P3AT issue

Well, picked up a new P3AT and took it out today. No FTEs but a weird hammer issue.

My Dad was slowly creeping the trigger back, and it seemed to reset before doing a full hammer strike on the pin. Think of it like a decocker on a KelTec. I was able to recreate the problem as well. When slowly pulling it back, the hammer would come forward but not fire the round. No sign of a pin strike on the primer either.

I normally pull the trigger back to the "almost firing" position, then pull the trigger fully and it fires every time, but this kinda bugged me and my Dad was saying "I don't like that Kel Tec."

What is up with that? Send back to KelTec?

Doesn't sound like anything I've experienced with mine, but the good news is that in my experience, Keltec customer service is fast and efficient.

Same here.....

My dad carries one like its change or something. No regard for keeping it clean. Throws it in the sidebox of his Harley, tours the country... never maintaning his P3AT at all..... Then comes to me one day and says it doesnt work...... Imagine that. I've taken more lint out of his P3AT than I have the clothes dryer ! The ride in the side box did a job on it too.... Seems when you squeezed the trigger and the hammer dropped gun fails to go BOOM..... So I take the extracter screw out which lets firing pin drop out.... No drop... Get needle nose plyers and pull, it comes out coated with a brown oozey, rust like substance... NICE.. remove firing pin from firing pin spring. Clean everything up really good with lighter fluid and soaked in CLP. Dipped pipe cleaner in lighter fluid and cleaned out firing pin hole and extracter area.. Put it all back together, loaded it, went to range...You guessed it P3AT went BOOM.

Seeing how your dads gun is new I woud call Kel-Tec. They will go out of their way to make you happy.

Yeah I sent it in. We'll find out in 6-8 weeks.

I was not at all impressed with the P3AT. Mine locked up tight after the first shot. (Brand new) Sent to Keltec. They sent it back. Would not run an entire mag without a feed failure of some variety with any ammo. Sent to Keltec. They sent it back. Now it had about a 50/50 chance of getting through a mag of FMJs. Never found a HP it would eat a whole mag of. Was a single shot when fed hydrashoks. Gave it about 400 rds to see if it would ever break in. Never did. Not what I would call a self defense gun. Sold the POS. My P32 runs like a top though and my sub 2000 is OK after its 2 trips back to the factory. In the future, I'll spend a few extra bucks and a higher quality gun. End of rant.

Being a problem solver, when Dad handed his P3AT to me and said it don't work the very first thing I did was pull a P32 out of my pocket and said here. He's still got the P32 which has never failed to go BOOM ! I still have his P3AT and not giving it back until I know it's 100 %. But, here is the problem with that. I called Kel-Tec and ordered a new mag. Got it in and told Dad I had it and said listen, if your not going to rest your mags at least once a week if not every other day then there is no use in you having a semi auto of any kind. His immediate response was, " well that ain"t gonna happen ".

If the user is'nt going to take some responsibility for maintenance and upkeep then how can you blame the factory ??

Currently we are shopping a good deal on an airweight revolver for Dad.

I wouldn't use some lazy ass magazine that wasn't willing to work 24/7.

O' Really... Since you don't seem to mind addressing the problem with " Lazy Assed Magazines ". Maybe you wouldn't mind sharing with the rest of us what magazine solution you suggest

Ok, Mr. Sarcasm. Either pony up your solution or we will have to keep cycling these lame ass magazines.. what's it gonna be

Sorry, thought this thread was long dead.

Mags aren't human and don't need coffee breaks. The material is stressed when it's worked; when it's being loaded or unloaded, but not by simply remaining static, whether a mag be loaded or unloaded.

Hence my "24/7" comment - if it's loaded, leave it loaded until you want to shoot, inspect ammo or inspect the gun, but there is no need to make sure it's getting enough rest.

I've heard this debate before somewhere in the archives of quantum magazine physics... I don't buy into it's philosophy. Why ? Kel-Tec magazines are noticeably weaker when left loaded over extended periods. So... and I know this is wrong. I have to remove springs and stretch them and put'em back in to get back buoyancy... maybe you can recommend a better magazine.

I'm guessing you canceled your subscription to Quantum Magazine Physics Monthly before they got to the part about not stretching a compression spring to lengthen it because there's a high probability it will make the spring weaker?

If you're actually seeing Kel-Tec mag springs get shorter, then the spring may be overstressed in full compression and taking a permanent set. But, how do we know the spring designer hasn't already accounted for that in the design? Someone experienced in the art and science of spring making might do exactly that when faced with the problem of needing X amount of force to be exerted on the follower and constrained by the package dimensions of the P3AT mag.

Regardless of that speculation, the spring material, wire diameter and number of coils is not changing, and so the actual stiffness of the spring as it is installed inside the mag is largely unaffected by a change in the uncompressed length of the spring.

As a practical matter, I'd first ask, Do Kel-Tec mags begin to show feeding problems of the last round over time in spite of being well maintained? That might make me suspect the spring design was inadequate. I don't know the answer to that question. I can only account for 3 P3AT mags.

However, if you're stretching P3AT mag springs to bring them back to the fresh-out-of-the-box length, I'd have to disregard any last round feed problems you reported because you would quite possibly be causing the weakness in the spring by that act.

Nope, if you would read again. I said that I knew it was wrong to stretch springs because it weakens them at bend points.....I caught that part in Quantum Magazine Physics.... but stretching has worked verses buying new magazines.... Here's a tip Don't load mags full and they won't have to be rested, or stretched........ Here is what I have found.... There is only 1 manufacturer of Kel-Tec magazines, Meggar and no one sells'em but Kel-Tec.. No one.. Wolf doesn't make mag springs for the P3AT... So, I guess we are just stuck with these lame ass magazines..... Now...enough of the penis measuring. I like sarcasm and humor as much as anyone. Sarcasm is the funniest when it can be backed up with facts.

Why do you need to rest the mags? I've carried several different pistols over the years including a couple of KelTecs and never worried about resting mags. I leave them loaded all the time and they fire fine. If you are loading and unloading your mags you are causing more harm harm than just leaving them loaded.

Now if I could just find some more 380 ammo somewhere.

Why do you need to rest the mags? I've carried several different pistols over the years including a couple of KelTecs and never worried about resting mags. I leave them loaded all the time and they fire fine. If you are loading and unloading your mags you are causing more harm harm than just leaving them loaded.

Now if I could just find some more 380 ammo somewhere.[/quote]

Here is paste to an article written by Massod Ayoob, regardless of what you think regarding his personality. I would dare say that he has forgotten more about guns and magazines than a lot of us will ever know...........



http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3197/is_7_50/ai_n14836958/

Source: Google\Resting Magazines.

Well, that's a dang fine authority you rounded up there. MA has definitely forgotten more about guns and magazines than I will ever know.

However, I expect he would have a difficult time refuting this article, originally from American Handgunner, where the topic is discussed at length rather than mentioned in passing as a way to sell more magazines.

Excerpt:



And a warning: 2 paragraphs after the quote begins a section titled, "Shameful Spring Benders"

To have an opinion to one side or another one must first agree with the source..... I'll take my source and many years of personal experience over yours any day. There are grown up people that participate on real problems to arrive at real solutions. This thread is " P3AT Issues ". There are at least two people including myself working on problems that deal with a P3AT. I have replaced as I have stated the old magazine with a brand new one from Kel-Tec. ( Since you can't seem to suggest another manufacturer ) Am still experiencing a " double feed " issue that I believe is tied to the recoil spring and I dare say that you are not a constructive part of solution finding. Rather you seem to have strayed into the grey area of " mental magazine masturbation ".

Hey now, I just followed you there.

And I assume you are still talking about the magazine spring even though you said "recoil spring?" The one bit of info I can recall is from when I first got my P3AT, somebody on some forum said a Kel-Tec rep told him to try a Wolff spring made for one of the other Kel-Tec calibers. If you haven't already come across that, it's probably googleable.

Normally I wouldn't offer vague memories, but now you've goaded me into trying to be helpful.

ItS all right to have a little fun on the way to an end all solution. Yes, I meant recoil spring. I had all ready moved past the magazine by the time you jumped on this thread. So, if by reading between the lines here. Was the rep suggesting a P32 recoil spring in a P3AT ?

A double feed would usually be an extractor issue. The recoil spring wouldn't have much to do with a double feed.

No, that was all about magazine springs. I'm sure this was one of a couple of references I saw - http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213811 but I'm also sure I never saw it on KTOG.

Extracter has already been dealt with and you can have a double feed if the recoil spring is not allowing the slide to fully cycle.

That wouldn't be a double feed but a Failure To Extract.

Thanks for input. All of this back and forth has given me another idea regarding recoil spring. When first given this problem. KT was double feeding 4 out of 7. Last range trip it was 1 out of 100. When its 100/100 I'll give it back to my Dad..... Will post solutions when solved. Safe Shooting fellas.

Range Report.... 100/100. After 3000 mile Harley Trip, half of it P3AT in side box rattling around. Bringing it home and cleaning it up. Tuned and tensioned extracter. Replaced extracter screw. Had 3 plans of attack for final cure and since it was fixed on first idea we won't talk about the other two.... Spring temperment changes with heat. (Recoil Spring) Ran first hundred through KT fast as I could. Slide was hot to touch.... ran 99/100. Went home and coated inside slide heavily with Tetra-Grease. Back to range ran another 100 through fast as possible...100/100.

Lesson learned for P3AT.
1. Keep pocket lint out.
2. Use CLP or FP10 to keep firing pin wet.
3. Rest your magazines and don't fill them... Dad always kept mag full. Bought him spare and will rotate. Load 6, chamber 1. Leaving 5 in mag.
4. Don't let KT rattle around in sidebox of Harley. Does a job on extracter and vibration loosens screw. Chambered round vibrating inside of extracter not good.

Happy Fathers Day.

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