarrySD  [Team Member]
1/11/2012 8:07:08 PM
I second the Ruger if you can find one. My wife bought me one last year and it is a great shooter. It feels a lot like a Colt in my hands. I also have a GI Springer made in Brazil and it must have been made on a Friday. Unlike my TRP and Range Officer, the machining is terrible on the GI. I have an older Champion that was made in Brazil that is very well made. I know several people who have the Remington R1 and they are very pleased with them so you may want to check them out as well.
FredMan  [Team Member]
1/11/2012 9:29:22 PM
Originally Posted By JoshAston:
They aren't made by Taurus, believe Imbel makes the Springfield guns.


Imbel makes the forgings and assembles the lower-end models. The higher end models get partially finished forgings shipped to the US for final machining and assembly/fitting.

Imbel is a top-notch manufacturer who knows how to make quality forgings. Nothing wrong at all with them.
captainseaweed  [Team Member]
1/12/2012 1:59:27 PM
Originally Posted By Alex_B69:
The steel on the Brazilian made Springfield models (Imbel) is pretty good. The problem is that sometimes they are fitted and adjusted by blind monkeys. I have 8 Springfield 1911 pistols, and two are Brazilian made and they work perfectly, however I had a loaded model made in Brazil (sold it a couple of years ago) that jammed all the time.


So why not just send it in for repair?
Avengeance  [Member]
1/12/2012 4:42:17 PM
From what I understand the NM = frame and metal work from Brazil but assembled in US. N = frame and metal work from Brazil, internal parts from US, but assembled in Brazil.

I have a TRP... mine has the NM stamp. From what Ive heard the NM models have a much better fit n finish compared to the N models. Ive personally held a couple N models and while I didnt shoot them it did seem to be slightly different than the NM models.

cjk1  [Member]
1/12/2012 4:58:21 PM
Originally Posted By Blitzkreig:
my Mid-90's blued Springfield 1911A1(most closely resembles the mil-spec in their current line) has FI Brazil on the right side of the dust cover. My first new gun and first 1911.........still going strong.


I'm guessing the FI means "Imbel Forge" in Portuguese.
jmreagan  [Member]
1/12/2012 6:52:17 PM
Originally Posted By America-first:
Springfield Armory bills itself as "The First Name In American Firearms" but they are, in fact, importers.

Good guns though.


I know right? They also seem to tout the image that they are the original Springfield Armory, the one George Washington ordered to start producing our own military guns. But they certainly are NOT. However, they are great pistols and they stand behind their work much like Smith & Wesson does, which is the best in the business. Both of these companies are a class act when it comes to customer service. IMO, a "NM" prefix Springfield Loaded is the bang for your buck in the 1911 market. I have one that has exceeded my expectations. Most importantly, its reliable and accurate, while the fit and finish is superb with a tight lockup as well. I also had a "N" model Mil-Spec that was flawless in thousands of rounds. I sold it to my brother who is putting thousands of rounds through it now. He really wanted it and couldn't afford a new one, so I practically gave it away to him with the stipulation if he ever wants to get rid of it he has to sell it back to me. OP, I would not let the made in Brazil bother me at all. If it does, hold out for a "NM" model. Also, RIA I know make great guns on a budget.
Talyn  [Member]
1/12/2012 7:06:49 PM
Anybody that thinks the Brazil SAs are "low-end" are crazy. I have two, a LW aluminum and a Loaded Parkerized (none were cheap) and an NM Target and they're all great pistols.

BTW - Imbel FAL receiver are highly sought of. Imbel knows what they are doing.
jmreagan  [Member]
1/12/2012 7:08:55 PM
Originally Posted By FredMan:
Originally Posted By JoshAston:
They aren't made by Taurus, believe Imbel makes the Springfield guns.


Imbel makes the forgings and assembles the lower-end models. The higher end models get partially finished forgings shipped to the US for final machining and assembly/fitting.

Imbel is a top-notch manufacturer who knows how to make quality forgings. Nothing wrong at all with them.


Would a partially finished forging just be the frame and slide forged out of steel in the general shape of a gun? Or would partial be when they actually do some milling? I.E. cutting the trigger guard out and milling the frame rails? I could be wrong..... and probably am.... but I thought Springfield forged the slide and frame into what looks like general pieces of a slide and frame, and all the cutting of lets say the frame rails, magazine well, dust cover, etc, etc was done here in the U.S. on "NM" models. If, and that's a big if, I am correct, then a "NM" model gun would damn near be considered American made in my book. And yes, I don't care if its made here or Brazil anyway. With the general quality of gun your getting from Springfield.... along with the legendary customer service they provide in the slight chance should I need it, I have no problem either way. There are a few 100% made in Murica" 1911 manufacturers, that I don't find for suitable to use for wheel chock substitutes. I won't name any names of course.
blackhawktech  [Team Member]
1/13/2012 5:28:35 PM
Remington R1. I have the Remington R1 Enhanced model , and I love it. My previous 1911 was a Charles
Daly , it was junk!
Falar  [Member]
1/13/2012 5:35:16 PM
Originally Posted By Talyn:
Anybody that thinks the Brazil SAs are "low-end" are crazy. I have two, a LW aluminum and a Loaded Parkerized (none were cheap) and an NM Target and they're all great pistols.

BTW - Imbel FAL receiver are highly sought of. Imbel knows what they are doing.


My FAL days are LONG gone, but I thought I remembered them being "soft" and Steyr being much more desireable? I know I would much rather have something made in Austria then a third world shithole so I built mine from mostly Steyr parts purchased from DSA.