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 9mm nato vs. 9mm luger
4x4sc  [Member]
11/14/2005 1:23:45 PM EST
What is the difference between nato and luger in 9mm ammo. Are they one in the same with different names? Is one more powerful than the other? Can you fire a 9mm Nato round through a 9mm Luger barrel? For example, Can I shoot 9mm Nato in my Springfield XD9 service model?

Thanks
4X4SC
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powder_burn01  [Member]
11/14/2005 1:49:59 PM EST
You can shoot it all day long. It's the same ammo. It's loaded a little hotter than standard 9mm, but not as hot as +p or +p+.

Fire Away
4x4sc  [Member]
11/14/2005 1:57:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By powder_burn01:
You can shoot it all day long. It's the same ammo. It's loaded a little hotter than standard 9mm, but not as hot as +p or +p+.

Fire Away



Cool. I will start looking for surplus Nato rounds then.

Thanks
4X4SC
Rose  [Member]
11/14/2005 2:02:03 PM EST
There are no direct comparisons between NATO spec 9mm and +P or +P+ 9mm. Saying NATO isn't has "hot" as +P is not really accurate. Some NATO 9mm might be, some might not be.

Through casual research, the common concensus that I've found is that 9mm loaded to NATO specifications is most often very similar in velocity to what you would find with SAAMI specification 9mm +P.

Combat_Jack  [Team Member]
11/14/2005 2:17:19 PM EST
NATO spec is roughly (roughly) +P. Luger is an American term brought back by GI's who apparently did not realize that the round predates the Luger and is properly termed 9x19 or 9mm Parabellum ("for war"). US ammo, that which is not NATO or +P is downloaded from the Euro Parabellum spec because some Glisenti (IIRC) pistols were brought into the US and they fire the same size round as 9x19, but would probably blow if a full power round was fired in it. European handguns are still made to take roughly +P pressures.
aaronrb204  [Member]
11/14/2005 6:39:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
NATO spec is roughly (roughly) +P. Luger is an American term brought back by GI's who apparently did not realize that the round predates the Luger and is properly termed 9x19 or 9mm Parabellum ("for war"). US ammo, that which is not NATO or +P is downloaded from the Euro Parabellum spec because some Glisenti (IIRC) pistols were brought into the US and they fire the same size round as 9x19, but would probably blow if a full power round was fired in it. European handguns are still made to take roughly +P pressures.



the 9x19 aka 9mm parabellum aka 9mm luger aka 9mm para aka 9mm nato was in fact created for the luger. many militaries didn't like the 7.65mm round because it was too small. luger realized he could put a larger barrel on his pistol without redesigning any major parts. so technically the luger pistol predates the 9mm luger round but both were designed by georg luger.

yes the 9mm luger and 9mm glisenti rounds are the exact same size. but the glisenti round is loaded to a much lower pressure and is much less powerful than the luger round. that is because the design is much weaker. but no that is not why the saami spec for 9x19 is lower than the nato spec. if you fire a saami spec 9x19 from your glisenti it will probably kb just as badly as a +p load.
NevisRuprecht  [Team Member]
11/19/2005 4:31:39 PM EST
Just an FYI:

Dear ------:

Our RA9T is not a +P but a regular 9mmm load with a pressure of 35,000 PSI.
A +P 9mm round runs at 38,500 PSI. The Nato round tested under the SAAMI
system comes in at 40,000 PSI. SAAMI has never recognized +P+ ammunition.
However, if it did, the 9mm NATO load would come in at +P+ pressure levels.
We do in fact make +P and +P+ 9mm Ranger Duty loads. However, RA9T is not
one of them.

Sincerely,

Senior Technical Specialist
Winchester Law Enforcement Ammunition
tvarden  [Member]
11/19/2005 11:23:20 PM EST
Thank You for the info...
C-4  [Team Member]
11/24/2005 6:01:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By NevisRuprecht:
Just an FYI:

Dear ------:

Our RA9T is not a +P but a regular 9mmm load with a pressure of 35,000 PSI.
A +P 9mm round runs at 38,500 PSI. The Nato round tested under the SAAMI
system comes in at 40,000 PSI. SAAMI has never recognized +P+ ammunition.
However, if it did, the 9mm NATO load would come in at +P+ pressure levels.
We do in fact make +P and +P+ 9mm Ranger Duty loads. However, RA9T is not
one of them.

Sincerely,

Senior Technical Specialist
Winchester Law Enforcement Ammunition



Interesting. I know that Hirtenberger (Austrian) is supposed to be NATO and loaded to +P+. However, it is not recommended in pistols. Although people still shoot it in Glocks apparently. I shot some for the first time this past weekend in a semi-Uzi SBR. I shot WWB next to it and the Hirt definitely barks a lot louder. I got the ammo specifically for my Uzi.

Ammoman sells/sold some 9mm NATO (dated 2003). I bought it a while back when it was less expensive than now. It doesn't seem to be loaded as hot at the Hirt. Great stuff.
NevisRuprecht  [Team Member]
11/24/2005 6:32:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By C-4:

Originally Posted By NevisRuprecht:
Just an FYI:

Dear ------:

Our RA9T is not a +P but a regular 9mmm load with a pressure of 35,000 PSI.
A +P 9mm round runs at 38,500 PSI. The Nato round tested under the SAAMI
system comes in at 40,000 PSI. SAAMI has never recognized +P+ ammunition.
However, if it did, the 9mm NATO load would come in at +P+ pressure levels.
We do in fact make +P and +P+ 9mm Ranger Duty loads. However, RA9T is not
one of them.

Sincerely,

Senior Technical Specialist
Winchester Law Enforcement Ammunition



Interesting. I know that Hirtenberger (Austrian) is supposed to be NATO and loaded to +P+. However, it is not recommended in pistols. Although people still shoot it in Glocks apparently. I shot some for the first time this past weekend in a semi-Uzi SBR. I shot WWB next to it and the Hirt definitely barks a lot louder. I got the ammo specifically for my Uzi.

Ammoman sells/sold some 9mm NATO (dated 2003). I bought it a while back when it was less expensive than now. It doesn't seem to be loaded as hot at the Hirt. Great stuff.




I bought 4K back when it was $139 ish. Great range ammo and not bad for carry if need be.

aaronrb204  [Member]
11/24/2005 8:28:24 PM EST
i was just poking around and on the saami site there is an article about what calibers do not match up but will fit in the chamber. for example, 9x18 makarov might be chambered by a 9mm parabellum pistol but it would be bad to fire it. it does say though that guns chambered for 9mm parabellum should not be loaded with 9mm nato ammo. this is probably because of the higher pressures of the military rounds.
Cold  [Team Member]
11/24/2005 9:22:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By powder_burn01:
You can shoot it all day long. It's the same ammo. It's loaded a little hotter than standard 9mm, but not as hot as +p or +p+.

Fire Away




is that desiganation still used commerically?
FAIL-SAFE  [Team Member]
11/25/2005 6:22:10 PM EST
Winchester and Federal M882 load it as a 124gr+P round.
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