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Saiga 12 Guage Pistol......
7/18/2011 11:09:18 AM
I was watching the season premiere of Sons of Guns the other night and at the beginning of the show the owner was test firing a Saiga 12 gauge pistol w/ a barrel not much longer than the Draco Mini.
I was wondering if this is something out on the market already or if this is just one of their custom jobs. If it was a production pistol then it would be an amazing piece to add to a collection IMO.
Just wanted to get folks ideas/thoughts/knowledge on this pistol.
I was wondering if this is something out on the market already or if this is just one of their custom jobs. If it was a production pistol then it would be an amazing piece to add to a collection IMO.
Just wanted to get folks ideas/thoughts/knowledge on this pistol.
7/18/2011 11:21:04 AM
It's a custom NFA SBS. One of the various gunsmiths who specialize in them, and are a Class III SOT can make one out of a regular Saiga 12 for you.
7/18/2011 11:30:27 AM
I imagine it can be made as a Title 1 pistol (non NFA) if you can get your hands on a virgin receiver (never made into a shotgun). Same rules would apply as they do with the Mares Leg, AR Pistols, Mini Draco, and other guns of this nature.
MadDog
MadDog
7/18/2011 11:47:03 AM
Originally Posted By MadDogDan:
I imagine it can be made as a Title 1 pistol (non NFA) if you can get your hands on a virgin receiver (never made into a shotgun). Same rules would apply as they do with the Mares Leg, AR Pistols, Mini Draco, and other guns of this nature.
MadDog
I imagine it can be made as a Title 1 pistol (non NFA) if you can get your hands on a virgin receiver (never made into a shotgun). Same rules would apply as they do with the Mares Leg, AR Pistols, Mini Draco, and other guns of this nature.
MadDog
Nope, x2
- Bore over 0.500" makes it a DD if rifled (factory S12's are smoothbore)
- "Handguns" cannot have smoothbore barrels
Same thing that killed the Taurus Raging Judge Magnum... (28ga)
7/18/2011 1:05:09 PM
RDTCU:
Thanks for the correction, forgot about that.
Stand Corrected,
MadDog
Thanks for the correction, forgot about that.
Stand Corrected,
MadDog
7/18/2011 4:41:34 PM
I hate all the NFA laws
7/18/2011 4:46:12 PM
Originally Posted By RDTCU:
Nope, x2
- Bore over 0.500" makes it a DD if rifled (factory S12's are smoothbore)
- "Handguns" cannot have smoothbore barrels
Same thing that killed the Taurus Raging Judge Magnum... (28ga)
Originally Posted By MadDogDan:
I imagine it can be made as a Title 1 pistol (non NFA) if you can get your hands on a virgin receiver (never made into a shotgun). Same rules would apply as they do with the Mares Leg, AR Pistols, Mini Draco, and other guns of this nature.
MadDog
I imagine it can be made as a Title 1 pistol (non NFA) if you can get your hands on a virgin receiver (never made into a shotgun). Same rules would apply as they do with the Mares Leg, AR Pistols, Mini Draco, and other guns of this nature.
MadDog
Nope, x2
- Bore over 0.500" makes it a DD if rifled (factory S12's are smoothbore)
- "Handguns" cannot have smoothbore barrels
Same thing that killed the Taurus Raging Judge Magnum... (28ga)
I thought a "virgin receiver" (good luck finding one though, LOL) would make it transfer on a $5 AOW stamp, like a Serbu super-shorty.
Although such a build, (again, no "virgin" Saiga 12 receivers are available), if you did it yourself, would cost $200 to make an AOW as yourself.
So they're all pretty much registered as Short Barreld Shotguns which transfer on the $200 tax, either from the SOT, or if you make it yourself.
7/18/2011 5:57:58 PM
According to RDTCU's findings it would register as a DD if you had a virgin receiver, but the cost of $200 would be the same. The process is also the same as an SBS. I turned a 37mm into a 40mm (Destructive Device) and it cost me $200 for the tax stamp. I guess I could try making one from a Saiga (that I do not have at this time) after my paperwork got spamped as an SBS.
MadDog
MadDog
7/18/2011 5:59:41 PM
Semi-auto and magazine fed is what would bump it up to DD?
Those are the only two functional differences between a Saiga pistol and a Serbu.
Those are the only two functional differences between a Saiga pistol and a Serbu.
7/18/2011 6:38:22 PM
Originally Posted By AJ_Dual:
Semi-auto and magazine fed is what would bump it up to DD?
Those are the only two functional differences between a Saiga pistol and a Serbu.
Semi-auto and magazine fed is what would bump it up to DD?
Those are the only two functional differences between a Saiga pistol and a Serbu.
I believe it's the "handgun with >1/2" bore that fires one round for each trigger pull" that could make it a DD, the SSS requires a pump between firings.
But the smooth barrel handgun aspect would make it an AOW.
Either one will cost you $200 to make yourself, but if it could be called an AOW, you could have one built then transferred for $5...
Nobody said the ATF "determinations" made any sense...
7/18/2011 7:26:42 PM
I really don't care about the $200 makers tax as I have over a dozen stamps so far (no AOW transfer, all makers stamps or transfers of suppressors) so far. I would just like to build one because nobody else has one (or at least not many do). My only problem would be to get it running correctly (gas wise) and would rather buy from someone who has already done the R&D on it.
MadDog
MadDog
7/18/2011 7:31:05 PM
Originally Posted By MadDogDan:
I really don't care about the $200 makers tax as I have over a dozen stamps so far (no AOW transfer, all makers stamps or transfers of suppressors) so far. I would just like to build one because nobody else has one (or at least not many do). My only problem would be to get it running correctly (gas wise) and would rather buy from someone who has already done the R&D on it.
MadDog
I really don't care about the $200 makers tax as I have over a dozen stamps so far (no AOW transfer, all makers stamps or transfers of suppressors) so far. I would just like to build one because nobody else has one (or at least not many do). My only problem would be to get it running correctly (gas wise) and would rather buy from someone who has already done the R&D on it.
MadDog
I really want a Tromix SBS with the folding skeleton stock....
7/18/2011 8:59:48 PM
If one takes a moment to notice the fact it's working from a MD 20 round drum*, AND working reliably** with cheap low-brass 12ga is pretty amazing. And a true testament to Tony Rumore's skill as a gunsmith. 
The other cool thing about SBS's is that with the fast pistol or "pistol-like" powders shotguns use, they suffer little in the velocity department from short barrels.
* (Not to denigrate the MD, the best drum, but a drum mag is just one more reliability challenge for a Saiga 12.)
** (As witnessed by multiple shells in the air.)
The other cool thing about SBS's is that with the fast pistol or "pistol-like" powders shotguns use, they suffer little in the velocity department from short barrels.
* (Not to denigrate the MD, the best drum, but a drum mag is just one more reliability challenge for a Saiga 12.)
** (As witnessed by multiple shells in the air.)
7/19/2011 11:01:30 AM
Originally Posted By AJ_Dual:
It's a custom NFA SBS.
It's a custom NFA SBS.
Thanks
7/19/2011 2:01:30 PM
Good luck on finding a "virgin Saiga receiver" that was never built as a shotgun. GARY N4KVE
7/21/2011 7:39:31 PM
Fold your own. And they would be AOWs.
9/9/2011 9:30:53 PM
Would it be possible to get an SOT to make a Saiga 12 pistol with a foregrip, that would qualify as an AOW?
That could be kinda neat.
That could be kinda neat.
9/10/2011 9:25:48 AM
I would think there is a market for an AOW Saiga 12 since some states, like Indiana, do not allow SBSs but do allow AOWs.
