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 What are the 92 series clones on the market?
DanTSX  [Team Member]
7/4/2011 3:45:16 PM EST
Do not own a 92, but have always kicked around the idea of using my handgun slush-fund to pick one up if I find one that caught my fancy.

I've considered everything from the higher-end Steel-framed SAO 92 to homely police trade-in 92FS, but just never had been moved enough to fill out the 4473. Which brings me to my question.....What are the 92 clones on the market, what is your experience with them, and are there any advantages to some? The 92 looks like it has been cloned a few times like the FN High Power and the CZ-75 have been copied for better or worse by several nations.

I'd probably buy only a beretta, but I'm interested in hearing of the copies of this pattern. To my knowledge, we have seen the following:

ATI-AT92 Turkish import (currently imported)
Taurus 92 from Brazil (currently imported)
Vektor SP1 & SP2 from South Africa (not currently imported)

Any that I am missing? Any pros or cons? It seems like I can get a lightly used Beretta for less than a new Taurus. Price is not really an issue, but I still have not found the gun that would make it all click.
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TrackSol  [Team Member]
7/5/2011 3:11:40 AM EST
A lot of people like the Taurus PT92 or PT100 because it's a copy of the early Bertta 92 that had the frame mounted safety. Additionally, the Taurus has a picatiny rail. I've handled a few and the ones I've handled were heavier, stiffer and less smoth in the action.

There have only been a few reports from anyone who has bought one of those ATI clones. Some say they function just fine and the finish is good. Some say they function just fine and the finish is poor. CDNN has them for $299 and that's probably the most I would pay for one, however I would much rather put that money towards a Taurus or Beretta.

What kind of features do you want?

Frame safety, slide safety, decock only no safety? Rail or no rail? Standard grip or 1911 style grip? Alloy frame or polymer frame (90-two)?
DanTSX  [Team Member]
7/5/2011 12:24:49 PM EST
Honestly, just looking for a range toy / BBQ gun depending on what strikes me at the moment.
TrackSol  [Team Member]
7/5/2011 6:03:43 PM EST
Then go ahead and get the ATI clone. The responses have been primarily good.
DanTSX  [Team Member]
7/6/2011 3:31:16 AM EST
Originally Posted By TrackSol:
Then go ahead and get the ATI clone. The responses have been primarily good.


Thanks! Keeping my eyes open this weekend when I hit the local GS's!
ThomasTedder  [Member]
7/6/2011 5:42:30 AM EST
I bought one of these from CDNN for $299 and it is by far the best bargain I have ever got on a pistol. It's the most accurate pistol I own and you can't make it jam. The finish is also very nice. The original mag is great; however, the 5 free eagle mags are crap, but they work somewhat (I had to reshape three of them with a small hammer and none of them will hold the slide open). I got some surplus m9 mags for $10 that work great. I'm thinking of getting another one
Milo5  [Member]
7/6/2011 4:11:58 PM EST
Century Arms imported a couple batches of Egyptian made Maadi 92S pistols in the last few years.
They were snapped up pretty quickly and the quality is about par with the earlier Maadi Helwan/Brigadeer copies.
DanTSX  [Team Member]
7/6/2011 4:28:18 PM EST
Originally Posted By Milo5:
Century Arms imported a couple batches of Egyptian made Maadi 92S pistols in the last few years.
They were snapped up pretty quickly and the quality is about par with the earlier Maadi Helwan/Brigadeer copies.


That sounds pretty interesting too.

I'm not necessarily looking for the most reliable, combat-proven handgun out there. I've got my Glocks and HKs that I'm very comfortable with. A nice full-size 9mm range toy with some interesting or distinguishing features is what I'm after.

The Helwan is sounding pretty cool. I have seen them around, but never had any interest before.


What about this one? The Vektor SP1 looks like something a Klingon would have designed. But hey, it has a frame-safety!


Actually, I really am digging this one.

SchlaffTablett  [Team Member]
7/8/2011 10:47:18 AM EST
The Vektor SP 1 was their 92 "kinda copy". Vektor also made the Z-88 which was an unlicensed 92F copy made during the apartheid period weapons sanctions. Other clones include the Maadi 920 which is a hybrid of the 92 S and F. I was just talking with Brad Taylor yesterday about them and we believe that there are WELL under 100 of these are in the US (I have one NIB and have seen one other and he's only ever seen 8). The Maadi/Helwan Brigadier is a licensed copy of the Beretta 1951/951/51 Brigadier as was the Iraqi Tariq (there was also a 92 series Tariq but you don't see them much even here). The French license built a 92G for several years and it may still be in production but I can't say for sure. The ATI copies are there and decent for the money from what I've seen and of course all of the Taurussses... Tauri? The very early Taurus PT92 was a 100% carbon copy of the Beretta 92 on the old Beretta tooling. AS time went on Taurus strayed from the original design adding a decocker and other features but they are still fairly true to the design.
Milo5  [Member]
7/8/2011 12:45:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By SchlaffTablett:
The Vektor SP 1 was their 92 "kinda copy". Vektor also made the Z-88 which was an unlicensed 92F copy made during the apartheid period weapons sanctions. Other clones include the Maadi 920 which is a hybrid of the 92 S and F. I was just talking with Brad Taylor yesterday about them and we believe that there are WELL under 100 of these are in the US (I have one NIB and have seen one other and he's only ever seen 8). The Maadi/Helwan Brigadier is a licensed copy of the Beretta 1951/951/51 Brigadier as was the Iraqi Tariq (there was also a 92 series Tariq but you don't see them much even here). The French license built a 92G for several years and it may still be in production but I can't say for sure. The ATI copies are there and decent for the money from what I've seen and of course all of the Taurussses... Tauri? The very early Taurus PT92 was a 100% carbon copy of the Beretta 92 on the old Beretta tooling. AS time went on Taurus strayed from the original design adding a decocker and other features but they are still fairly true to the design.


Z-88 and the 92G are still issue weapons.
Both are offered for export, you can get a 92G in the US, can't get a Z-88 because of import restrictions here.

Got any pictures of that Maadi 920???
Nakanokalronin  [Member]
7/8/2011 10:10:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By DanTSX:
Originally Posted By Milo5:
Century Arms imported a couple batches of Egyptian made Maadi 92S pistols in the last few years.
They were snapped up pretty quickly and the quality is about par with the earlier Maadi Helwan/Brigadeer copies.


That sounds pretty interesting too.

I'm not necessarily looking for the most reliable, combat-proven handgun out there. I've got my Glocks and HKs that I'm very comfortable with. A nice full-size 9mm range toy with some interesting or distinguishing features is what I'm after.

The Helwan is sounding pretty cool. I have seen them around, but never had any interest before.
http://picturearchive.auctionarms.com/2794083018/9711741/maadi%20helwan%20001.jpg_thumbnail1.jpg

What about this one? The Vektor SP1 looks like something a Klingon would have designed. But hey, it has a frame-safety!
http://up.picr.de/6122739.jpg
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n5/bac1023/000_2387-1.jpg
Actually, I really am digging this one.



That last picture looks like it was taken by a guy named "bac1023" over at the Glock Talk forums. That carpet is way too familiar! He's usually around the 1911 section over there more than anything so if you had any questions about it, he would be the one to ask.
SchlaffTablett  [Team Member]
7/9/2011 3:32:36 AM EST
There shouldn't be any problem importing a Z-88 now. They more than meet the import points and S. Africa is no longer on the no-trade list for weapons unless something has recently changed.Also, I did some looking around and it appears that it may be now be a licensed copy but I'm still not 100% on that.

The French 92G's have never been imported or (to my knowlege) exported from France. They are made there under license by the St. Etienne factory as the PMAS G1.

I do have some good pics of the 920 but they are on one of my external drives back home so I can't help you right yet but I may have it in a "92 collection" pic here, I'll have to look.
Milo5  [Member]
7/9/2011 3:58:06 AM EST
Originally Posted By SchlaffTablett:
There shouldn't be any problem importing a Z-88 now. They more than meet the import points and S. Africa is no longer on the no-trade list for weapons unless something has recently changed.Also, I did some looking around and it appears that it may be now be a licensed copy but I'm still not 100% on that.

The French 92G's have never been imported or (to my knowlege) exported from France. They are made there under license by the St. Etienne factory as the PMAS G1.

I do have some good pics of the 920 but they are on one of my external drives back home so I can't help you right yet but I may have it in a "92 collection" pic here, I'll have to look.


I tried to snag one of the Maadi's but was too late to the party.
SchlaffTablett  [Team Member]
7/9/2011 11:53:17 AM EST


The 920 is on the bottom row left. It has a F/FS style frame and slide with the exception of the heel magazine release. It's built with the traditional (shitty) standard of quality I expect out of all Egyptian firearms (except the AKs of course).
Milo5  [Member]
7/9/2011 10:24:15 PM EST
Originally Posted By SchlaffTablett:
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h55/Schlafftablett/berettas.jpg

The 920 is on the bottom row left. It has a F/FS style frame and slide with the exception of the heel magazine release. It's built with the traditional (shitty) standard of quality I expect out of all Egyptian firearms (except the AKs of course).


Thanks.
My Maadi AKM Pars International Sporter is pretty shitty too.
SchlaffTablett  [Team Member]
7/10/2011 9:45:25 AM EST
Yeah I'll bet!
DanTSX  [Team Member]
7/11/2011 4:18:10 PM EST
Originally Posted By Nakanokalronin:
Originally Posted By DanTSX:
Originally Posted By Milo5:
Century Arms imported a couple batches of Egyptian made Maadi 92S pistols in the last few years.
They were snapped up pretty quickly and the quality is about par with the earlier Maadi Helwan/Brigadeer copies.


That sounds pretty interesting too.

I'm not necessarily looking for the most reliable, combat-proven handgun out there. I've got my Glocks and HKs that I'm very comfortable with. A nice full-size 9mm range toy with some interesting or distinguishing features is what I'm after.

The Helwan is sounding pretty cool. I have seen them around, but never had any interest before.
http://picturearchive.auctionarms.com/2794083018/9711741/maadi%20helwan%20001.jpg_thumbnail1.jpg

What about this one? The Vektor SP1 looks like something a Klingon would have designed. But hey, it has a frame-safety!
http://up.picr.de/6122739.jpg
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n5/bac1023/000_2387-1.jpg
Actually, I really am digging this one.



That last picture looks like it was taken by a guy named "bac1023" over at the Glock Talk forums. That carpet if way too familiar! He's usually around the 1911 section over there more than anything so if you had any questions about it, he would be the one to ask.


Awesome! Thanks for the info!
SchlaffTablett  [Team Member]
7/14/2011 8:36:27 AM EST
Oh! I totally forgot about the Llama M82. Looks different but I understand that it's mechanically very very close... of course so is the P38.
Ar-15TechGuy  [Member]
8/20/2011 5:12:08 PM EST
Originally Posted By DanTSX:

I'd probably buy only a beretta, but I'm interested in hearing of the copies of this pattern. To my knowledge, we have seen the following:

ATI-AT92 Turkish import (currently imported)
Taurus 92 from Brazil (currently imported)
Vektor SP1 & SP2 from South Africa (not currently imported)

Any that I am missing? Any pros or cons? It seems like I can get a lightly used Beretta for less than a new Taurus. Price is not really an issue, but I still have not found the gun that would make it all click.


If you are leaning towards a Beretta but considering the Taurus - I would consider the Taurus a good choice and have no issues with owning one.

In 1974 Beretta won a contract to produce small arms for the army of Brazil. Part of the deal was that Beretta had to build a factory in country and use local labor. When the contract ran out in 1980, Beretta sold the plant “lock, stock and barrel,” to Taurus and everything that once belonged to Beretta, including drawings, tooling, machinery, and a very experienced work force belonged to Taurus.
Casebrius  [Member]
8/21/2011 12:39:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By ThomasTedder:
I got some surplus m9 mags for $10 that work great.


Any more to be had?

wanderson  [Member]
8/25/2011 9:15:54 AM EST
In 1974 Beretta won a contract to produce small arms for the army of Brazil. Part of the deal was that Beretta had to build a factory in country and use local labor. When the contract ran out in 1980, Beretta sold the plant “lock, stock and barrel,” to Taurus and everything that once belonged to Beretta, including drawings, tooling, machinery, and a very experienced work force belonged to Taurus. [/quote]

Isn't that the same deal with the Turkish made ATI clones? A once Beretta-owned factory that continued production after Beretta left?

I like what I've been reading about the AT92s, if I see one at a good price I might pick one up. The ATI GSG-11s have a pretty good reputation as well. Although my first Beretta was a .40S&W Centurion police turn-in I bought for $300 that ran great. Eventually I did get tired of the DAO trigger and traded it in for most of what I paid for it. So there's resale to consider as well.
Milo5  [Member]
8/28/2011 4:52:59 AM EST
I found another clone made in Pakistan.
Not imported here but a clone just the same.

http://youtu.be/X1tMdS_a7JY
DanTSX  [Team Member]
8/28/2011 2:34:46 PM EST
I managed to find an early stainless PT 92 for $375 but passed on it for now. Really nice gun IMO. Smooth trigger. Good fit. Might go back to see if I can knock the price down a bit more. Hoping to get into the 92 game for about $350. If I like the clones, I'll likely buy the real deal too.

I also looked at some PD trade-in 92's and 96's. Most of them rattled badly and were VERY loose. I often prefer to buy used guns, and have owned several former LEO issued handguns in the past. Usually they always exhibited a little to a lot of external wear and very little internal wear. But these Trade-in Berettas were beat inside and out. If anyone knows a good source for LEO trade-in 92's in better shape, let me know.

The most promising route to sampling the 92 type pistol is looking to be the ATI Turkish imports. My FFL will be happy to pick one up for me shipped and transferred for my budget.

If I like it, I'll likely go whole-hog and order a new 92FS INOX and a Titanium silencer to go with it. Seems odd, but thats what I do. Test the water and then go all-out if I like it.

Thanks for the suggestions and the discussion. Very interesting thread. The 92 is one of the more interesting guns out there.
Shipwreck  [Member]
8/29/2011 2:11:33 AM EST
See post #16:

http://berettaforum.net/vb/showthread.php?t=76798&page=2

Apparently, they are discontinued
DanTSX  [Team Member]
8/29/2011 7:52:28 AM EST
Originally Posted By Shipwreck:o
See post #16:

http://berettaforum.net/vb/showthread.php?t=76798&page=2

Apparently, they are discontinued


Thanks shipwreck. It looks like.these use a different locking block after all. So maybe not really a true clone. The fact that they are discontinued does not bother me if they use the same parts. But that locking block issue got my ears up.

Oh. The factory tour video in that linked thread was great. Nice to see Borat still doing legit work back home.

Are you the same shipwreck on the fnforums?

Shipwreck  [Member]
8/29/2011 11:55:50 AM EST
Yes, I am the same "Shipwreck" on all sorts of gun forums. That would be me...
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