help me understand carry issues..or issues with some chl'ers who carry..

ok, i usually don't like to leave comments after reading such posts about " almost close call" or "could've been" when it turned out to be nothing more than the ordinary..and i may be skipping some good info in later replies because i gave up after reading only a few, but this is nucking futs! i came to the realization that there may be a more dangerous situation with chl carriers being apparently too alert and paranoid, even. every person suddenly becomes a threat or "mugger" because he/she's just "shady" looking or approaching the chl'er, only to pass by without incident, just on their walk somewhere. Even when strangers approach to get honest help or ask for help becomes a threat, and labeled as trying to pretend to ask for help to assess their next move to attack/rob?!
i live by downtown houston (and if you don't know downtown houston- there's a soup kitchen that is filled with homeless people hanging out in the streets or sleeping under overpasses near the nice apartment i live in right across from the ballpark, and surrounded by government housings in the back yard) and get approached by people of all walks daily (even very bizaar looking individuals with more "art" on their skin and body than in the museum district, at times) pass by me on my walks everyday/night..still have not gotten mugged/stabbed/shot/beaten/robbed,etc. if i've overreacted and reach for my gun every chance i "feel threaten, or my life is endangered" because they're approaching me funny , i'm certain i would have possibly cause a chain reaction that might not turn out good in any one scenario.
having a chl and carrying a piece should not alter your assessment of the surroundings any different than if you're not carrying, or as when you did not carry before. i may be overthinking or overreacting to some of the posts i've read, but seriously, it appears that some people transform into this paranoid-but-robocop-gunhappy-individual-now-that-they-have-a-gun-on-them type of attitude when they hold the chl in their hands. also, this may be just me, but carrying in church?..are you serious?! has it come to this?
i just got my chl a few months now as a safety measure for my new family and myself when out and about, and have training to properly draw and also avoid losing safety zone or losing the weapon in close quarters. i also rely on nonlethal devices and/or fight or evasion training and tactics instead of needing a gun depending on the environment i'll be going to. i strongly believe in being aware/alert of surroundings and can say that some posts i've read from some chl'ers definitely appear to be over alert and paranoid. i don't react any different or think any different about anyone that walks pass or hanging around the vicinity, but better believe when a real threat is there i have already thought about an evasion plan or pull my piece if needed as a last resort. i have deescalated some incidences that started off bad with a few hothead/testosterone fueled individuals just by communication in which instances i bet some of these chl'ers may have whipped out the gun and escalated the situation with a bad outcome. also, prior to going somewhere i ask myself if there will be any threat risk (and what level) associated with that environment to carry or just leave it at home and rely on less lethal devices instead (i.e. going to a relative's house that i know for certain has no threat driving to or at). i understand about being aware of surroundings and assess any threat situations, especially gotta have some common sense and head screwed on properly; but, it appears there's exaggeration and overtly sensitive paranoia has overtaken quite a few chl'ers to find any chance to reach for the gun. imo, the gun is just one of many tools to stop a threat if it came down to having to resort to it.. training (mental and physical) to handle the tools is important, but it is also important to train to have a clear head and not think that everyone is out to get you...
ok, rant over

First, paragraphs, sentences, and capitalization. Holy cow.

Indeed, this is the new propaganda narrative from the gun control folks. Seems like we have a couple people a week now posting this stuff on arfcom.

I think carrying a deadly weapon with you does make you a bit more aware and paranoid in uncertain circumstances. I don't know that this is a bad thing because it only takes one time to be a victim and if you are prepared you will be. I have read, from this forum and others, CCWers over-reacting and drawing their weapon when it was completely inappropriate. I've also read that it deterred a certain crime and saved lives. I conceal carry myself and I am more aware of my surroundings, but I don't pull my gun out just because some bum asks me for money or some guy wants to know the time etc...

Somehow out of that unformatted muddle of mush this line caught my eye.

Why is that so shocking and beyond the pale for you?

Let me google church shootings for you.....

There is nothing magical about churches that protects you from crime or bad people looking to do bad things.

Holy Wall of text Batman, didn't read.

You are overreacting.
That said, there ARE paranoid schizos out there. Some of them have CWP's.

Having a weapon on you shouldn't make you MORE nervous.

Think of it like an airbag in your car. There have been a small percentage of airbag-related injuries, but does that make you want to yank the one out of your car and everyone elses? They help a lot more than they hurt.

Yes, yes they do. They've realized, in their minds, the full blossoming of their expression as a man. Avoid these people.

Couldn't force myself to read that.

Yea sorry I couldn't make it all the way through that....

As far as church goes, when I leave my house my CCW comes with me. So it's not the fact of I need my CCW at church more as I'm leaving my house & I need my CCW. Not sure why you CCW, but the only time my CCW doesn't leave the house with me is when I'm going to class on a military base here locally which doesn't allow me to, other then that it is either on me or in my truck(can't carry at work).

I like the "seatbelt" analogy better: Most times, you don't need it. But you can't put it on fast enough to offset injury, in the 1/4 second between between you seeing it coming, and then a drunk driver plows into your car.

You can still do all of those things with a gun on you.

You've just been lucky so far and haven't had one of those moments yet that makes you think "damn I would feel a lot better if I was armed right now."

Fine. You carry when/where you like, and I'll do the same based on my choices.

PS: Whenever I hear the word testosterone, I think about if the same statement would be laughably stupid if instead it had the word estrogen. Or menstruating. If so, avoid that word.

I am not reading that mess either, but from reading replies to this thread it appears the OP is not familiar with the mass shooting at Wedgwood Babtist Church in Ft Worth, or the other church shootings.

"baaah"

Sorry folks, about the non-capitalizations.
I am totally ignorant about church shootings, until I read up through the links provided. It just never dawned on me and I have never heard of such incidences to google and read up on it. Thanks for the links regarding church shootings. I did see a post regarding carrying in church and thought it might be interesting to see what's going on, and after reading all of the first page, I stopped because posters only mentioned what they carry or how they carry in church. I was more interested along the lines that someone may explain why the need or give examples to such needs..but it never materialized in the one page I read so I stopped reading there. I go to church every Sunday and there's always a couple off-duty cops sitting out front to direct traffic when people need to cross the street...I end up taking the gun off and leaving it in the lock box under the seat before walking in to church thinking who will ever do something crazy in church? Now, I know

I have nothing against CCW or certain carriers, until I started to read some of the current posts that's been cropping up lately. The title explains my stance. I know there are CCWers that have been trained and know how/when to use such force, but realizing I am in TX and know everyone and their mother CCWs, and after reading some of these "close call that turned out to be nothing really" posts, there may be a chance I (or innocent victim) may get shot by accident from some of these looney CCWers just because I was walking funny by them or approaching them asking for help and they think I am about to do something to them,etc.
I do carry, and every time I walk out the door I have my HK P2ksk watching my back. The only time I leave the HK at home is when I go over to the In-law's house or certain family's house where I know it's not needed, and use other choice of devices instead.

Cliff notes: Most of the rant was derived from me boiling over after reading some recent posts, and believe there should be more training involved for CCWers and also if they're competent enough to CCW, or have a CHL.

The world's a dangerous place, CHL holders are the least of your worries. In fact, they're so low on the scale of "things I need to run away from" that they're not even on the list at all.

Carry EVERYWHERE, where you are legal to carry, you go. It's called being prepared which you are not.

Hell yes.

If only we all could tell the future like the OP. We could all ditch these heavy ass guns and only carry them when we needed them.

np;tl;dr

First that was hard to read, if you are going write something that long please use some grammer in the future, I know this is the internet but it is seriously hard to read.

I agree that there have been a few posts on here recently that have made me scratch my head a bit, because I just don't feel they should have or being carrying a firearm, I don't want to come off anti second amendment but there are some people I wouldn't trust with a spoon that have a CHL, and pray that they don't screw things up for the 99.99999% that are responsible people. One should always try to deescalate the situation when every possible, drawing should be your second to last option with firing being the last. History for the most part has showed us that there are very few negligent situations dealing with CHL holders and IMO crime has been reduced.

As far as not carrying everywhere I was like that once, I thought I could predict what was going to happen before it happened and there is no need to carry everywhere because some places are safe. The reality is I am not God I can't predict the future therefore I carry every where I legally can. For about the first year I had my CHL I carried everywhere then I got lax only carried it once in a while like going out of town because my town was safe, then all of sudden we had a bunch of robberies in my small town less than 10K, and it made me rethink my safe zones, since then I have seen issues of home invasions as well. I have realized it can happen anywhere anytime.

I have stated in the past and still believe to this day that training for your CHL should be required end of story, states like AZ, or AK, that require no training are just scary, IMO. I don't want to take people's right to carry away, but on the other hand training is important and a single 4-8hr class can accomplish this IMO, or military training, but people really should have some training before the get a CHL. (I know this may piss some people off but so be it)

V6....this place is an info tank...good info bad info...it's all here. Take all the information from it you can..because even the bad info is helpfull.

Yes, if I could only tell the future. If I came across as a doofus fool, maybe you should have helped slightly with something more substantial than a sarcastic remark, considering you may have much knowledge and experience in the tactical training arena. And, here is a quote I saw on your site: "The sword is more important than the shield, and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental." –– John Steinbeck I'm sure there are other "tactics" and tools to use in conjunction with a sharp, alert mind besides having to carry a heavy clunk of a gun everywhere; in which, I have previously stated I do utiilize other devices/weapons along with certain training and my brain, besides a gun in the rare times I don't carry to certain places. My priorities may be different from yours, as I try to avoid any circumstances (i.e. using the atm at night if I didn't have to), de-escalation and/or evasion, fight/shoot/utilize whatever tools effectively to stop threat. I never mention anything about predicting the future or not carrying to certain places because I predicted that the place is as safe as heaven. Instead of carrying a gun, I opted to rely on other choice of weapons when going to certain places. Does not mean the gun is 'end all be all' definitive piece of equipment you can rely on at any one circumstances, taking in environment, location, other variables.

Regarding someone else's reply mentioning I may have gotten lucky thus far walking around my area..I think you may have misread thinking I don't CCW. I did mention that I carry when I walk out the door and encounter all walks of life around my area.. what I specifically was pointing out was that I don't over-react and get all jittery jumping for my gun at every chance someone walks by or looks at me funny as some of the posts I've read elsewhere in the forums.

I originally joined arfcom because of ARs, but recently have wandered into the handgun subforums to learn anything I can about holsters/belts, carry tips, and possibly real life experiences and stories. I've read many helpful posts and topics. And I've also read some that made me scratch me head thinking if some of these people should be CCW, leading me to post this topic...and I knew I will get some flack for it. What actually started all this was not too long ago, a friend of mine overheard some young folks chatting at some party/event that they just bought a gun and gonna get CHL so they can start carrying it around, almost bragging, like "hey, look how cool I am cuz I have a gun and license to carry it...don't eff with me cuz I will mess you up" kind of attitude. So, after some time and now reading some posts about eager twitchy hands jumping for the gun at any chance just threw me over the edge to post and rant about some of these CCWers.

eta: tommytomaso, I concur with what you said.

No. Such. Thing.

How do you know you will not need it?





It sure seems like in your other post you can predict the future.

So...you admittedly just went off in a rant and basically insulted people who carry at church without knowing ANY facts about the subject? Youll go real far here with knee jerk unfounded reactions.
How about more reading and less ranting? A couple posts up you lambast Texas Tactical for not "helping you". Ever stop to think it may be the "know it all judgemental" attitude that you strode in here with? Why would anyone waste their time trying to "educate" someone who just came into our house and told us how the cow ate the cabbage- 98% of which being BS anyways. Education starts with a receptive attitude, if you want an education I suggest you adjust your attitude accordingly.

So since you know the future what is tomorrows winning lottery ticket?
If I thought that I NEEDED a gun, id bring a rifle or stay away/home.

Im with you that SOME people are wound up a little tight and some posts in here make me do a but thats pretty low on my scale of things to worry about.

A church isn't some holy protected place where shootings don't happen.

A simple google search should be all the convincing for anyone.

Exactly. Do folks really think the criminals aren't smart enough to go where they can expect the least resistance?

.

Low post count. Check.

Thanks Fury that was the sentence that caught my eye and what my post was related too.

V6PWR, you are correct people can act too paranoid. As the old joke goes It's not really paranoia if they really are out to get you."
I apologize for using sarcasm to try to make my point. No place is 100% safe 100% of the time. Unfortunately we won't know when it is not safe until its not safe.

I commend you for carrying other weapons and getting training. I think most of us are trying to help you make that final leap to realize this world can be a dangerous place and we don't get to choose when and where we are safe. We all have to make our own decisions when and where to carry. I personally carry anywhere I can....and sometimes I might even carry places I'm not supposed to, that is also a choice between percieved risk and legalities. Good Luck and keep training.

The idiots that you share the road with everyday are a much greater threat to you and your family than the Zimmermans of the world.

TLDR. Use proper structure first.

+1 This... Carrying a weapon is the only way they can feel like a man.

Second - Church is a very dangerous place. Lots of cash and a little ole secretary to take care of it. Then there is the good reverend who has been counseling some one through a tough situation and their spouse goes nuts. Oh, and now there are some goofy f-ing rads out there that seem to be shooting priests and kids. - So, yeah... I carry on Sunday.

WERD.

Thanks Mike for reading my post through and through, and thanks for some solid info. Practice and training are always evolving, so it can never end
It appears most comments stem from where I mention about not carrying in certain places and they just stop there to give there .02 without analyzing further and realizing I rely on other weapons in those instances. True, a gun is a devastating piece of machinery. And again, this may just be my training, but don't think it is the only tool you'll ever need for every type of job. If it malfunction for whatever ungodly reason in the darkess second, and/or the CHLer is not trained to use it effectively or maintain control of the situation, valuble seconds can pass that determines life or death. this might be a repost somewhere, but check this out:
quick disarm
So, how do I know I will not need it? If you finished reading the whole sentence I explained how. If you know how the relative's house is structured and how I park, then maybe I believe you have a point. But, you don't..and, to me,with regards to the surrounding area of how the house is laid and in the tight confines from my car to the door, and vice versa, there's better, more maneuverable and effective tool I have in my hand during the transition than a gun will be.
I apologize if I offended anyone on here that may have taken it wrong thinking I have something against CCW or all carriers, but, as I've mention numerous times..my early rant was directed to SOME CHLers that are a bit screwy that may need to be assessed if they should carry or need to have further training or mentally responsible enough to CCW. Have a good night.

All you explained was what other weapons you carry instead of a gun. How does that explain how you knew you wouldn't need a gun?



Only an idiot will be that close to let someone take their gun away from them.(quick disarm video)

Only if you live will knowing the layout of a place be more effective than you would having a gun.

Are you mentally prepared to take someones life regardless of gender and age?

"SOME CHLers that are a bit screwy that may need to be assessed if they should carry or need to have further training or mentally responsible enough to CCW. "

Fury, I grew up in a very bad town 1.5 hrs from Houston, where gang and crime activities are like the movies. Going through elemtentary school, I already had my share of fighting off hoodlums. While walking home from school, 3 guys much bigger than me decided to try and shove my little cousin into an alley and rob her of the gold necklace...without hesitation, I laid it down on 2 of them and they split quick without getting what they wanted. From there, along with going through middle and high school had my fair shares of racial fights (most of the blacks would gang together to beat any asian kid they could find on campus, or even the streets; with them having pipes, 2x4's, knives..some of the asian kids had guns) and luckily came out of that mess of a public education battle ground alive. I've seen loved ones die in front of my eyes. I've been around drive-by's, people getting gunned down in front of my aunt's store, helping save innocent bystanders that were randomly shot, home invasions happening all around the neighborhood every other week..so, I know a thing or two about violence and crime growing up. Now, moving to a big city and being a doctor to help people..I still see people dying/dead. Having some background training in MMA, close quarters combat, de-escalation/avoidance techniques and evasion training, learning to skillfully use all the different types of weapons I own, I can say I have no hesitation putting down a threat to my family or myself, regardless of gender or age.
That vid was just a sample to show you that even with a gun..if you don't know how to use it effectively or train in close quarters how to position or zone yourself from the suspect (for people who draw but hesitate to shoot), it can easily be taken from you (or from the threat) at any split second. You are right, only an idiot will be that close...and if they were that close (only way to get to me between the space of the car and the wall of the house by door) there's my kabar already in hand where it's more maneuverable and stealthy, along with fist full of keys to strike vital areas to paralyze and/or put down the threat in a split second. any further away from that zone and I would have already spotted them coming and I'd much rather run them over or evade in the car. I'd also like to wrestle with my nephews and neices, without have the HK poke on my back or may have the slightest chance somehow AD while playing rough with them. Their hands can go anywhere quick..and a gun is not something you want them grabbing...it almost happened once while wrestling with them..along with their father having a few select firearms strategically hidden and locked in his house, in case things go bad. I initially did carry going over there, but after that close call with all the kids around, these are MY reasonings why I didn't need to carry going to his house, but I do carry everywhere as much as possible. I cannot predict the future, but being aware and planning (along with training ready to be used if needed) comes close to having a safe outcome.
Thanks everyone for commenting, positive or negative, and I think most people got off track of my point that some people need to have more training to be alert but not overreactive and jump for the gun at any chance. Have to be calm and collective to think straight!

Yep.

I can't read the OP's posts. Just see a blurry wall of text.

agreed

seems everyone has to put "ah-ha" almsot gotcha stories on the interwebs...

that said, one shoudl carry in church imo...imo, carry your fucking gun whereever youre able to

the gun is not the answer, but maybe an answer...

just b/c it hasnt happened "yet" doesnt mean that it wont.

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