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 How important is the striker spring? re: improving the glock trigger
adirondack47  [Team Member]
1/2/2008 2:26:18 AM
I was at the range this weekend and was talking with a guy who was shooting a G21. I told him how I have shelved my glocks because I really like the triggers on my 1911's.

He has 38k rounds in his mostly factory glock. He let me shoot it and it was hands down the nicest glock trigger I have ever shot. Not as nice as my kimber warrior, but still a very noticeble improvement over my glock's trigger. The only "improvements" he made to the pistol were a 3.5# connector and a 4# striker spring.

I had heard of the importance of the connector in attaining a smoother, lighter trigger pull on the glock but never about the importance of the striker spring. He did preface his speech by saying that a 4# spring might not be the best for factory ammo and that he used it in his pistol because he shot his own handloads exclusively and further that he only used Winchester primers which are "softer" than CCI.

My present situation is that I would like to get the trigger pull in my (stock) glock down to that level. Will the 25 cent trigger job in combination with a 3.5# connector be sufficient or will I need to buy a new striker spring also to do that?

Any input is greatly appreciated....
ROMAD-556  [Member]
1/2/2008 2:53:20 AM
Pretty much anybody else will be a better expert but I have been using a 3.5# connector, NY trigger spring and +1lb Wolf striker spring for several years in both my 17 and 21. I love the trigger and feel its a great combination for a tactical application.
Dano523  [Team Member]
1/2/2008 4:22:02 AM
Is the pistol for range or carry.

If range/target, you can do anything you want to the pistol, including taking the trigger break down to 2lbs and even install a over travel set up to reduce the amount that the trigger will move after the striker release point. Bottom line here is if the pistol doesn't fire, you have all the time in the world to correct it.

If for carry, then maybe a $.15 trigger job, but the rest left stock or trigger pull increased if needed.

As for a 1911, when the FCG is set correctly without a Firing pin block system (Colt design), the trigger total movement is only about 1/4" and your never going to get a Glock set up this way.

Don't get me wrong, I drink the Kool-aid, but not in regards to a Glock being able to being set up better than a 1911 for action-type shooting.
H53EXPERT  [Member]
1/2/2008 7:12:11 AM
The smooth feeling trigger was due to all the rounds he had put through the gun. The trigger parts have basically polished to each other, giving a very smooth feeling. My oldest and most fired Glock feels much smoother in the trigger than any of my other Glocks. Even the ones that I have switched out to lighter connectors and polished the parts on.
adirondack47  [Team Member]
1/2/2008 11:34:56 AM

Originally Posted By Dano523:
Is the pistol for range or carry.

If range/target, you can do anything you want to the pistol, including taking the trigger break down to 2lbs and even install a over travel set up to reduce the amount that the trigger will move after the striker release point. Bottom line here is if the pistol doesn't fire, you have all the time in the world to correct it.

If for carry, then maybe a $.15 trigger job, but the rest left stock or trigger pull increased if needed.

As for a 1911, when the FCG is set correctly without a Firing pin block system (Colt design), the trigger total movement is only about 1/4" and your never going to get a Glock set up this way.

Don't get me wrong, I drink the Kool-aid, but not in regards to a Glock being able to being set up better than a 1911 for action-type shooting.



Dont get me wrong, Im keenly aware of the fact that glock & 1911 triggers are apples & oranges. I just want to know how integral the striker spring is towards the goal of a smoother, lighter trigger on a glock.

As for the purposes of the pistol(s) (I have 5), they could be range or carry guns. Im not looking for a 2lb trigger. 3-4lbs is ideal in my mind which is certainly an improvement over the 8lb stock trigger.
Dano523  [Team Member]
1/2/2008 3:24:35 PM
For 3-4 lbs, a $.15 trigger job with polished 3.5 lb connector, and a standard trigger spring will get you there cleanly. If you want to drop down a little more, then there is the option of changing the stock trigger spring to a lighter trigger spring which would decrease the amount of take up tension to the break wall as well (what little there is with polish parts). At this point in regards to springs, this leaves the striker spring as the last item that could be changed out to further decrease the take up pull/break weight (read the striker spring is where you start running into problems with primer ignitions on harder primers). Also, the final thing to do to get the trigger down father (as light as they will go) is to start setting sears (trigger bar and striker) to clean up the last of the trigger wall break (read make the trigger break point crisper one you hit the wall, and would decrease break weight as well).

Regarding the connectors, the differences between the units is just the back L angle that the end of the trigger bar walks down to release the striker. Since these are a constant angle for each type, then the differences in spring tension to trigger bar release point (clears the disco back angle) dictates the amount of break weight for the over all affect.


As for a fresh stock Glock, it will break at about 5.5lbs if it has a standard connector (5.5) and standard trigger spring. Polishing the FCG parts (trigger job) drops the break weight down a little, but better yet, when you pull the trigger back, the take up slack is smothered out. If your triggers are breaking at 8 lbs, then you have either a NY trigger springs installed instead of the stock trigger spring or the pistol came with a 8 lb connector.

My suggestion to you since Glock parts are so cheap is to pick up a standard and a lighter trigger spring, and a 3.5 disco (and 5.5 if you units have 8lb connectors) and go from there to test the combo’s out on your own, If you want to go to the next step of installing a over travel (go to play with one at least once in your life), the you could just pick up a new trigger housing to allow you to test/play with as well.
Even with the Lone wolf over travel trigger housing, you looking at a total of about $40 if you shop between Glockmeister and midwayusa to play with each of your pistols to find the combos you like for them.

Note Below is a photo of the NY trigger springs (the colored plastic type, alone with a standard and lighter standard type below them. If you do not have one of these colored units in your trigger housings, then you have 8lb connectors in the pistols.
glockmeister.com/images/gmtsk.jpg

Shopping list from midway,
Lone Wolf Ultimate Trigger Stop Glock 17, 17L, 19, 26, 34
Product #: 113018Available $18.99$
Glock Connector All Models 5.5lb
Product #: 328614Available $4.89
Scherer Connector Glock all Models 3.5 lb
Product #: 932026Available $9.99


And the link for the springs,
http://glockmeister.com/product_info.php?cPath=5_41&products_id=235
Trigger Kit #3 - Glockmeister's custom competition trigger spring, one stock coil trigger spring and your choice of a NY trigger spring or a NY extra trigger spring. Please specify a NY1 or NY2 trigger spring in your product description. We default to the NY1 if nothing is specified. $6.00

http://glockmeister.com/product_info.php?cPath=5_43&products_id=231
Reduced striker spring for $2.50
Adirondack47  [Team Member]
1/2/2008 4:51:13 PM

Originally Posted By Dano523:
For 3-4 lbs, a $.15 trigger job with polished 3.5 lb connector, and a standard trigger spring will get you there cleanly. If you want to drop down a little more, then there is the option of changing the stock trigger spring to a lighter trigger spring which would decrease the amount of take up tension to the break wall as well (what little there is with polish parts). At this point in regards to springs, this leaves the striker spring as the last item that could be changed out to further decrease the take up pull/break weight (read the striker spring is where you start running into problems with primer ignitions on harder primers). Also, the final thing to do to get the trigger down father (as light as they will go) is to start setting sears (trigger bar and striker) to clean up the last of the trigger wall break (read make the trigger break point crisper one you hit the wall, and would decrease break weight as well).

Regarding the connectors, the differences between the units is just the back L angle that the end of the trigger bar walks down to release the striker. Since these are a constant angle for each type, then the differences in spring tension to trigger bar release point (clears the disco back angle) dictates the amount of break weight for the over all affect.


As for a fresh stock Glock, it will break at about 5.5lbs if it has a standard connector (5.5) and standard trigger spring. Polishing the FCG parts (trigger job) drops the break weight down a little, but better yet, when you pull the trigger back, the take up slack is smothered out. If your triggers are breaking at 8 lbs, then you have either a NY trigger springs installed instead of the stock trigger spring or the pistol came with a 8 lb connector.

My suggestion to you since Glock parts are so cheap is to pick up a standard and a lighter trigger spring, and a 3.5 disco (and 5.5 if you units have 8lb connectors) and go from there to test the combo’s out on your own, If you want to go to the next step of installing a over travel (go to play with one at least once in your life), the you could just pick up a new trigger housing to allow you to test/play with as well.
Even with the Lone wolf over travel trigger housing, you looking at a total of about $40 if you shop between Glockmeister and midwayusa to play with each of your pistols to find the combos you like for them.

Note Below is a photo of the NY trigger springs (the colored plastic type, alone with a standard and lighter standard type below them. If you do not have one of these colored units in your trigger housings, then you have 8lb connectors in the pistols.
glockmeister.com/images/gmtsk.jpg

Shopping list from midway,
Lone Wolf Ultimate Trigger Stop Glock 17, 17L, 19, 26, 34
Product #: 113018Available $18.99$
Glock Connector All Models 5.5lb
Product #: 328614Available $4.89
Scherer Connector Glock all Models 3.5 lb
Product #: 932026Available $9.99


And the link for the springs,
http://glockmeister.com/product_info.php?cPath=5_41&products_id=235
Trigger Kit #3 - Glockmeister's custom competition trigger spring, one stock coil trigger spring and your choice of a NY trigger spring or a NY extra trigger spring. Please specify a NY1 or NY2 trigger spring in your product description. We default to the NY1 if nothing is specified. $6.00

http://glockmeister.com/product_info.php?cPath=5_43&products_id=231
Reduced striker spring for $2.50


Thanks for the explanation Dano. The link you posted didnt work. I am going to go with the 25 cent trigger job, 3.5# disconnector and new trigger spring's. I dont think im gonna change the striker springs because I want the ability to shoot factory or handloads at any time without hassle.

What is the stock trigger spring weight in an out of the box glock? I just checked LoneWolf and they have (2) Glock NY triggers. The "olive" which is an 8lb trigger and the "orange" which is a 12lb. Ill assume that the 8lb NY trigger will provide the "lighter" recoil?

They also have a 5lb Lonewolf trigger spring. Im assuming that would provide an ever "lighter" pull over the 8 & 12 pound glock NY triggers?
TannerB  [Member]
1/2/2008 5:23:18 PM
I have a lighter striker spring in my race gun and I use factory ammo, including wwb and blazer. I have never had a light strike. I have put a heavier trigger spring, 3.5 connector, and polished everything. with that I got a 3.25 pound pull. I don't know what it is now since the lighter striker spring.
COSteve  [Member]
1/2/2008 7:06:06 PM

Originally Posted By TannerB:
I have a lighter striker spring in my race gun and I use factory ammo, including wwb and blazer. I have never had a light strike. I have put a heavier trigger spring, 3.5 connector, and polished everything. with that I got a 3.25 pound pull. I don't know what it is now since the lighter striker spring.

Note: Dano523 has his spring names mixed up in his post above. For a lighter trigger pull, you lighten the Striker (Firing Pin) spring rate and increase the Trigger Spring rate as TannerB has correctly stated above. You want the heavier Trigger Spring (6#) because it pulls the trigger bar forward, lightening the weight of the pull. You want a lighter Striker Spring (4#) because pulling the trigger involves 1st compressing this spring.

I've found that the 25¢ trigger job after installing a Lone Wolf 3.5# connector (crisper break than either the Glock or Scherer due to it’s factory angle + the lighter weight arm), plus a heavier trigger spring gives me a really great trigger. Light pull weight and smooth function while maintaining a crisp break (for a Glock).
H53EXPERT  [Member]
1/2/2008 7:12:39 PM

Originally Posted By COSteve:

Originally Posted By TannerB:
I have a lighter striker spring in my race gun and I use factory ammo, including wwb and blazer. I have never had a light strike. I have put a heavier trigger spring, 3.5 connector, and polished everything. with that I got a 3.25 pound pull. I don't know what it is now since the lighter striker spring.

Note: Dano523 has his spring names mixed up in his post above. For a lighter trigger pull, you lighten the Striker (Firing Pin) spring rate and increase the Trigger Spring rate as TannerB has correctly stated above. You want the heavier Trigger Spring (6#) because it pulls the trigger bar forward, lightening the weight of the pull. You want a lighter Striker Spring (4#) because pulling the trigger involves 1st compressing this spring.

I've found that the 25¢ trigger job after installing a Lone Wolf 3.5# connector (crisper break than either the Glock or Scherer due to it’s factory angle + the lighter weight arm), plus a heavier trigger spring gives me a really great trigger. Light pull weight and smooth function while maintaining a crisp break (for a Glock).


I think you meant to say the heavier trigger spring assists in pulling the trigger to the rear, because it puts rearward pressure on the trigger bar, not forward.
TannerB  [Member]
1/2/2008 9:08:49 PM

Originally Posted By H53EXPERT:

Originally Posted By COSteve:

Originally Posted By TannerB:
I have a lighter striker spring in my race gun and I use factory ammo, including wwb and blazer. I have never had a light strike. I have put a heavier trigger spring, 3.5 connector, and polished everything. with that I got a 3.25 pound pull. I don't know what it is now since the lighter striker spring.

Note: Dano523 has his spring names mixed up in his post above. For a lighter trigger pull, you lighten the Striker (Firing Pin) spring rate and increase the Trigger Spring rate as TannerB has correctly stated above. You want the heavier Trigger Spring (6#) because it pulls the trigger bar forward, lightening the weight of the pull. You want a lighter Striker Spring (4#) because pulling the trigger involves 1st compressing this spring.

I've found that the 25¢ trigger job after installing a Lone Wolf 3.5# connector (crisper break than either the Glock or Scherer due to it’s factory angle + the lighter weight arm), plus a heavier trigger spring gives me a really great trigger. Light pull weight and smooth function while maintaining a crisp break (for a Glock).


I think you meant to say the heavier trigger spring assists in pulling the trigger to the rear, because it puts rearward pressure on the trigger bar, not forward.


Right. Later this month I'll be able to tell what weight it is now with the lighter striker spring.
Adirondack47  [Team Member]
1/2/2008 11:22:33 PM

Originally Posted By COSteve:

Originally Posted By TannerB:
I have a lighter striker spring in my race gun and I use factory ammo, including wwb and blazer. I have never had a light strike. I have put a heavier trigger spring, 3.5 connector, and polished everything. with that I got a 3.25 pound pull. I don't know what it is now since the lighter striker spring.

Note: Dano523 has his spring names mixed up in his post above. For a lighter trigger pull, you lighten the Striker (Firing Pin) spring rate and increase the Trigger Spring rate as TannerB has correctly stated above. You want the heavier Trigger Spring (6#) because it pulls the trigger bar forward, lightening the weight of the pull. You want a lighter Striker Spring (4#) because pulling the trigger involves 1st compressing this spring.

I've found that the 25¢ trigger job after installing a Lone Wolf 3.5# connector (crisper break than either the Glock or Scherer due to it’s factory angle + the lighter weight arm), plus a heavier trigger spring gives me a really great trigger. Light pull weight and smooth function while maintaining a crisp break (for a Glock).



Thank you for the clarification on the trigger spring issue. What is the trigger spring weight on stock, out of the box glocks?
COSteve  [Member]
1/2/2008 11:44:20 PM
5# if I'm not mistaken.

Glockparts has them for the huge price of $5 and their shipping on small items is very reasonable.
COSteve  [Member]
1/2/2008 11:57:34 PM

Originally Posted By H53EXPERT:

Originally Posted By COSteve:

Originally Posted By TannerB:
I have a lighter striker spring in my race gun and I use factory ammo, including wwb and blazer. I have never had a light strike. I have put a heavier trigger spring, 3.5 connector, and polished everything. with that I got a 3.25 pound pull. I don't know what it is now since the lighter striker spring.

Note: Dano523 has his spring names mixed up in his post above. For a lighter trigger pull, you lighten the Striker (Firing Pin) spring rate and increase the Trigger Spring rate as TannerB has correctly stated above. You want the heavier Trigger Spring (6#) because it pulls the trigger bar forward, lightening the weight of the pull. You want a lighter Striker Spring (4#) because pulling the trigger involves 1st compressing this spring.

I've found that the 25¢ trigger job after installing a Lone Wolf 3.5# connector (crisper break than either the Glock or Scherer due to it’s factory angle + the lighter weight arm), plus a heavier trigger spring gives me a really great trigger. Light pull weight and smooth function while maintaining a crisp break (for a Glock).


I think you meant to say the heavier trigger spring assists in pulling the trigger to the rear, because it puts rearward pressure on the trigger bar, not forward.

You are absolutely correct. I got my front and back mixed up there for a minute.

For those who are more visual, the link below will provide an animated Glock drawing which may help you understand the process. You can clearly see the Trigger Spring above the Connector as well as why the G21's new trigger bar (the -1 version) has a higher cruciform to disengage the Striker Safety (firing pin) a bit sooner.

Animated Glock Action by Genitron.com

NOTE: For more information including a discussion of the process. Read the description then play the animation. At the end of the animation, a round will fire and a new description and animation will appear. Continue on to read each discussion box. Be sure to reload the pistol.
Adirondack47  [Team Member]
1/3/2008 12:52:57 AM

Originally Posted By COSteve:
5# if I'm not mistaken.

Glockparts has them for the huge price of $5 and their shipping on small items is very reasonable.


Steve- Does the $5 spring have any advantages over the $3 glock NY1 or NY2 trigger in terms of trigger smoothness or pull weight that would warrant the extra $2? Ill be buying everything (x5) so it adds up fast.
ROMAD-556  [Member]
1/3/2008 1:10:00 AM

For those who are more visual, the link below will provide an animated Glock drawing which may help you understand the process. You can clearly see the Trigger Spring above the Connector as well as why the G21's new trigger bar (the -1 version) has a higher cruciform to disengage the Striker Safety (firing pin) a bit sooner.

Animated Glock Action by Genitron.com

NOTE: For more information including a discussion of the process. Read the description then play the animation. At the end of the animation, a round will fire and a new description and animation will appear. Continue on to read each discussion box. Be sure to reload the pistol.


THANKS!!

Thats one kick ass detailed explanation of the inner workings. I had a pretty good idea about how everything worked together. That animation + details put together the missing gaps in my understandings.

Simply awesome. Now I just want to be able to download a copy of it

Got it done, heres how:

1) Download / install a flash movie player (freeware)
http://www.eolsoft.com/freeware/flash_movie_player/

2) Download the Glock demo
http://www.genitron.com/glock23/Glock23.swf

Dano523  [Team Member]
1/3/2008 2:18:16 AM
FYI: The NY trigger springs make the trigger feel like that of a double action revolver, hence instead of a light take-up pull until you get to the break wall (point that the transfer bar tip rides down the connector L angle), you have more trigger tension all the way through the pull (read dam near do not feel the wall before the striker is released and the trigger pull becomes one long hard pull from the start at rest position to the end of the pull/when the striker is released).

TannerB  [Member]
1/3/2008 9:40:46 AM
Seems like ive always read that anything with NY gives it like an 8 pound trigger, maybe im wrong.
Adirondack47  [Team Member]
1/3/2008 12:16:34 PM

Originally Posted By Dano523:
FYI: The NY trigger springs make the trigger feel like that of a double action revolver, hence instead of a light take-up pull until you get to the break wall (point that the transfer bar tip rides down the connector L angle), you have more trigger tension all the way through the pull (read dam near do not feel the wall before the striker is released and the trigger pull becomes one long hard pull from the start at rest position to the end of the pull/when the striker is released).



Ill jump out on a limb and take a guess that isnt a vote of confidence for either of the NY triggers?
ROMAD-556  [Member]
1/3/2008 3:41:39 PM

Originally Posted By TannerB:
Seems like ive always read that anything with NY gives it like an 8 pound trigger, maybe im wrong.


Thats what I thought too but a lot of folks said the NY spring with the 3.5# connector was a good combo. I put the combo in my G21 and I must say its pretty nice - I don't have a trigger scale but the 3.5# did lighten things up and the NY spring just makes the first stage feel just like the second stage (to me).

I have a 17 with the 3.5# connector and a reduced power trigger spring as well. The main difference that I can tell is with the 17 the 1st stage is very light and the 2nd is where the noticeable pull starts. With the 21 setup the 1st and 2nd feel almost the same and the 3.5# connector makes the break seem to happen lighter than before.

I cant really tell that much of a difference when I am shooting it to be honest as the reset distance and feel is all the same. The NY spring makes it feel more like a single stage trigger.
COSteve  [Team Member]
1/3/2008 5:18:05 PM

Originally Posted By Adirondack47:

Originally Posted By COSteve:
5# if I'm not mistaken.

Glockparts has them for the huge price of $5 and their shipping on small items is very reasonable.


Steve- Does the $5 spring have any advantages over the $3 glock NY1 or NY2 trigger in terms of trigger smoothness or pull weight that would warrant the extra $2? Ill be buying everything (x5) so it adds up fast.

The NY trigger spring results in a heavier trigger pull. It was developed for the NY city cops to make it harder for them to squeeze off a round. The 6# Competition Trigger Spring is designed to make your trigger pull lighter.

If your question was meant to ask, "Is the Comp spring $2 better than the stock Trigger Spring? My answer is this. "The combination of the Lone Wolf connector, a Glockparts Competition Spring, and a 25¢ Trigger job results in a lighter, smoother, crisp breaking Glock trigger."
Adirondack47  [Team Member]
1/3/2008 5:36:53 PM

Originally Posted By COSteve:

Originally Posted By Adirondack47:

Originally Posted By COSteve:
5# if I'm not mistaken.

Glockparts has them for the huge price of $5 and their shipping on small items is very reasonable.


Steve- Does the $5 spring have any advantages over the $3 glock NY1 or NY2 trigger in terms of trigger smoothness or pull weight that would warrant the extra $2? Ill be buying everything (x5) so it adds up fast.

The NY trigger spring results in a heavier trigger pull. It was developed for the NY city cops to make it harder for them to squeeze off a round. The 6# Competition Trigger Spring is designed to make your trigger pull lighter.

If your question was meant to ask, "Is the Comp spring $2 better than the stock Trigger Spring? My answer is this. "The combination of the Lone Wolf connector, a Glockparts Competition Spring, and a 25¢ Trigger job results in a lighter, smoother, crisp breaking Glock trigger."


Thank you again for your insight.