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New ATF Pistol-to-rifle-and-back ruling. What does it mean for Draco's?
8/11/2011 2:47:33 PM
By now, I'm sure most of us are aware of this: http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf
Namely, the long-awaited clarification from the ATF, that pistols can have 16" barrels added, then take a stock, then be returned to pistols without being subject to NFA rules. This is for things like Thompson Center kits, the Beretta Neos .22 pistol carbine conversion kit, or the MechTec CCU's, or other aftermarket things like the 16" Glock barrels, and adapter stocks.
The question being, can you now add 6" of barrel extension and flash hider/muzzle brake WITHOUT blind pinning, welding, or high-temp silver solder, or a suppressor, and now a stock legal as long as the muzzle devices are on there, and went on first, and come off last?
I know it will require a lawyer and an ATF tech-branch letter to be sure, but I'm curious on everyone else's thoughts.
Namely, the long-awaited clarification from the ATF, that pistols can have 16" barrels added, then take a stock, then be returned to pistols without being subject to NFA rules. This is for things like Thompson Center kits, the Beretta Neos .22 pistol carbine conversion kit, or the MechTec CCU's, or other aftermarket things like the 16" Glock barrels, and adapter stocks.
The question being, can you now add 6" of barrel extension and flash hider/muzzle brake WITHOUT blind pinning, welding, or high-temp silver solder, or a suppressor, and now a stock legal as long as the muzzle devices are on there, and went on first, and come off last?
I know it will require a lawyer and an ATF tech-branch letter to be sure, but I'm curious on everyone else's thoughts.
8/11/2011 3:00:03 PM
if I read you right, you would be constructing an SBR, as the non-pinned extension is not part of the barrel. Once you add the stock, it's a short-barreled rifle.
8/11/2011 3:17:32 PM
Originally Posted By RyJones:
if I read you right, you would be constructing an SBR, as the non-pinned extension is not part of the barrel. Once you add the stock, it's a short-barreled rifle.
I would say your right, without it being a permanently attached muzzle device it would be SBR.if I read you right, you would be constructing an SBR, as the non-pinned extension is not part of the barrel. Once you add the stock, it's a short-barreled rifle.
8/11/2011 3:57:16 PM
Where they say this:
Makes me think you're right, unless a whole different barrel could go in (not possible with pressed trunnions etc.), extensions and muzzle devices don't count.
When
inserted, the pistol fires a projectile through a rifled extension barrel that is 16 inches or
more in length, and with an overall length of 26 inches or more. Other parts sets require
that certain parts of the pistol, such as the pistol barrel and the slide assembly, be removed
from the pistol frame prior to attaching the parts sets. Typically, a separate barrel is sold
with the parts set, which is 16 inches or greater in length. The barrel is installed along with
an accompanying shoulder stock.
inserted, the pistol fires a projectile through a rifled extension barrel that is 16 inches or
more in length, and with an overall length of 26 inches or more. Other parts sets require
that certain parts of the pistol, such as the pistol barrel and the slide assembly, be removed
from the pistol frame prior to attaching the parts sets. Typically, a separate barrel is sold
with the parts set, which is 16 inches or greater in length. The barrel is installed along with
an accompanying shoulder stock.
Makes me think you're right, unless a whole different barrel could go in (not possible with pressed trunnions etc.), extensions and muzzle devices don't count.
8/11/2011 4:15:40 PM
If you welded the muzzle device on, and then cut the weld later . No problems. Damn harsh of a way to convert back and forth.
8/12/2011 1:24:35 AM
to me what they are saying is if you take a pistol and add a 16inch or longer barrel and 26 inch oal then its ok to switch back to a pistol. whereas having to add a muzzle device to meet the 16ich rule is a whole different ball game. this falls under nfa rules which is something else entirely. then you are talking about sbr's and aow's. if dracos were easy to switch out entire barrel assemblies then you could accomplish this but since the barrels are pinned and riveted in this is not really practical.
9/20/2011 10:22:04 PM
so why not add this permanently attached with a tack weld then slap on a f.hider and buttstock??
http://www.cncwarrior.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=170
If i have a letter from joe shmoe selling me a custom ak bbl what is the difference? Anyone with a lathe and or other tools can fab up shit at home.
I ask as a Draco was offered to me today for a real good price.
http://www.cncwarrior.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=170
If i have a letter from joe shmoe selling me a custom ak bbl what is the difference? Anyone with a lathe and or other tools can fab up shit at home.
I ask as a Draco was offered to me today for a real good price.
9/25/2011 6:46:21 PM
Originally Posted By AJ_Dual:
By now, I'm sure most of us are aware of this: http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf
Namely, the long-awaited clarification from the ATF, that pistols can have 16" barrels added, then take a stock, then be returned to pistols without being subject to NFA rules. This is for things like Thompson Center kits, the Beretta Neos .22 pistol carbine conversion kit, or the MechTec CCU's, or other aftermarket things like the 16" Glock barrels, and adapter stocks.
By now, I'm sure most of us are aware of this: http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf
Namely, the long-awaited clarification from the ATF, that pistols can have 16" barrels added, then take a stock, then be returned to pistols without being subject to NFA rules. This is for things like Thompson Center kits, the Beretta Neos .22 pistol carbine conversion kit, or the MechTec CCU's, or other aftermarket things like the 16" Glock barrels, and adapter stocks.
"A firearm, as defined by the National Firearms Act (NFA), 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3), is made when unassembled parts are placed in close proximity
in such a way......"
"Some manufacturers produce firearm receivers and attachable component parts that are designed to be assembled into both rifles and pistols."
"Certain parts or parts sets are also designed to allow an individual to convert a pistol into a rifle without removing a barrel or attaching a shoulder stock to the pistol"
So - How long before ANY GUN. wth parts that can be changed without destruction becomes FEDERALLY CONTROLLABLE ?
What Fools they must believe we are.........................
.
9/26/2011 9:32:47 AM
so pretty much I can convert this back to a pistol If i wanted to....All i have to do is cut off the blind pin/welds and reinstall the pistol trunion?
9/27/2011 11:59:16 PM
Originally Posted By cfpkiller:
so pretty much I can convert this back to a pistol If i wanted to....All i have to do is cut off the blind pin/welds and reinstall the pistol trunion?
<a href="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/836/hpim3875.jpg/" target="_blank">http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/7325/hpim3875.jpg</a>
so pretty much I can convert this back to a pistol If i wanted to....All i have to do is cut off the blind pin/welds and reinstall the pistol trunion?
<a href="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/836/hpim3875.jpg/" target="_blank">http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/7325/hpim3875.jpg</a>
Theoretically but I wouldn't tell anyone if you were to. Just kinda pretend it was never a rifle. But honestly that's a lot of work just to turn it back to a pistol.
