AR15.Com Archives
 Husband - Wife - Gun ownership and CCW (PA specifically)
Quarterbore  [Team Member]
11/3/2005 7:58:58 AM EST
My wife and I own thee handguns at this point with two more on the way. We have a Taurus 38 which is registered in my wifes name and it is her primary CCW piece. We also own a Glock 21 and Glock 30 which are both registered in my name. I now also have a Glock 17 and Glock 26 that I will be getting in the next week and I am debating if I want to buy these in my name or in my wifes name.

Can someone advise if it really matters if the pistols are registered in my name and she caries them with her CCW permit? OR on the contrary, if I have the Glock 26 transfered to her and then I decide to carry it?

I believe there is no legal issues with a husband and wife carrying the partners gun with the given that both partners have valid CCW permits... Just looking for reassurance and any advise why it would be smart to put one of the Glocks in my wifes name.
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TheJH  [Team Member]
11/3/2005 8:37:07 AM EST
You have to register your guns? Man that must suck!
M4arc  [Team Member]
11/3/2005 8:48:13 AM EST
What do you mean by "register" Quarterbore?

Do you mean that you have to register them with the city or state or are you talking about who's name went on the FFL transfer sheet and who's name was run through NICS at the time of purchase?

Reload_em  [Team Member]
11/3/2005 8:57:22 AM EST
In Western PA we don't have to register anything(other than going through the NICS check at the time of purchase), as long as our CCW permit is valid. I thought that was the same in the whole state.

I can legally carry any handgun that I own at any time as long as nobody can see it.

I am very curious as to what county you are in? Are you in a small town in the East?
sight-rail  [Member]
11/3/2005 8:58:08 AM EST
whoa whoa whoa....

No you don't need transfer to her. My wife ccw's weapon is a gun that I purchased.

My info is on the 4473, if you mean "registered"

My only concern is the civil suit if the scum's family tries if she ever has to use it.
But that's why it's in my name not her's.

paramarine326  [Member]
11/3/2005 9:42:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By sight-rail:


My only concern is the civil suit if the scum's family tries if she ever has to use it.
But that's why it's in my name not her's.




I'm curious as to what your logic is there? Not trying to flame you, I'm just wondering how that will help you or your wife in a lawsuit?
fight4yourrights  [Team Member]
11/3/2005 10:03:23 AM EST
We don't have registration in PA.


(other than some illegal registries )

You can carry whatever gun your house owns.
Quarterbore  [Team Member]
11/3/2005 10:05:33 AM EST
Well, perhaps I am not clear and I don't have a copy of all the forms with me but in Pennsylvania all HANDGUNS need to be transfered through a FFL. The transfer at the FFL is done on the federal 4473 (I got to use one of the new WHITE ONES LAST NIGHT!) plus there are forms for the state. The state forms, to my knowledge, get logged into a computer so the state police know what HANDGUNS you own.

We have no requirement to do long gun transfers person-to-person but pistols must be transfered via a FFL or at least that is how I understand the law here in PA!

Now, I also believe there are a few exceptions such as direct family members but what that means I am not sure... Husband to wife , Father to son , man to third cousin twice removed ?

I didn't think about just how complicated this question was when I first posted it... sorry
El_Cid  [Member]
11/3/2005 11:07:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By Quarterbore:
Well, perhaps I am not clear and I don't have a copy of all the forms with me but in Pennsylvania all HANDGUNS need to be transfered through a FFL. The transfer at the FFL is done on the federal 4473 (I got to use one of the new WHITE ONES LAST NIGHT!) plus there are forms for the state. The state forms, to my knowledge, get logged into a computer so the state police know what HANDGUNS you own.

We have no requirement to do long gun transfers person-to-person but pistols must be transfered via a FFL or at least that is how I understand the law here in PA!

Now, I also believe there are a few exceptions such as direct family members but what that means I am not sure... Husband to wife , Father to son , man to third cousin twice removed ?

I didn't think about just how complicated this question was when I first posted it... sorry


This is incorrect. Whoever explained the law to you didn't do it properly. The state police in PA do NOT track handgun ownership. You can sell a handgun you own to a neighbor and are not required to do any paperwork. It is usually a good idea to draft a "bill of sale" (index cards work well), but it is not required on the sale of used firearms.

If you give or sell a handgun to anyone (wife or some dude you work with), there is not a requirement for an FFL to be involved. Sounds like a gunshop or FFL owner is trying to get a commission off your transfers when his services are not required. That only applies to new purchases.

Now, there is what they call a "straw man purchase" where you go buy a gun using your ID for the purpose of giving it to someone else (usually a person who could not legally purchase one), but that isn't what you are talking about. If I buy a handgun today and next week my wife or girlfriend decides she wants a pistol I can give it to her as a gift. No paperwork required, no laws are broken (provided she is of age and not a felon).

I have been a resident of PA since 1987 and have bought guns there as well as other places I have been stationed. Someone has fed you a load of bull.
Quarterbore  [Team Member]
11/3/2005 11:17:30 AM EST
Interesting...

I will add that the state does track your purchases! As an example my brother after his home invasion went out and bought a small handgun that he could keep on his person around the house. The very next day the detectives involved in the investigation were asking about the purchase... Mind you it was legal and it was none of their business but they were watching him and the state had him red flagged so they got notice about the purchase!

I am not sure where to begin to look up laws about a person to person transfer of a handgun... I will try to look it up as I get time.
Quarterbore  [Team Member]
11/3/2005 11:20:54 AM EST
Please don't hold this against me as I know better then to use these idiots as a reliable reference but I will list it anyways until I can find a better reference....

From: http://www.bradycampaign.org/legislation/state/viewstate.php?st=pa#secondary
RE Pennsylvania Laws & Secondary Sales (Person to person sales)



State law requires a person buying or obtaining ownership of a handgun to go through a criminal background check, while buyers of shotguns and rifles do not. All handgun sales, including sales by private individuals, at gun shows or through newspaper or Internet advertisements, must be completed at a Sheriff's office or through a federally licensed firearms dealer.



Here is a better reference, but it is full of legaleze... (Still not clear that this requires this mechanism however)

www.pacode.com/secure/data/037/chapter33/s33.111.html


www.psp.state.pa.us/psp/cwp/browse.asp?A=15&BMDRN=2000&BCOB=0&C=34765

What do I need to know about buying on the internet?

Pennsylvania law requires no background checks or transaction records to be completed between individuals for long gun transfers, but there may be requirements under other state laws regarding the transfer of long guns. Federal law requires private transfers of long guns between individuals from different states to be transacted through a licensed firearm dealer. Handgun transfers between PA residents must be conducted at a PA licensed firearms dealer. Both buyer and seller must be present to complete the transfer and a background check is required on the buyer. The only way a handgun may be legally transferred between individuals from different states, is when arrangements for the sale of the handgun are made through a licensed firearm dealer from the purchaser’s State of residence to obtain the firearm from the dealer.




clubsoda22  [Member]
11/3/2005 12:24:45 PM EST
In pennsylvania you MUST go through an FFL when transfering a handgun in state. It's state law. The one EXCEPTION to this state law is transfers between spouses, parents and children or grandparents to grandchildren. In these cases no paperwork needs to be done. If you own a handgun in PA and your spouse, parent or child is not prohibited from owning one, it's as good as theirs.

Anyone who has said otherwise in this thread is mistaken.

Hope this answers your question.
Quarterbore  [Team Member]
11/3/2005 12:48:36 PM EST
So, I guess I already got one reply saying it is fine... but it is a non-issue for a husband and wife to share a pistol and either can carry it/them with a valid CCW?

Seems logical that it would be legal but I think I will still put the G-26 in my wifes name (ie have her fill out the paperwork and sign for those that like to split hairs).
hapjack  [Team Member]
11/3/2005 1:07:29 PM EST
I would say that the firearm that is carried for CCW would be best registered in that persons name.

Oh yeah, PA does keep a purchase record database.....www.acslpa.org/register/registration.html
Voodoo17  [Team Member]
11/3/2005 3:50:24 PM EST
Before the more liberal CCW laws I tried to get a carry permit. During an interview with a 2nd district detective I was asked if I still owned certain guns. The detective then proceded to name plus provide the serial numbers for each of my guns. This was Philly and was about 15 years ago. I was very surprized that the detective had the information. Hope things have changed.
Researcher  [Member]
11/3/2005 6:09:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By El_Cid:
[This is incorrect. Whoever explained the law to you didn't do it properly. The state police in PA do NOT track handgun ownership. You can sell a handgun you own to a neighbor and are not required to do any paperwork. It is usually a good idea to draft a "bill of sale" (index cards work well), but it is not required on the sale of used firearms.

If you give or sell a handgun to anyone (wife or some dude you work with), there is not a requirement for an FFL to be involved. Sounds like a gunshop or FFL owner is trying to get a commission off your transfers when his services are not required. That only applies to new purchases.

Now, there is what they call a "straw man purchase" where you go buy a gun using your ID for the purpose of giving it to someone else (usually a person who could not legally purchase one), but that isn't what you are talking about. If I buy a handgun today and next week my wife or girlfriend decides she wants a pistol I can give it to her as a gift. No paperwork required, no laws are broken (provided she is of age and not a felon).

I have been a resident of PA since 1987 and have bought guns there as well as other places I have been stationed. Someone has fed you a load of bull.



Do not listen to this advice, it is completely wrong. Clubsoda was right on.
TheJH  [Team Member]
11/4/2005 6:52:51 AM EST
Note to self.... don't ever move to PA!
atrophis  [Member]
11/4/2005 7:19:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By TheJH:
Note to self.... don't ever move to PA!



No joke. I got to go there this weekend to visit a friend. blah.
Quarterbore  [Team Member]
11/4/2005 7:25:22 AM EST
It's not that bad... we have MGs, SBRs, Silencers, No-Ban-Rifles and Mags...

They just keep a paper trail on handguns... I can live with that...

If they run a check on me they are going to see my NFA stuff anyways so the fact that I have a pistol is the least of their concerns!
Researcher  [Member]
11/4/2005 7:37:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By atrophis:

Originally Posted By TheJH:
Note to self.... don't ever move to PA!



No joke. I got to go there this weekend to visit a friend. blah.



So we have to transfer handguns. That is basically it. PA's gun laws are among the friendliest in the country.

At least we can carry concealed in our cars
WMHM4  [Team Member]
11/4/2005 7:43:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By TheJH:
Note to self.... don't ever move to PA!



PA is considered one of the best states for gun owners.

My carry gun (G19) was purchased by my wife as a present to me and I am legally allowed to have it with no FFL transfer.
TheJH  [Team Member]
11/4/2005 8:38:11 AM EST

Originally Posted By Researcher:

Originally Posted By atrophis:

Originally Posted By TheJH:
Note to self.... don't ever move to PA!



No joke. I got to go there this weekend to visit a friend. blah.



So we have to transfer handguns. That is basically it. PA's gun laws are among the friendliest in the country.

At least we can carry concealed in our cars



So can I I can have sbr and mg to!
Researcher  [Member]
11/4/2005 9:08:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By TheJH:

Originally Posted By Researcher:

Originally Posted By atrophis:

Originally Posted By TheJH:
Note to self.... don't ever move to PA!



No joke. I got to go there this weekend to visit a friend. blah.



So we have to transfer handguns. That is basically it. PA's gun laws are among the friendliest in the country.

At least we can carry concealed in our cars



So can I I can have sbr and mg to!



But you can't go into a movie theater-admissions. Someplace alcohol is sold, banks, events occuring in public, areas of emergency or riot. Great gun state
mppppp  [Member]
11/4/2005 9:16:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By Researcher:

Originally Posted By El_Cid:
[This is incorrect. Whoever explained the law to you didn't do it properly. The state police in PA do NOT track handgun ownership. You can sell a handgun you own to a neighbor and are not required to do any paperwork. It is usually a good idea to draft a "bill of sale" (index cards work well), but it is not required on the sale of used firearms.

If you give or sell a handgun to anyone (wife or some dude you work with), there is not a requirement for an FFL to be involved. Sounds like a gunshop or FFL owner is trying to get a commission off your transfers when his services are not required. That only applies to new purchases.

Now, there is what they call a "straw man purchase" where you go buy a gun using your ID for the purpose of giving it to someone else (usually a person who could not legally purchase one), but that isn't what you are talking about. If I buy a handgun today and next week my wife or girlfriend decides she wants a pistol I can give it to her as a gift. No paperwork required, no laws are broken (provided she is of age and not a felon).

I have been a resident of PA since 1987 and have bought guns there as well as other places I have been stationed. Someone has fed you a load of bull.



Do not listen to this advice, it is completely wrong. Clubsoda was right on.



exactly researcher - some of you pa folks really need to brush up on your handguns laws. oh and don't forget we can open carry, well, anywhere but philly (and pittsburgh?).
clubsoda22  [Member]
11/4/2005 9:58:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By mppppp:

Originally Posted By Researcher:

Originally Posted By El_Cid:
[This is incorrect. Whoever explained the law to you didn't do it properly. The state police in PA do NOT track handgun ownership. You can sell a handgun you own to a neighbor and are not required to do any paperwork. It is usually a good idea to draft a "bill of sale" (index cards work well), but it is not required on the sale of used firearms.

If you give or sell a handgun to anyone (wife or some dude you work with), there is not a requirement for an FFL to be involved. Sounds like a gunshop or FFL owner is trying to get a commission off your transfers when his services are not required. That only applies to new purchases.

Now, there is what they call a "straw man purchase" where you go buy a gun using your ID for the purpose of giving it to someone else (usually a person who could not legally purchase one), but that isn't what you are talking about. If I buy a handgun today and next week my wife or girlfriend decides she wants a pistol I can give it to her as a gift. No paperwork required, no laws are broken (provided she is of age and not a felon).

I have been a resident of PA since 1987 and have bought guns there as well as other places I have been stationed. Someone has fed you a load of bull.



Do not listen to this advice, it is completely wrong. Clubsoda was right on.



exactly researcher - some of you pa folks really need to brush up on your handguns laws. oh and don't forget we can open carry, well, anywhere but philly (and pittsburgh?).



just philly, and only if you don't have a CHP. Though i believe open carry in any densely populated area is likely to get you unwanted attention, even though you're not doing anything wrong.
TheJH  [Team Member]
11/4/2005 10:38:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By Researcher:

Originally Posted By TheJH:

Originally Posted By Researcher:

Originally Posted By atrophis:

Originally Posted By TheJH:
Note to self.... don't ever move to PA!



No joke. I got to go there this weekend to visit a friend. blah.



So we have to transfer handguns. That is basically it. PA's gun laws are among the friendliest in the country.

At least we can carry concealed in our cars



So can I I can have sbr and mg to!



But you can't go into a movie theater-admissions. Someplace alcohol is sold, banks, events occuring in public, areas of emergency or riot. Great gun state



Ok you got me there! lets just say that it doesn't apply to me. I was just joking in my previous posts. One PA law that I think stinks is not being able to use a auto for hunting, what's up with that?
El_Cid  [Member]
11/7/2005 4:57:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By Researcher:

Do not listen to this advice, it is completely wrong. Clubsoda was right on.


Okay, I can admit when I am wrong... is this a recent change or am I that far out of the loop? I guess it means I won't be moving back to PA when I get out of the military...

//standing corrected//
massey130  [Member]
11/7/2005 9:42:33 AM EST
gunowners in louisiana have it pretty good right now. no separate registration process. alhough when a gun is purchased new, the gun is "associated" to that person as being the first owner after being produced by the factory for the paper trail via the now white form that is filled out. when a problem occurs on a gun i bought new & then sold, the trace starts at the factory who reports what wholeseller bought the gun. then the wholeseller reports the FFL dealer who bought the gun. then the FFL dealer looks up the gun in his paperwork & gives my name. then i get to report what i did with it. to some this constitutes registration. since there are some states that have a separate registration process after & independently of the FFL purchase, FFL purchase is not registration in La.

no paperwork or dealer is necessary when a gun is sold from one La resident to another. assumed by the previous statement is that the purchaser would be able to pass the same white form required by an FFL dealer. assuming a seller knows the purchaser, it is illegal to sell to someone who would fail the FFL form. if i sell to a stranger, i can't perform background checks, so i ask if that person has a valid La state drivers license. no license, no sale. i have a bill of sale for my own paper trail.

we have CCW that i am ready to file for. my wife & i can carry whatever guns our house owns or borrows. we can carry guns (loaded or not) in our vehicles open or concealed except in schools zones. with anti gunners working a new ban, i am acquiring everything i can before the new ban comes and i believe the anti gunners learned well from the last ban.
sysfailur  [Member]
11/9/2005 5:58:28 PM EST
Just a side-note btw... PA is open carry, not concealed fyi. Unless do they do county-restrictions? That doesn't seem right--I haven't found anything like that on the net.
sysfailur  [Member]
11/9/2005 6:12:07 PM EST
I don't know if this is the same system, but my dad knows a guy who owns a bunch of Class 3 full auto rifles, SMGs, quite a nice little arsenal. And he is registered with the police so that if they need a powerful weapon for one reason or another, they can use his.

Now, I would certainly think that he would have to offer this service to the police--but I don't know if they contacted him because they saw in the records he had so many, or if he contacted the police to offer.

In any case, kind of a cool concept but honestly in the area I live there would be absolutely no need for this unless we're invaded by Canada--but then there still wouldn't be a need *OOOO Burned*
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