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Kahr K9 all steel... info request
8/8/2010 1:41:04 AM
Hey folks, I'm considering getting a P9 ss with a steel frame but I know next to nothing about how it differs from the normal p9 and PM9 pistols.
I'd like to know if there are any differences in the trigger quality, the dependability, or anything else I need to know.
I'll be using it mostly for pleasure shooting but it'll see duty as my winter carry weapon so it needs to be dependable.
Last, this gun seems to be a lot more expensove than the PM9... why is that? Is it just materials cost or is it a better gun?
as usual, pics would be great
this is what it looks like... not the polymer version
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
I'd like to know if there are any differences in the trigger quality, the dependability, or anything else I need to know.
I'll be using it mostly for pleasure shooting but it'll see duty as my winter carry weapon so it needs to be dependable.
Last, this gun seems to be a lot more expensove than the PM9... why is that? Is it just materials cost or is it a better gun?
as usual, pics would be great
this is what it looks like... not the polymer version
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
8/8/2010 4:22:19 PM
The K9 was Kahr's very first gun and some of us think it's still the best.
Since all the other models are simply smaller or polymer framed versions, the triggers will all feel the same unless you get a version that still has the original longer trigger, now sold as the "NYPD trigger".
The original trigger was designed to feel like a tuned S&W revolver trigger. The newer "Elite" trigger has a slightly shorter pull.
Again, some of us prefer the original NYPD type trigger.
Quality is the same on all guns, with the provision that what problems you hear about Kahr tend to be polymer framed versions.
You seldom hear any trouble about a K9.
The K9 costs more because of the all metal construction and it's place as the premium model.
Dependability is like any other gun you can name. You'll hear people bitterly complaining about having problems, but again, you usually don't hear any about the K9.
One thing to keep in mind, Kahr specifically recommends a 200 round break in period before trusting the gun.
In my case, I have an early stainless K9 that I can't even induce to jam. It shoots anything and everything and did right out of the box. It did have one problem. There was an extractor issue that was causing the gun to try to eject the rounds straight out to the side, and the cases were hitting the inside of the frame and slide under the ejection port.
This was happening with such force, the case rims were being badly torn out.
Even so, it STILL was 100% reliable, even with some really horrible old 1950's Egyptian 9mm submachine gun ammo.
I sent it in and they correct the ejection issue, and the gun is still 100% after years and an unknown number of rounds.
In my early manual Kahr recommended changing the recoil spring every 2000 rounds or so, and I do that when I think it's getting close.
When replacing the recoil spring , buy a FACTORY weight spring. These tiny guns are spring sensitive and are not as forgiving with using other weight springs. Changing to lighter or heavier springs can cause problems.
Don't screw with the trigger or firing pin springs. Lighter springs are not needed, may cause problems, and detract from the gun's basic idea: a tiny full power gun that's as safe to carry as a DA revolver. If you want a lighter, shorter trigger, buy some other brand of gun.
As for "shootability", since I shot a lot of DA revolvers over the years, I'm familiar with DA triggers, so using the trigger on the Kahr felt totally normal.
Some people who haven't shot DA revolvers much, or who are used to modern short trigger guns like the Glock have trouble transitioning to the Kahr long trigger action. Practice will correct that.
Accuracy is always good, depending on the ammo, but again, people not used to the trigger may have trouble with accuracy and have unrealistic expectations that they can shoot as accurately as they can with a larger single action or short action automatic.
The Kahr is not a range toy or a target gun. It's a pure "people shooter".
In the Kahr's case, remember THE ONLY CONSIDERATION with ammo and accuracy is that the gun is reliable. Accuracy really doesn't matter in a true personal defense gun. Break the gun in then pick a premium defense ammo that's reliable. I shoot at least 100 rounds of a premium defense ammo to find one that's reliable in a specific gun and that's the ammo I stick with for that gun.
When you clean the gun, clean the magazines.
The Kahr does have one "feature" of it's magazines. The rounds tend to work their way out the the magazine when carried. This depends on how the mags are carried. If carried in a pocket or some magazine pouches, the rounds may come out of the magazine and be found in the pocket or bottom of the pouch. Experiment to find a way to carry so this doesn't happen.
If the gun gives any reliability problems with defense ammo past the 200 to 300 break in rounds, try different ammo or return it to Kahr.
The Kahr guns like to be run a little wetter with lube than other guns. I use a good grease on mine because it stays put and won't evaporate or run off like thinner oils will.
Here's my early stainless K9. Right out of the box it needed NOTHING. No trigger work, no reliability work, no removal of sharp edges, etc. Since I was a gunsmith I could have done any of this, but it simply didn't need any.
What I did do, was stipple the front strap and under side of the tang to give me a better grip, and did some slight edge removal on the front of the slide. It needed nothing else, and on the Kahr's, having a trigger job done is usually a waste of money since it's so good right out of the box.
Since all the other models are simply smaller or polymer framed versions, the triggers will all feel the same unless you get a version that still has the original longer trigger, now sold as the "NYPD trigger".
The original trigger was designed to feel like a tuned S&W revolver trigger. The newer "Elite" trigger has a slightly shorter pull.
Again, some of us prefer the original NYPD type trigger.
Quality is the same on all guns, with the provision that what problems you hear about Kahr tend to be polymer framed versions.
You seldom hear any trouble about a K9.
The K9 costs more because of the all metal construction and it's place as the premium model.
Dependability is like any other gun you can name. You'll hear people bitterly complaining about having problems, but again, you usually don't hear any about the K9.
One thing to keep in mind, Kahr specifically recommends a 200 round break in period before trusting the gun.
In my case, I have an early stainless K9 that I can't even induce to jam. It shoots anything and everything and did right out of the box. It did have one problem. There was an extractor issue that was causing the gun to try to eject the rounds straight out to the side, and the cases were hitting the inside of the frame and slide under the ejection port.
This was happening with such force, the case rims were being badly torn out.
Even so, it STILL was 100% reliable, even with some really horrible old 1950's Egyptian 9mm submachine gun ammo.
I sent it in and they correct the ejection issue, and the gun is still 100% after years and an unknown number of rounds.
In my early manual Kahr recommended changing the recoil spring every 2000 rounds or so, and I do that when I think it's getting close.
When replacing the recoil spring , buy a FACTORY weight spring. These tiny guns are spring sensitive and are not as forgiving with using other weight springs. Changing to lighter or heavier springs can cause problems.
Don't screw with the trigger or firing pin springs. Lighter springs are not needed, may cause problems, and detract from the gun's basic idea: a tiny full power gun that's as safe to carry as a DA revolver. If you want a lighter, shorter trigger, buy some other brand of gun.
As for "shootability", since I shot a lot of DA revolvers over the years, I'm familiar with DA triggers, so using the trigger on the Kahr felt totally normal.
Some people who haven't shot DA revolvers much, or who are used to modern short trigger guns like the Glock have trouble transitioning to the Kahr long trigger action. Practice will correct that.
Accuracy is always good, depending on the ammo, but again, people not used to the trigger may have trouble with accuracy and have unrealistic expectations that they can shoot as accurately as they can with a larger single action or short action automatic.
The Kahr is not a range toy or a target gun. It's a pure "people shooter".
In the Kahr's case, remember THE ONLY CONSIDERATION with ammo and accuracy is that the gun is reliable. Accuracy really doesn't matter in a true personal defense gun. Break the gun in then pick a premium defense ammo that's reliable. I shoot at least 100 rounds of a premium defense ammo to find one that's reliable in a specific gun and that's the ammo I stick with for that gun.
When you clean the gun, clean the magazines.
The Kahr does have one "feature" of it's magazines. The rounds tend to work their way out the the magazine when carried. This depends on how the mags are carried. If carried in a pocket or some magazine pouches, the rounds may come out of the magazine and be found in the pocket or bottom of the pouch. Experiment to find a way to carry so this doesn't happen.
If the gun gives any reliability problems with defense ammo past the 200 to 300 break in rounds, try different ammo or return it to Kahr.
The Kahr guns like to be run a little wetter with lube than other guns. I use a good grease on mine because it stays put and won't evaporate or run off like thinner oils will.
Here's my early stainless K9. Right out of the box it needed NOTHING. No trigger work, no reliability work, no removal of sharp edges, etc. Since I was a gunsmith I could have done any of this, but it simply didn't need any.
What I did do, was stipple the front strap and under side of the tang to give me a better grip, and did some slight edge removal on the front of the slide. It needed nothing else, and on the Kahr's, having a trigger job done is usually a waste of money since it's so good right out of the box.
8/11/2010 11:17:30 AM
I have a K9 Elite and a E9 (economy model K9) and both have been 100% straight out of the box. Exceptionally accurate also. The weight carries very well because they are thin and tuck in nice and close to the body.
