Archived Posts » 59,726,163
Mystery HP--Ran across a stash of T's
11/27/2010 6:55:45 PM
While perusing a local gun shop, found they had a bunch of old used t-series FN-marked HPs. $399 your pick. My first thought was the latest bunch of Israeli contract imports, and bought one of the better ones. All were mechanically in fine shape, just had some wear. While checking out, I realized the pistol didn't have an Import mark, none of them did. They weren't marked Browning anywhere, just he usual FN. Asked the salesman where they came from, said it was someplace that started with a P, or an I, he couldn't really remember. 
No box, 1 rusty mag.
No marking anywhere other than the 3 serial numbers, usual proof marks, the FN on the left side of the slide.
Brought it home, got what was left of the paint (Dulite?) cleaned up off of it with some steel wool. Stripped it completely down, forgot to put the magazine disconnect back in.
Inside the gun is impeccable. It came with old worn black plastic grips, put these Pachmayr's on there for now. Haven't had a chance to shoot it yet, but except for the finish wear, gun seems in great shape. No rust or pits anywhere.
Another mystery, the serial number doesn't fit the Browning's serial number lookup. T3244xx
I just wonder where it came from? Store is the old Bud's Gun Shop and they're always getting a bunch of police trade-ins.
Now I'm also in a dilemma, I'm fighting an urge to have a set of Novak's put on one of my HP's. All of them are pre MkII's with the tiny sights and except for this one, impeccable blue. And then, if I got it cut for sights, might as well get it refinished...
No box, 1 rusty mag.
No marking anywhere other than the 3 serial numbers, usual proof marks, the FN on the left side of the slide.
Brought it home, got what was left of the paint (Dulite?) cleaned up off of it with some steel wool. Stripped it completely down, forgot to put the magazine disconnect back in.
Inside the gun is impeccable. It came with old worn black plastic grips, put these Pachmayr's on there for now. Haven't had a chance to shoot it yet, but except for the finish wear, gun seems in great shape. No rust or pits anywhere.
Another mystery, the serial number doesn't fit the Browning's serial number lookup. T3244xx
I just wonder where it came from? Store is the old Bud's Gun Shop and they're always getting a bunch of police trade-ins.
Now I'm also in a dilemma, I'm fighting an urge to have a set of Novak's put on one of my HP's. All of them are pre MkII's with the tiny sights and except for this one, impeccable blue. And then, if I got it cut for sights, might as well get it refinished...
11/27/2010 9:33:16 PM
Don't suppose they have a website so I can get one..
Nice pistol. If there are no issues, seems like $400 is a steal.
Nice pistol. If there are no issues, seems like $400 is a steal.
11/27/2010 9:53:31 PM
Originally Posted By Spook410:
Don't suppose they have a website so I can get one..
Nice pistol. If there are no issues, seems like $400 is a steal.
Don't suppose they have a website so I can get one..
Nice pistol. If there are no issues, seems like $400 is a steal.
Smokin' Guns
Paris, Kentucky.
11/27/2010 11:26:39 PM
Doesn't look like they have a website but thanks. Will keep an eye out online though. Seems to be a lot of High Powers lately. Would be good to pick up one as nice as that one.
11/28/2010 7:06:25 PM
Sorry to tell you this but that is not a Browning HP. It is a FN P35. They are the same pistol but differant markings. Browning Arms got North America and FN got the rest of the world. That is why the s# did not fit the Browning list. Parts work on both no matter how thay are marked. As they should as they were made on the same tooling. Nice pistol for $400. If you want one I would bet if you called the store with a credit card and had a FFL sent to them they would ship one to your local dealer.
Steve
Steve
11/28/2010 7:22:55 PM
Classic beauty......I love the old style ring hammer!
11/28/2010 11:18:48 PM
Originally Posted By gunseller1:
Sorry to tell you this but that is not a Browning HP. It is a FN P35. They are the same pistol but differant markings. Browning Arms got North America and FN got the rest of the world. That is why the s# did not fit the Browning list. Parts work on both no matter how thay are marked. As they should as they were made on the same tooling. Nice pistol for $400. If you want one I would bet if you called the store with a credit card and had a FFL sent to them they would ship one to your local dealer.
Steve
Sorry to tell you this but that is not a Browning HP. It is a FN P35. They are the same pistol but differant markings. Browning Arms got North America and FN got the rest of the world. That is why the s# did not fit the Browning list. Parts work on both no matter how thay are marked. As they should as they were made on the same tooling. Nice pistol for $400. If you want one I would bet if you called the store with a credit card and had a FFL sent to them they would ship one to your local dealer.
Steve
Uh.............not quite.
While P35 has been used, the handgun is most commonly referred to as a Browning Hi Power. FN refers to it as the Hi Power, not as the P35.
FN is the original manufacturer of the Hi Power and Browning Arms is only the US importer (Browning Arms doesn't make guns they are strictly an importer/marketing company). A Browning Arms marked Hi Power was made by FN in Belgium.
The reason his serial number "did not fit the Browning list" is because that list is notoriously lacking in accuracy. And guess who gave Browning that serial number list?.............FN.
You are confusing licensing agreements that John Browning had with Colt and FN. In 1896, Colt bought the exclusive rights to produce and market Browning handgun designs in the USA, Great Britain and Ireland. Fabrique Nationale got the exclusive rights to Belgium, France, Austria Hungary and Spain (the rest of the world was a free for all) In the 1920's Colt territories were expanded to everything north of the Panama Canal Zone, FN got all of continental Europe except for GB & Ireland. The last of these licensing agreements expired in the '50's. This is when Browning Arms was formed and began importing FN firearms like the Auto 5 and Hi Power.
11/30/2010 8:38:48 PM
I am glad we agree that the pistol in question was made on the same tooling, as I stated. FN does call the pistol the P35. They also call it the Hi Power, as that is the name most people know in this country, but it is a P35. You are mixing Colt and FN License agreements. You forgot to state Winchester's agreement with John Browning. The reason that the S# does not fit the list of Browning numbers is that Browning marked pistols have their own S# numbers and the FN marked pistols have their own S# numbers. I have several FN marked pistols and not one of them fit Browning S# range because they all fit the FN S# range. I am glad you stated that Browning Arms was formed in the 1950s. Now tell me why I have A5 shotguns from the 1940s marked Browning Arms. OOPs I guess when you are wrong you are wrong.
Now back to the pistol in question. I also like the ring hammer and the classic style of the pistol. As I write this I have a FN P35 on the desk with me.
Steve
Now back to the pistol in question. I also like the ring hammer and the classic style of the pistol. As I write this I have a FN P35 on the desk with me.
Steve
12/1/2010 12:07:08 AM
Originally Posted By gunseller1:
I am glad we agree that the pistol in question was made on the same tooling, as I stated. FN does call the pistol the P35. They also call it the Hi Power, as that is the name most people know in this country, but it is a P35.
Don't get sand in your mangina, I didn't say it wasn't a P35, GP35, L9a1 or any other name. If you knew your HP history you would know the pistol was called the Grand Puissance (High Power) when adopted by the Belgian Army who referred to it as the P35 (or Model 1935). The Brits called it the L9a1 and so on. But don't argue with me, argue with R. Blake Stephens who wrote the most comprehensive reference on the Hi Power.
You are mixing Colt and FN License agreements.
Uh, no I'm not. (see pages 3-5 of "The Browning High Power Automatic Pistol" by R. Blake Stephens).
You forgot to state Winchester's agreement with John Browning.
I didn't forget. They aren't mentioned because Winchester didn't make handguns designed by JMB.
Note that I also didn't mention licensees Savage or Remington....who did manufacture semiautomatic handguns but none were JMB designs.
The reason that the S# does not fit the list of Browning numbers is that Browning marked pistols have their own S# numbers and the FN marked pistols have their own S# numbers.
Really?That would be news to every Hi Power forum on the internet. Suppose you could share this secret FN serial number resource with the rest of the world? While FN would gladly stamp your contract run with whatever numbers you wanted, there is no separate FN list or Browning Arms list. If you can prove otherwise do it.
I have several FN marked pistols and not one of them fit Browning S# range because they all fit the FN S# range.
Really? Because I have FN Hi Powers that do fit the Browning serial range.
I am glad you stated that Browning Arms was formed in the 1950s. Now tell me why I have A5 shotguns from the 1940s marked Browning Arms. OOPs I guess when you are wrong you are wrong.
That's what I get for typing too fast. Browning Arms was formed in 1927 after JMB's death. Browning Arms did not begin importing the Hi Power until the 1950's.
Now back to the pistol in question. I also like the ring hammer and the classic style of the pistol. As I write this I have a FN P35 on the desk with me.
Steve
I am glad we agree that the pistol in question was made on the same tooling, as I stated. FN does call the pistol the P35. They also call it the Hi Power, as that is the name most people know in this country, but it is a P35.
Don't get sand in your mangina, I didn't say it wasn't a P35, GP35, L9a1 or any other name. If you knew your HP history you would know the pistol was called the Grand Puissance (High Power) when adopted by the Belgian Army who referred to it as the P35 (or Model 1935). The Brits called it the L9a1 and so on. But don't argue with me, argue with R. Blake Stephens who wrote the most comprehensive reference on the Hi Power.
You are mixing Colt and FN License agreements.
Uh, no I'm not. (see pages 3-5 of "The Browning High Power Automatic Pistol" by R. Blake Stephens).
You forgot to state Winchester's agreement with John Browning.
I didn't forget. They aren't mentioned because Winchester didn't make handguns designed by JMB.
Note that I also didn't mention licensees Savage or Remington....who did manufacture semiautomatic handguns but none were JMB designs.
The reason that the S# does not fit the list of Browning numbers is that Browning marked pistols have their own S# numbers and the FN marked pistols have their own S# numbers.
Really?
That would be news to every Hi Power forum on the internet. Suppose you could share this secret FN serial number resource with the rest of the world? While FN would gladly stamp your contract run with whatever numbers you wanted, there is no separate FN list or Browning Arms list. If you can prove otherwise do it.
I have several FN marked pistols and not one of them fit Browning S# range because they all fit the FN S# range.
Really? Because I have FN Hi Powers that do fit the Browning serial range.
I am glad you stated that Browning Arms was formed in the 1950s. Now tell me why I have A5 shotguns from the 1940s marked Browning Arms. OOPs I guess when you are wrong you are wrong.
That's what I get for typing too fast. Browning Arms was formed in 1927 after JMB's death. Browning Arms did not begin importing the Hi Power until the 1950's.
Now back to the pistol in question. I also like the ring hammer and the classic style of the pistol. As I write this I have a FN P35 on the desk with me.
Steve
12/1/2010 10:44:27 AM
We were talking about the Hi Power/ P35. By your statements I would be lead to believe you know of a Colt marked pistol of this type. You brought Colt into this. I thought as long as you were bringing unrelated, to the Hi Power/P35, companies into topic we should have more. As long as we are on the history we should state that the pistol design was first designed for the French Police but was rejected for a French design. The pistol, as it is now build, has some design work added to it by Mr D.D. Saive of FN. Saive worked with JMB for many years and up until JMB's death, which happened at the FN plant. Many of JMB's design features were used on the FN FAL rifle. The S# info that I have came directly from Browning Arms. We can go back and forth for a long time but if you look at what we are saying we are agreeing on most things. I just pointed out that the pistol in question is a FN not a Browning and you went off on a trying to say that I was wrong and proved you were . I am done on this topic.
I still say the pistol in question is a classic that is made mid 60s on. It has an external extractor not an internal like the 1911. I think the change was made in the mid to late 60s. If I am wrong feel free to point it out.
Steve
I still say the pistol in question is a classic that is made mid 60s on. It has an external extractor not an internal like the 1911. I think the change was made in the mid to late 60s. If I am wrong feel free to point it out.
Steve
12/1/2010 2:40:06 PM
Originally Posted By gunseller1:
By your statements I would be lead to believe you know of a Colt marked pistol of this type.
I never came anywhere close to saying anything about a Colt Hi Power.
You brought Colt into this.
Because you incorrectly stated that "...Browning Arms got North America and FN got the rest of the world." That is clearly incorrect.
John Brownings licensing agreements for handgun designs were with Colt and FN. As Browning Arms was not started until after JMB's death.
Browning Arms is only the importer of the FN Hi Power.
As JMB's licensing agreements with Colt and FN expired in the 1950's, FN was free to sell the Hi Power anywhere it wanted. FN chose Browning Arms to market the HP in the USA and Canada. It wasn't a "Browning got North America....FN the ROTW"- Browning Arms got North America because FN CHOSE THEM as their US importer. FN has agreements with importers in several countries not just the USA. FYI, FN owns Browning Arms. Up until a few years ago FN imported Hi Powers to the US through FNMI/FNUSA. These Hi Powers were identical to Browning marked HP's except for the rollmarks. Vector Arms, Howa, Cassi and others have imported FN Hi Powers to the US as well.
You believe FN and Browning Arms are two distinct handguns. Fine. But explain the Hi Powers that have BOTH Browning Arms and Fabrique Nationale rollmarks on the same gun.........under your theory whose serial numbers would they have?
.....I thought as long as you were bringing unrelated, to the Hi Power/P35, companies into topic we should have more.
Which is why your entire response gets a
.....The pistol, as it is now build, has some design work added to it by Mr D.D. Saive of FN....
Some??????????My lord, Saive took the monstrosity of JMB's design and made it into what it is. Saying Saive did "some" design work on the Hi Power is like.......
...The S# info that I have came directly from Browning Arms....
Still waiting on your separate list of FN serial number production dates.
By your statements I would be lead to believe you know of a Colt marked pistol of this type.
I never came anywhere close to saying anything about a Colt Hi Power.
You brought Colt into this.
Because you incorrectly stated that "...Browning Arms got North America and FN got the rest of the world." That is clearly incorrect.
John Brownings licensing agreements for handgun designs were with Colt and FN. As Browning Arms was not started until after JMB's death.
Browning Arms is only the importer of the FN Hi Power.
As JMB's licensing agreements with Colt and FN expired in the 1950's, FN was free to sell the Hi Power anywhere it wanted. FN chose Browning Arms to market the HP in the USA and Canada. It wasn't a "Browning got North America....FN the ROTW"- Browning Arms got North America because FN CHOSE THEM as their US importer. FN has agreements with importers in several countries not just the USA. FYI, FN owns Browning Arms. Up until a few years ago FN imported Hi Powers to the US through FNMI/FNUSA. These Hi Powers were identical to Browning marked HP's except for the rollmarks. Vector Arms, Howa, Cassi and others have imported FN Hi Powers to the US as well.
You believe FN and Browning Arms are two distinct handguns. Fine. But explain the Hi Powers that have BOTH Browning Arms and Fabrique Nationale rollmarks on the same gun.........under your theory whose serial numbers would they have?
.....I thought as long as you were bringing unrelated, to the Hi Power/P35, companies into topic we should have more.
Which is why your entire response gets a
.....The pistol, as it is now build, has some design work added to it by Mr D.D. Saive of FN....
Some??????????My lord, Saive took the monstrosity of JMB's design and made it into what it is. Saying Saive did "some" design work on the Hi Power is like.......
...The S# info that I have came directly from Browning Arms....
Still waiting on your separate list of FN serial number production dates.
12/4/2010 2:37:56 PM
.jpg)
Cleaned up pretty good. Stripped paint off, took out mag disconnect, blued with oxpho blue creme, put in mk iii safety (just left side), navidrex grips, wolff springs, cleaned real good and shot it today. Shot great, no problems, decent trigger now. I was going to send it off to Novaks for new sights, but I've just about talked myself out of it. At 33, my eyes are still in pretty good shape, and I have several other pistols with good sights on them. Rattles when shaken, but insides and barrel show hardly any wear. May in the future get Novaks put on and melonited or other finish, but right now I'm just going to shoot it as is.
Still wonder why a late 60's FN doesn't have an import mark anywhere.
