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Draco SBR form 1 question
9/12/2011 6:53:51 PM
I'm sending my form 1 for my Draco C and have a question on item 4 (a) description of firearm... should I use Draco C and the importer (century) name and town or the manufacture in Romania???
9/12/2011 7:58:41 PM
4a= Romarm / Cugir Romania
4b= SBR ( I also add "922r compliant" here)
4c= 7.62 x 39mm
4d= Draco C
4h= CAI Georgia, VT (I also add name (or trust name),city and state here -as engraved)
Hello Miami- Ft. Lauderdale here...
4b= SBR ( I also add "922r compliant" here)
4c= 7.62 x 39mm
4d= Draco C
4h= CAI Georgia, VT (I also add name (or trust name),city and state here -as engraved)
Hello Miami- Ft. Lauderdale here...
9/12/2011 8:04:35 PM
Originally Posted By Dferg10:
4a= Romarm / Cugir Romania
4b= SBR ( I add "922r compliant" here to)
4c= 7.62 x 39mm
4d= Draco C
4h= CAI Georgia, VT (I also name (or trust name),city and state here (as engraved))
Hello Miami- Ft. Lauderdale here...
4a= Romarm / Cugir Romania
4b= SBR ( I add "922r compliant" here to)
4c= 7.62 x 39mm
4d= Draco C
4h= CAI Georgia, VT (I also name (or trust name),city and state here (as engraved))
Hello Miami- Ft. Lauderdale here...
Tag - Me wants to SBR a Draco as well; very useful; thanks.
9/12/2011 8:06:44 PM
Originally Posted By Dferg10:
4a= Romarm / Cugir Romania
4b= SBR ( I also add "922r compliant" here)
4c= 7.62 x 39mm
4d= Draco C
4h= CAI Georgia, VT (I also add name (or trust name),city and state here -as engraved)
Hello Miami- Ft. Lauderdale here...
4a= Romarm / Cugir Romania
4b= SBR ( I also add "922r compliant" here)
4c= 7.62 x 39mm
4d= Draco C
4h= CAI Georgia, VT (I also add name (or trust name),city and state here -as engraved)
Hello Miami- Ft. Lauderdale here...
leave the trust name, city, and state out of block 4h, it doesn't belong there.
9/12/2011 8:15:05 PM
Originally Posted By hellbound:
leave the trust name, city, and state out of block 4h, it doesn't belong there.
Originally Posted By Dferg10:
4a= Romarm / Cugir Romania
4b= SBR ( I also add "922r compliant" here)
4c= 7.62 x 39mm
4d= Draco C
4h= CAI Georgia, VT (I also add name (or trust name),city and state here -as engraved)
Hello Miami- Ft. Lauderdale here...
4a= Romarm / Cugir Romania
4b= SBR ( I also add "922r compliant" here)
4c= 7.62 x 39mm
4d= Draco C
4h= CAI Georgia, VT (I also add name (or trust name),city and state here -as engraved)
Hello Miami- Ft. Lauderdale here...
leave the trust name, city, and state out of block 4h, it doesn't belong there.
That's your opinion. Form 1 question 4h states "Additional Description (Include all numbers and other identifying data which will appear on the firearm)". You do what you want, but on my firearm I have my name city and state engraved on it and my reading of plain English leads me to conclude it belongs there. Although your analysis is comprehensive and well thought out, I disagree with you.
I am not saying a form will get kicked back for leaving it off.
9/12/2011 8:20:14 PM
I left the import info out on mine and out my maker info. Ultimately I think it's fine either way, or else youd have to put every little tick mark on the thing there.
9/12/2011 8:20:26 PM
Originally Posted By Dferg10:
That's your opinion. Form 1 question 4h states "Additional Description (Include all numbers and other identifying data which will appear on the firearm)". You do what you want, but on my firearm I have my name city and state engraved on it and my reading of plain English leads me to conclude it belongs there. Although your analysis is comprehensive and well thought out, I disagree with you.
Originally Posted By hellbound:
leave the trust name, city, and state out of block 4h, it doesn't belong there.
Originally Posted By Dferg10:
4a= Romarm / Cugir Romania
4b= SBR ( I also add "922r compliant" here)
4c= 7.62 x 39mm
4d= Draco C
4h= CAI Georgia, VT (I also add name (or trust name),city and state here -as engraved)
Hello Miami- Ft. Lauderdale here...
4a= Romarm / Cugir Romania
4b= SBR ( I also add "922r compliant" here)
4c= 7.62 x 39mm
4d= Draco C
4h= CAI Georgia, VT (I also add name (or trust name),city and state here -as engraved)
Hello Miami- Ft. Lauderdale here...
leave the trust name, city, and state out of block 4h, it doesn't belong there.
That's your opinion. Form 1 question 4h states "Additional Description (Include all numbers and other identifying data which will appear on the firearm)". You do what you want, but on my firearm I have my name city and state engraved on it and my reading of plain English leads me to conclude it belongs there. Although your analysis is comprehensive and well thought out, I disagree with you.
my opinion mirrors what Tony_K has said as well. that box is for additional descriptions such as importer marks, a picture, etc. maker marks are based off of your name and address. adding them into 4h is redundant and unnecessary, it is assumed that your firearm will already contain these marks as they are legally required.
it also adds a level of confusion. for example, people believing that they can abbreviate their trust or city name, and since it's in 4h it implies that the ATF has legally created a variance for the maker's marks where none exists.
i have 6 SBRs, the only one with 4h populated is the GSG5 with "ATI Rochester NY"
9/12/2011 8:26:55 PM
Originally Posted By hellbound:
my opinion mirrors what Tony_K has said as well. that box is for additional descriptions such as importer marks, a picture, etc. maker marks are based off of your name and address. adding them into 4h is redundant and unnecessary, it is assumed that your firearm will already contain these marks as they are legally required.
it also adds a level of confusion. for example, people believing that they can abbreviate their trust or city name, and since it's in 4h it implies that the ATF has legally created a variance for the maker's marks where none exists.
i have 6 SBRs, the only one with 4h populated is the GSG5 with "ATI Rochester NY"
Originally Posted By Dferg10:
That's your opinion. Form 1 question 4h states "Additional Description (Include all numbers and other identifying data which will appear on the firearm)". You do what you want, but on my firearm I have my name city and state engraved on it and my reading of plain English leads me to conclude it belongs there. Although your analysis is comprehensive and well thought out, I disagree with you.
Originally Posted By hellbound:
leave the trust name, city, and state out of block 4h, it doesn't belong there.
Originally Posted By Dferg10:
4a= Romarm / Cugir Romania
4b= SBR ( I also add "922r compliant" here)
4c= 7.62 x 39mm
4d= Draco C
4h= CAI Georgia, VT (I also add name (or trust name),city and state here -as engraved)
Hello Miami- Ft. Lauderdale here...
4a= Romarm / Cugir Romania
4b= SBR ( I also add "922r compliant" here)
4c= 7.62 x 39mm
4d= Draco C
4h= CAI Georgia, VT (I also add name (or trust name),city and state here -as engraved)
Hello Miami- Ft. Lauderdale here...
leave the trust name, city, and state out of block 4h, it doesn't belong there.
That's your opinion. Form 1 question 4h states "Additional Description (Include all numbers and other identifying data which will appear on the firearm)". You do what you want, but on my firearm I have my name city and state engraved on it and my reading of plain English leads me to conclude it belongs there. Although your analysis is comprehensive and well thought out, I disagree with you.
my opinion mirrors what Tony_K has said as well. that box is for additional descriptions such as importer marks, a picture, etc. maker marks are based off of your name and address. adding them into 4h is redundant and unnecessary, it is assumed that your firearm will already contain these marks as they are legally required.
it also adds a level of confusion. for example, people believing that they can abbreviate their trust or city name, and since it's in 4h it implies that the ATF has legally created a variance for the maker's marks where none exists.
i have 6 SBRs, the only one with 4h populated is the GSG5 with "ATI Rochester NY"
I hear you and I disagree. I stand by my contention that a plain reading of the text of 4h says it does belong there. The fact that someone might get confused because they put the information there is not persuasive to me at all and does not address the text of 4h. I am not saying I am an expert, just my interpretaion of very mirky waters. I have left it off and been approved before, but I include it now and will continue to do so until shown authority to the contrary.
9/12/2011 11:08:17 PM
Originally Posted By Dferg10:
4a= Romarm / Cugir Romania
4b= SBR ( I also add "922r compliant" here)
4c= 7.62 x 39mm
4d= Draco C
4h= CAI Georgia, VT (I also add name (or trust name),city and state here -as engraved)
Hello Miami- Ft. Lauderdale here...
4a= Romarm / Cugir Romania
4b= SBR ( I also add "922r compliant" here)
4c= 7.62 x 39mm
4d= Draco C
4h= CAI Georgia, VT (I also add name (or trust name),city and state here -as engraved)
Hello Miami- Ft. Lauderdale here...
Thanks brotha... two last questions, on 4b why add 922r compliant??? and do I need to send form 5330.20??
9/13/2011 10:56:30 AM
Originally Posted By MiamiSniper:
Thanks brotha... two last questions, on 4b why add 922r compliant??? and do I need to send form 5330.20??
Originally Posted By Dferg10:
4a= Romarm / Cugir Romania
4b= SBR ( I also add "922r compliant" here)
4c= 7.62 x 39mm
4d= Draco C
4h= CAI Georgia, VT (I also add name (or trust name),city and state here -as engraved)
Hello Miami- Ft. Lauderdale here...
4a= Romarm / Cugir Romania
4b= SBR ( I also add "922r compliant" here)
4c= 7.62 x 39mm
4d= Draco C
4h= CAI Georgia, VT (I also add name (or trust name),city and state here -as engraved)
Hello Miami- Ft. Lauderdale here...
Thanks brotha... two last questions, on 4b why add 922r compliant??? and do I need to send form 5330.20??
You do not need to put 922r compliant in response to 4b or anywhere elese on the form. In fact there is debate over whether 922r does or should apply to a foreign made pistol made into an SBR via form 1 or any othe NFA item. I went ahead and dropped in a Tapco G2 fcg, along with a US muzzle device, US rail, and US stock for 922r compliance, but there are those who do not bother. Again, you do not need 922r in response to 4b, that is just what I do hoping to avoid any possible delay.
Yes- you need to send in 1 completed form 5330.20 along with your 2 completed (2 sided) form 1s and two fingerprint cards.
9/14/2011 10:06:20 AM
Originally Posted By Dferg10:
You do not need to put 922r compliant in response to 4b or anywhere elese on the form. In fact there is debate over whether 922r does or should apply to a foreign made pistol made into an SBR via form 1 or any othe NFA item. I went ahead and dropped in a Tapco G2 fcg, along with a US muzzle device, US rail, and US stock for 922r compliance, but there are those who do not bother. Again, you do not need 922r in response to 4b, that is just what I do hoping to avoid any possible delay.
Yes- you need to send in 1 completed form 5330.20 along with your 2 completed (2 sided) form 1s and two fingerprint cards.
Originally Posted By MiamiSniper:
Thanks brotha... two last questions, on 4b why add 922r compliant??? and do I need to send form 5330.20??
Originally Posted By Dferg10:
4a= Romarm / Cugir Romania
4b= SBR ( I also add "922r compliant" here)
4c= 7.62 x 39mm
4d= Draco C
4h= CAI Georgia, VT (I also add name (or trust name),city and state here -as engraved)
Hello Miami- Ft. Lauderdale here...
4a= Romarm / Cugir Romania
4b= SBR ( I also add "922r compliant" here)
4c= 7.62 x 39mm
4d= Draco C
4h= CAI Georgia, VT (I also add name (or trust name),city and state here -as engraved)
Hello Miami- Ft. Lauderdale here...
Thanks brotha... two last questions, on 4b why add 922r compliant??? and do I need to send form 5330.20??
You do not need to put 922r compliant in response to 4b or anywhere elese on the form. In fact there is debate over whether 922r does or should apply to a foreign made pistol made into an SBR via form 1 or any othe NFA item. I went ahead and dropped in a Tapco G2 fcg, along with a US muzzle device, US rail, and US stock for 922r compliance, but there are those who do not bother. Again, you do not need 922r in response to 4b, that is just what I do hoping to avoid any possible delay.
Yes- you need to send in 1 completed form 5330.20 along with your 2 completed (2 sided) form 1s and two fingerprint cards.
Man is this confusing or what???? I was just told that With a trust, the fingerprint cards, and pictures are not required....
9/14/2011 11:00:05 AM
Man is this confusing or what???? I was just told that With a trust, the fingerprint cards, and pictures are not required....
True, with a Trust, that documentation is not required.
9/14/2011 12:34:19 PM
Originally Posted By Spooky574:
Man is this confusing or what???? I was just told that With a trust, the fingerprint cards, and pictures are not required....
True, with a Trust, that documentation is not required.
Man is this confusing or what???? I was just told that With a trust, the fingerprint cards, and pictures are not required....
True, with a Trust, that documentation is not required.
Cool... so I need to send them (one) form 5330.20, (two) form 1s (double sided), a copy of my trust and a PMO for $200.00???? am I missing anything????
9/25/2011 10:50:13 PM
Originally Posted By MiamiSniper:
Cool... so I need to send them (one) form 5330.20, (two) form 1s (double sided), a copy of my trust and a PMO for $200.00???? am I missing anything????
Originally Posted By Spooky574:
Man is this confusing or what???? I was just told that With a trust, the fingerprint cards, and pictures are not required....
True, with a Trust, that documentation is not required.
Man is this confusing or what???? I was just told that With a trust, the fingerprint cards, and pictures are not required....
True, with a Trust, that documentation is not required.
Cool... so I need to send them (one) form 5330.20, (two) form 1s (double sided), a copy of my trust and a PMO for $200.00???? am I missing anything????
You also need to send:
Copy of Declaration of Trust
Copy of Schedule A
Copy of Assignment of Property, adding the SBR to the trust
Copy of Certification of Trust
9/26/2011 2:21:08 PM
Originally Posted By Dferg10:
4a= Romarm / Cugir Romania
4b= Short barreled rifle
4c= 7.62 x 39mm
4d= Draco
4h= left blank
4a= Romarm / Cugir Romania
4b= Short barreled rifle
4c= 7.62 x 39mm
4d= Draco
4h= left blank
This is how I did it, got it back 9/17. Not positive it is 'the' way, but it worked for mine.
PS- mine is not a 'C' model so obviously I left that off.
10/20/2011 9:26:21 AM
Originally Posted By hottnucks:
You also need to send:
Copy of Declaration of Trust
Copy of Schedule A
Copy of Assignment of Property, adding the SBR to the trust
Copy of Certification of Trust
Originally Posted By MiamiSniper:
Cool... so I need to send them (one) form 5330.20, (two) form 1s (double sided), a copy of my trust and a PMO for $200.00???? am I missing anything????
Originally Posted By Spooky574:
Man is this confusing or what???? I was just told that With a trust, the fingerprint cards, and pictures are not required....
True, with a Trust, that documentation is not required.
Man is this confusing or what???? I was just told that With a trust, the fingerprint cards, and pictures are not required....
True, with a Trust, that documentation is not required.
Cool... so I need to send them (one) form 5330.20, (two) form 1s (double sided), a copy of my trust and a PMO for $200.00???? am I missing anything????
You also need to send:
Copy of Declaration of Trust
Copy of Schedule A
Copy of Assignment of Property, adding the SBR to the trust
Copy of Certification of Trust
Isn't all that in the trust?
12/6/2011 7:55:35 PM
what are the waiting time this days?
12/6/2011 8:54:00 PM
5 Months
