Cost effective way to get a 2" at 50 yards capable handgun?

Has to be 9mm. I'm thinking Glock 34 with gunsmith fitted barrel and maybe that special locking block. That would be under a grand.

Thoughts?

What kind of shooting?

Buy a used Les Baer.

Used STI Targetmaster?

Target shooting.

Learn to shoot better.



Really.




Most modern handguns are absurdly mechanically accurate. Unless your skills are to a point you know your current handguns mechanical accuracy is holding you back, buying a specialized target pistol is just masking shooter induced problems.

My shooting is fine.

The STI Targetmaster looks like a good option.

Well, there's a difference between fine, and the capability to shoot to the guns potential. Can you shoot close to 2" groups now, or with a borrowed accessorized gun?


I'm a big fan of the witness elite matches, though I don't know if they'll hold 2".

Yes, I can shoot to any pistol's potential. Double action, single action, safe action, whatever. I am a master. Now I need a tool equal to my capabilities.

What I do not want to do is buy a bunch of service pistols and find the accurate one among them. I want to buy one pistol.

lol anyways

The HK P7 would probably get pretty damn close. I never rested mine but it tended to shoot into the same hole more often than not. Not exactly where I aimed, but that's another story.

What are you planning on doing for ammo? 9mm, in my experience, can be difficult to tune for maximum accuracy.

This...

And those who claim mastery....rarely do.....very small percentage of shooters who do.

I will load for it.

In fact, so many people suck so hard at pistol shooting, that there is a huge gap in knowledge when it comes to finding an accurate pistol.

cost effective and 2 inch 50 yard accuracy are simply not possible in the same sentence with 9mm. If you did not limit caliber most 6" smith k-38 revolvers can do that for under 500 bucks. in 45's, les baer with 1.5 inch package will run you around 2k and most any other truly capable 1911 platform will be in the same price range. getting any glock to shoot 2 inches at 50 yards is a long shot no pun intended- they just are not designed for it (yes I know the 1911 wasn't designed for it either, but a heavy steel on steel frame/slide and 100 years of developing fit techniques has changed that). A sig p-210 would do it but again you are talking 2k+

No - most handguns cannot hold 2" at 50 yards with any degree of repeatability. The standard for NRA outdoor conventional pistol is 10 shots into 3" (3 inch ten ring) and it usually takes money and gunsmith work to get there.

It depends on wat type of shooting you want to do - if it's casual target shooting, IPDA, IPSC then 2" at 50 is not needed, if it is bullseye shooting or something else where you are really striving for a high standard, then he would need an accurate handgun.

So, not to criticize because this is all in good fun, but a good friend of mine has exactly the same opinion as you "why would you need to buy an expensive really accurate gun if you can't shoot to that potential?"

The answer is that with the inaccurate gun, it's tougher to get to that level of skill and accuracy. Why? Let's say you are shooting at 50 yards with an inaccurate pistol and you get an X. Why did you get the X? Was it because of luck or you did the right things? Or let's say you shoot a 7. Why? Maybe you did everything exactly right but the gun threw the shot out into the 7 ring. You can't really know . . . but if you know the gun is accurate then that gives you the confidence to say "OK - I got that 10 or X because I actually had good trigger control there". I need to do that same exact thing again. Make sense?

None of this really matters for what pistols are usually used for, shoting for fun at closer rangge or defending your life. Then 4-6" at 50 yards is fine.

On the OP's original question:

What type of shooting do you want to do? The only competition where you really need that level of accuracy is bullseye or something like it. As far as a really accurate 9mm like others have said probably a used, worked 9mm 1911 like a Clark PPC gun. A very accurate Glock 34 would be neat but by the time you are done woud be over 1K I think. You could check out some of the M9s accurized for bullseye but that's over 1K. Also what about that SMith and Wesson single stack 9mm that's baed on the old .38 Special Auto? Maybe a used one?

If you are truely able to shoot that well, then calling your shots will tell you exactly why or why not the last shot went where it did. I shoot bullseye, I can tell you in general terms where every shot on the target is before I look thru my binoculars. The binoculars just confirm the call.


If you can't duplicate a machine rested group offhand you aren't exceeding the capabilities of the gun.

I find it hard to believe that a master shooter needs advice on what hangun to buy. But then again I'm no master so what do I know.

A perfect crown, 147 grain JHP Winchester, and sharp, well defined sights.

Postage stamp accurate formula, if you do your part. Platform is mostly irrelevant if you stick to Glock, Sig, Beretta or S&W.

Beretta 'works' for the AMU...

I have been personally disappointed by alleged wahzoo 'custom' manufactures like L-B. YMMV.

I don't know anybody that can shoot 2" groups at 25 yds, much less 50.

You can shoot that well. What about people trying to develop that skill at bullseye? Or trying to develop the ability to call the shot? What if you call the shot, and it actually did not land where you called it? Was it because you're not calling the shot or because you called it correctly but the gun threw it wide?

Do you see my point? If you are trying to develop the ability to shoot very accurately you need to start with an accurate machine - otherwise you don't know if the error is you or the machine. See the article below, it does a better job explaining than me:

http://www.bullseyepistol.com/cstomgun.htm

I personally have met people that can shoot 4-6" groups off hand at 50 yards, yes. I am certainly not one of them.

Beretta works for the AMU after the gunsmith installs steel slide rails, tightens the gun, and they put a lot of money into the gun. The AMU is not competing at Camp Perry with stock M9s.

You had to shoot something to discover you are a master so i would just stick with that gun.

Buy a .45 caliber HK (USP TAC, MK23, HK45).

Do nothing to do it. Buy good ammo.

Voila.

And an after-market barrel, adjustible sites, lots of JB Weld, a muzzle bushing-accurizer and fram-o-lator. Don't recall Camp Perry as part of the equation. AMU also uses .22s too. OP wants a under a 1k set up. Beretta is a scary accurate base platform.

And to supplant what Cyber said earlier.

Get a used S&W 52 automatic, and shoot powder-puff wadcutter. Probably about 1k if you search.

Does it have to be an auto have you considered a long barrel revolver?

454 Casull, 44 Mag, etc etc

If 9mm weren't a factor, you could get a decent PPC .38 revolver for under 1K. Most of those will shoot 2" at 50.

I can see your point. However, Bradd sees mine:




You don't get to be a master class shooter w/o developing the skills to call a shot. I understand what your article is saying, however it is approaching it from a scoring point of view 2" gun + 8 inch wobble = 10" pattern on target. 4" gun + 8" wobble = 12" pattern on target. 12" pattern on target = score greater than 10" pattern.

I'm saying if I've got a 4" gun and an 8" wobble that create a 12" pattern on the target I can call my shot within + or - 2" in that 12" circle. Until I can contain my wobble to close to zero and shoot close to the mechanical capabilities of the gun I can learn and improve from shooting a 4" grouping gun.

Are accurate guns more interesting? Absolutely!! Is the OP going to get a 2" 9mm for under $1K? Most likely not.

The OP would have to be a reloader as I don't think you can buy the .38 special midrange wadcutter these require over the counter anymore.




These these two options and others similar to them are really the best solutions for the OP if he wants serious accuracy at under $1k. The trigger on a Glock will be a handicap even if the pistol is capable of 2" mechanical accuracy. There's a reason single action handguns are typically used in the target sports.

Remington, Winchester, and several other companies make 148 wadcutter. I have a couple of cases in the ammo closet and hope to get some more later in the year. Do the 52s require something different?

One way to get a 2" 9mm is to find a SIG 210-6. Accurate with target type adjustable sights, but probably way more than $1k.

After a little Googling this appears to be the best answer for a semi-auto.

I never said they could, only that most modern semi automatics are very accurate, typically more accurate than the shooter, and accurate enough to train on fundamentals until it's clear a more accurized handgun is needed.

S&W 22A.

I know you say it has to be a 9mm, but if you can't do it with a little .22, don't see how you could do it with a 9mm, and .22 match ammo is CHEAP compared to regular 9mm.

I'll go over a grand if I have to. The reason I mentioned the G34 is that I get the first responder Glock discount, it has a nice sight radius, and it comes with a pretty good trigger. There is also a lot of aftermarket support and smiths who do them all the time.

I shoot PPC. I have a master classification and I know quite a few high masters. No one I know, or know of, shoots a Glock for the 50 yard matches. 1911s, and S&W PPC 9mms dominate the sport, which is accuracy based. The B-27 10 ring is about 4"x 6" with a 2" inch X ring.

On the other hand, I know many shooters who can knock down plate racks at 50 yards with a standard Glock.

How much accuracy do you actually need? Is it a carry gun or a match gun? Does it need to meet the standards for a rulebook or just personal use?Just like racing or any competitive adventure, the last few increments are the most expensive.

They require a 148 gr wadcutter seated flush w/ the front of the case w/ a muzzle velocity of 700-750 fps. I see Rem. and Winchester have wadcutters at this velocity but I don't know if they are seated flush.

They are.

Thanks for the post. The PPC-9 looks like a sweet machine. This will not be a carry gun - just a range gun, personal use. I want 9mm because I already have a loading setup for it and I don't want more calibers.

The PPC 9s are Performance Center guns. They use 5906 series magazines, and have a similar feel. They are single action with only a thumb safety. The triggers are about 2.5#. They come in both 5" and 6" versions. They are equipped with Aristocrat 3 position target sights. You can easily find a used one for under a thousand bucks.

Normally one would do this by buying a 1911 and hand fitting a new bushing to it. The OP said 9mm though, which makes everything harder.

One of the competition geared CZ-75 models might do it. Anyone know the machine rest accuracy of the CZ-75 SA?

my M&P disagrees.

My M&P thinks its a shotgun.

Your M&P should tell us what group sizes at what yardage it gets since you didn't.

Mechanical accuracy has little to do with being able to shoot two inch groups. Having a gun that can potentially shoot that good is only part of the equation. None of us shoot from a Ransom rest in real life. The gun also has to be user friendly in a way that allows good shooting. For example, my 642 could probably shoot 2 inch groups from a rest. If you can consistently shoot 2 inch groups with a J-frame in real life, I'll give you a brand new one dollar bill.

These guns can do it when the shooter is up to it. I don't have a Glock, XD, 1911, S&W, or any other service gun that can do it. YMMV and all that.
STI Targetmaster
S&W PPC 9mm
Bob Jones built .38 PPC (S&W)

Minute of side of a barn at 25 yards

Copyright © 1996 - 2013 :: AR15.Com LLC :: All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.